Evolv-ing Thread

awsum140

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I pushed aside all of my Bluetooth 4.x and older and totally immersed myself with Bluetooth 5.x. But now I just read that BT5 is going to be obsolete and Bluetooth LE Audio is in. :facepalm:

I heard Bluetooth LE Audio is out and Bluetooth QRXTUVW is the best!
 
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TrollDragon

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I pushed aside all of my Bluetooth 4.x and older and totally immersed myself with Bluetooth 5.x. But now I just read that BT5 is going to be obsolete and Bluetooth LE Audio is in. :facepalm:
One day Bluetooth will be able to do CD quality audio, maybe with LE. :)
 

CMD-Ky

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Bluetooth protocol period is fading, "Black Leg" is approaching 3G speed and a range of 500 meters..

Yet another technology that I, hopefully, will never experience. I have wondered why I am always disappointed in wireless speakers or headphones. Maybe changing from teeth to legs would help.
 
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BillW50

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One day Bluetooth will be able to do CD quality audio, maybe with LE. :)
Before I got into Bluetooth, I've been using FM transmitters. In fact, I am using one right now and do on most days. Far more convenient than Bluetooth. They only have a frequency range of 20Hz to 15KHz. But the last time I checked my hearing, I could now only hear up to 11KHz anyway.

When I started, I quickly learned that there are lots of junk FM transmitters out there. I bought quite a few of them. But I found two manufactures that manufacture decent transmitters for about 100 bucks. One I am using right now has a 600 foot range. And my other favorite has a 2200 foot range (they guarantee a radius of 150 feet). How that one passed and got a FCC ID and an IC ID I'll never know.

What gets me about all of this wireless, my DJI quadcopters can transmit and receive a mile away complete with video. I live in a forest, so the range isn't the greatest. But others in a wide open area can get like a 5 mile range out of them. And they are using 2.4GHz and 5GHz. And my cell phone has a 10 mile range. So why is Bluetooth stuck with such short ranges?
 

awsum140

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The transmitting power of Bluetooth is extremely low, probably under 100 milliwatts, hence the short range on a, basically, UHF signal. It was designed that way. Your RC transmitters can probably run up to 5 watts plus you have the advantage of height adding range. A cell phone is at least a watt but transmits to cell towers where the antenna height and gain make a significant difference.

Edit - Forgot to mention that the antenna on a Bluetooth device is pretty bad and has lots of loss, rather than the gain of even a simple 1/4 wave whip like on your RC gear.
 

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Bluetooth was designed as a short range communication – long range was never part of the design. It is also designed to be backwards compatible. This alone hinders its advancement. Should the next version of BT break this, for the sake of improved audio or long range communication, there would be huge public outcry.

We have the tech to get red book or even higher quality wireless audio, but it’s the public's dependency on legacy products that makes it difficult to release this tech. I personally feel BT will eventually be replaced. When…I have no idea.
 

BillW50

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The transmitting power of Bluetooth is extremely low, probably under 100 milliwatts, hence the short range on a, basically, UHF signal. It was designed that way. Your RC transmitters can probably run up to 5 watts plus you have the advantage of height adding range. A cell phone is at least a watt but transmits to cell towers where the antenna height and gain make a significant difference.
Personal FM transmitters are limited to 25mW. My DJI quads are limited to 50mW. While Bluetooth is limited to 2.5mW (before BT5). So what is the limit for WiFi?
Edit - Forgot to mention that the antenna on a Bluetooth device is pretty bad and has lots of loss, rather than the gain of even a simple 1/4 wave whip like on your RC gear.
My Aluratek Bluetooth transmitter uses 1/4 wave whip antennas. But the range isn't any better than any other Bluetooth transmitter. Best buy advertised this one as having a 300 foot range. Plus one of the claims of Bluetooth 5 is of having a 500 foot range. I now have quite a few BT5 transmitters and they all get about 30 feet and that is it, regardless of their antenna.
 

awsum140

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Even if the tranmitter has a "gain" antenna, keep in mind the gain of a 1/4 wave whip with no ground plane is effectively zero, you're still stuck with a loss antenna at the receiver end. I looked at the BT specs and they can be up to 100 mW for BT1 with every version thereafter decreasing the power.
 

