Evolv-ing Thread

[stylemessiah]

Should say I have *some* sympathy for genuine atty makers. I say some because if they priced their products at a reasonable level above what China can produce and what the market in general finds affordable, then no one would buy the clones...simples

Only clone Ive ever bought was arguably one of the best..the SJMY KF 5...I remember Daniels review of it, where he commented the threading on the clone was better than the genuine... only reinforced my intention to buy it, rather than sell a kidney and buy a genuine from SM...SM really need to readjust their reality, and hopefully everyone else will follow suit, because to me at least, SM is the whole reason other makers charge unicorn prices on tanks...

Charge me a premium, I'll gladly pay it, but make it a reasonable premium

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[TrollDragon]

I guess we knew this would happen eventually. $25.89 JuggerKnot Styled RTA Rebuildable Tank Atomizer - 4/6ml / 304 stainless steel / 24mm diameter at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping

This tank was designed by a Canadian company & made in China, they were selling it for around $100 Canadian Dollars.
Now you can get it for $25 US dollars @ FT, The Kicker is, it's still made in China so the quality should be identical to the original!

I was this close to pulling the trigger on a Juggerknot, now I'll just grab that one from FT instead. The quality will definitely not be the same as the authentic even though they are both Chi-Nee made, but functionally is should be just as good.

 

[TrollDragon]

Should say I have *some* sympathy for genuine atty makers. I say some because if they priced their products at a reasonable level above what China can produce and what the market in general finds affordable, then no one would buy the clones...simples

Only clone Ive ever bought was arguably one of the best..the SJMY KF 5...I remember Daniels review of it, where he commented the threading on the clone was better than the genuine... oy reinforced my intention to buy, rather than sell a kidney and buy a genuine from SM...SM really need to readjust their reality, and hopefully everyone else will follow suit, because to me at least, SM is the whole reason other makers charge unicorn prices on tanks...

Charge me a premium, I'll gladly pay it, but make it a reasonable premium

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A lot of those HEMO attys and mods are investments/status. Saw this a while back in a Squonk sales group, the M Atty by MEB mods...

Some stuff you just can't easily get and there are those that will pay the coin to have it.

 

[stylemessiah]

A lot of those HEMO attys and mods are investments/status. Saw this a while back in a Squonk sales group, the M Atty by MEB mods...

Some stuff you just can't easily get and there are those that will pay the coin to have it.

View attachment 750125

H R Puffinstuff! (my version of that common religious utterance)

That is ridiculous...I'd need it to perform a sexual act upon my person, and cook a nice roast every day for that money

Fudge me, he wanted postage on top...lol


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[Steamer861]

Charge me a premium, I'll gladly pay it, but make it a reasonable premium

Availability! also comes into play. Some manufactures make limited runs & availability becomes a problem. This fuels the clone market.

Look at the BB, They were imposable to acquire until the clones hit.
Then it was a lot easier to get an Authentic.

The quality will definitely not be the same as the authentic

I highly doubt that! The original was made in China also.
I have an original K-F Lite Plus, made in Germany & the clones were all most perfect copies.
I'm sure they will reproduce a China product to perfection.

 

[stylemessiah]

Availability! also comes into play. Some manufactures make limited runs & availability becomes a problem. This fuels the clone market.

Look at the BB, They were imposable to acquire until the clones hit.
Then it was a lot easier to get an Authentic.



I highly doubt that! The original was made in China also.
I have an original K-F Lite Plus, made in Germany & the clones were all most perfect copies.
I'm sure they will reproduce a China product to perfection.

Yup those BB clones are another good example of clones taking the exclusivity status away from mod toffs...

Thought I saw reference recently to the latest model of the original BB being the last...

If true I do worry about someone I know (@Krisma) who is the kween of BB's in Australia (and possibly the world) and makes resin panels etc for them, if they do stop production she'll need to go on suicide watch...and I don't consider her a mod toff, just one of the nicest and most generous people's...and passionate about her fairy boxes (what I call BB's, as I once told her that since I didn't understand how they work they must have fairies in them)

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[CMD-Ky]

There was a time when I was interested in a BB. I ran out of steam with the whole "stand in line and beg" philosophy of marketing, never got one and on't have a clone.

Availability! also comes into play. Some manufactures make limited runs & availability becomes a problem. This fuels the clone market.

Look at the BB, They were imposable to acquire until the clones hit.
Then it was a lot easier to get an Authentic.



I highly doubt that! The original was made in China also.
I have an original K-F Lite Plus, made in Germany & the clones were all most perfect copies.
I'm sure they will reproduce a China product to perfection.

 

[SlickWilly]

Should say I have *some* sympathy for genuine atty makers. I say some because if they priced their products at a reasonable level above what China can produce and what the market in general finds affordable, then no one would buy the clones...simples

Only clone Ive ever bought was arguably one of the best..the SJMY KF 5...I remember Daniels review of it, where he commented the threading on the clone was better than the genuine... only reinforced my intention to buy it, rather than sell a kidney and buy a genuine from SM...SM really need to readjust their reality, and hopefully everyone else will follow suit, because to me at least, SM is the whole reason other makers charge unicorn prices on tanks...

Charge me a premium, I'll gladly pay it, but make it a reasonable premium

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Who knows, a year from now China clones "could" cost more, tariffs... Once the need for China's cooperation with North Korea is no longer needed, well...

BTW, did you hear about yesterday's supreme court ruling on buying across state lines and businesses having to collect sales tax? Supreme Court Widens Reach of Sales Tax for Online Retailers

 

[stylemessiah]

Who knows, a year from now China clones "could" cost more, tariffs... Once the need for China's cooperation with North Korea is no longer needed, well...

BTW, did you hear about yesterday's supreme court ruling on buying across state lines and businesses having to collect sales tax? Supreme Court Widens Reach of Sales Tax for Online Retailers

We've just gotten a new 10% overseas online purchase tax because mainly 1 whinging local Aussie retail king whined to the government about having to compete with online purchases, and the gutless wonders in parliament decided to back him and help him protect his chain stores....
Needless to say that a lot of us weren't shopping there long before this, but definitely won't be now

So eBay/Amazon are the largest sites that collect the tax at checkout, but supposedly all online stores are supposed to slug Aussies and turn the tax over to the Aussie Govt. Like that's going to work...if it did well, if you've ever seen us Aussies comment on the horrendous freight charges we get gouged buying from overseas, you can bet this wouldn't make us any happier.

Fricking governments, keep jacking up taxes...does the standard of living improve..no, do their paypackets improve...yes. Time to think about overthrowing the .......s globally.

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[ShamrockPat]

Ive been underwhelmed by every top airflow tank Ive ever purchased

Yup, every last one.

about a month ago the insulator on the 510 pin of my Serpent SMM

Loudest RTA I've ever owned, and not as flavorful as the Serpent Mini 25. This one has caused my self imposed buying ban for an atty with a reviewer's name attached.

Only clone Ive ever bought was arguably one of the best..the SJMY KF 5

If it's good enough for China to clone, I'll try one before trying an original now. I bought 2 Hadaly clones before getting an Original. Clones now sold.
@Steamer861 Look at Odis, they made a BB bridge called the Flow. It was such a solid product (they had a special link just for returns/service) and now the word Flow doesn't even show up with a search (and China never cloned it)

 

[awsum140]

The whole Internet tax scheme is kind of like taking money out of our right pocket as well as the left pocket. A local talk show host calls it the "vig" the Government gets for letting us engage in commerce. Sound fair to me, NOT!!!!!! or more like A Tony Soprano thing.

 

[stylemessiah]

Loudest RTA I've ever owned, and not as flavorful as the Serpent Mini 25. This one has caused my self imposed buying ban for an atty with a reviewer's name attached.