BillW50

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Bluetooth was designed as a short range communication – long range was never part of the design. It is also designed to be backwards compatible. This alone hinders its advancement. Should the next version of BT break this, for the sake of improved audio or long range communication, there would be huge public outcry.

We have the tech to get red book or even higher quality wireless audio, but it’s the public's dependency on legacy products that makes it difficult to release this tech. I personally feel BT will eventually be replaced. When…I have no idea.
Well BT5 doubled the bandwidth and supposedly quadrupled the range. The specs of Bluetooth LE Audio isn't finalized yet, so who knows there.
 
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BillW50

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Even if the tranmitter has a "gain" antenna, keep in mind the gain of a 1/4 wave whip with no ground plane is effectively zero, you're still stuck with a loss antenna at the receiver end. I looked at the BT specs and they can be up to 100 mW for BT1 with every version thereafter decreasing the power.
Oh I got 2.5mW from my watts to dBm chart and it says BT is 4dBm or 2.5mW. But 100mW is huge! Yeah that ground plane is a big deal. Although back when I had a fiberglass boat, the marine radio worked pretty well. About an easy 25 mile range if I remember right.
 
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awsum140

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Yeah, but that marine radio had a 25 watt, or so, transmitter. Ocean or even lake use is basically line of sight, too, no obstructions to speak of.

To give you perspective on the advantages of height. I used to do some work in the WTC, pre 2001. From the 72nd floor, south side, I used to chat through a repeater in Toms River, NJ. The antenna height at the repeater was about 100 feet above sea level. I was using VHF at .5 watts and had a dead, full quieting, signal in Toms River.
 

TrollDragon

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Before I got into Bluetooth, I've been using FM transmitters. In fact, I am using one right now and do on most days. Far more convenient than Bluetooth. They only have a frequency range of 20Hz to 15KHz. But the last time I checked my hearing, I could now only hear up to 11KHz anyway.

When I started, I quickly learned that there are lots of junk FM transmitters out there. I bought quite a few of them. But I found two manufactures that manufacture decent transmitters for about 100 bucks. One I am using right now has a 600 foot range. And my other favorite has a 2200 foot range (they guarantee a radius of 150 feet). How that one passed and got a FCC ID and an IC ID I'll never know.

What gets me about all of this wireless, my DJI quadcopters can transmit and receive a mile away complete with video. I live in a forest, so the range isn't the greatest. But others in a wide open area can get like a 5 mile range out of them. And they are using 2.4GHz and 5GHz. And my cell phone has a 10 mile range. So why is Bluetooth stuck with such short ranges?
Those FM transmitters are all analog, there is no audio compression or latency involved with them like there is with Bluetooth.

If you plug the FM transmitter into the audio out of your TV the remote receiver will play the audio in sync with the video everytime. If you use a pair of Bluetooth headphones or earphones that only support SBC the video and audio will be so out of sync that it will be completely unwatchable.

t1m3-4.jpg
 

dwcraig1

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Well the remote I ordered for my newly acquired sound bar is out in the mail box. I'm using it with BT though it has a few other inputs. The sub woofer is wireless, is that FM?. I'm guessing that the remote is IR.
The Ebay remote shipped from the zip code that starts 7 blocks from here so I received it real fast.
 

BillW50

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Those FM transmitters are all analog, there is no audio compression or latency involved with them like there is with Bluetooth.

If you plug the FM transmitter into the audio out of your TV the remote receiver will play the audio in sync with the video everytime. If you use a pair of Bluetooth headphones or earphones that only support SBC the video and audio will be so out of sync that it will be completely unwatchable.

t1m3-4.jpg
Oh there is a tiny bit of latency. As the TX has to convert audio to frequency modulation. Then the RX has to convert it back to audio. But the delay is so little, you're probably won't even know it is there. It is far better than Bluetooth for sure though. Even better than BT aptX Low Latency which I do have. I think it is part of BT5 specs too. At least BT5 all seem to have it anyway.

Frequency Modulation.gif
 

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