If it's good enough for China to clone, I'll try one before trying an original now. I bought 2 Hadaly clones before getting an Original. Clones now sold.
[)

Hehe SMM loudest you've owned...you never had the Crown V1 then, it's the tank I had to start vaping out the back of my building because it attracted attention...from my neighbours, and people walking past outside.... luckily, and somewhat predictably it was a terrible tank (coils prematurely dying - only time I've ever used pre-built coils (and they had to be the worst ever) while waiting for the separate RBA - which was equally disappointing) that I only had it a week before it went back).

The SMM was, until the insulator went, one of the very few tanks Ive ever had that survived the week mark...I'm famous (Laurie knows this only too well, knowing me - and Laurie was partly to blame for me buying the SMM, I knew he liked the Serpents, so when I saw the SMM I grabbed one ) for getting the bad one of anything, but on this I was lucky, while I read plenty of people having issues with theirs, mine was practically my main tank for 8 months without a hiccup. It was like opposite world for once. Just once. The only prob I have with it now, is that after it being down for a month, the draw, which I lived is a bit foreign to me...Ive gotten used to the Crius II, which is the only tank Ive ever been able to run airflow wide open (apart from the Lemo 2's which are restricted even wide open, not bonkers airflow like the Crius II) without getting the dreaded hiccups. It's spoiled me a bit. First toot back on the SMM I was like, wow that's a bit tight

Yup, I know plenty who do the clone (test) > genuine route

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[stylemessiah]

Meanwhile I just watched Daniels review for the new SX Mini SL class...

And I'll comment here because Evolv doesn't really have fanboys, but I can't post in an SX thread these days for fear of trolling Last time I commented over there while u did get some backup it wasn't a conducive place to be.

So here's my 5 cents on the SL class

Design:

How did they go from the wonderful sturdy and nice simple design of the M Class (I owned one - since donated to an objectionable man in France that Laurie and I know) to the fuglies they're cranking out now...the new one is even fuglier than the G Class and that takes some work. It looks like some sort of electronic inline handheld shower control for an elaborate shower head from a hotel in Japan. It is fricking dire. Even Daniel couldn't elaborate/spin its basic design beyond "it's a tube with the chip stuck on the front". Now while I liked the design and heft of the M Class, it had its issues, and we'll get to those soon enough...

Performance:

Now, right up front, I will tell you, after owning every TC chipset that the Yihi is The Worst (now you'll fully understand why I'm not over on an SX thread), I'm sorry, but there it is. My un-upgradeable since day one AUD$80 TreeBox Mini poos on any Yihi TC mod Ive owned/tried. I was quite happy to donate my M Class to said friend, for 2 main reasons:

1) you had to fiddle and calibrate/lock room temp every damn time you moved location - inside/outside

2) ....ing rattlesnaking!!!!! Only mod Ive ever used that rattlesnaked. Horrendous. And at the time it was the most expensive mod I'd ever bought/was available.

I remember the last time I posted on an SX thread was the G Class launch, I stopped by to (equally) rag on the fugliness of it and to see if they'd actually got the chipset working yet and if the rattlesnaking was gone. I got not much love for the looks comment, but did at least get a few honest souls reporting the issues from 2 years previous on the M Class were still there, even the rattlesnaking. A couple of poor dissenting voices even admitted they regretted buying the G Class.

So has the SL class won me back to being interested at least? No, not on the looks, and not going on the charts either. SX Mini stuck in the past, inefficient and still of course top dollar.

p.s. I should qualify that,

even with the experience I had with 2 joyetech evic mini (originals) when they came out, with the wonky 510's, the bad firmware, the underhanded behaviour by joyetech of first ignoring paying customers like me reporting issues to then via email/their own forum & here by turning around and giving away like a 1000 free on here to try and freeze us out instead of customer service, plus then finally being even more underhanded by sending myself and others "special" beta firmware that turned out to be individually altered for the exact innacurate ohmage drop we were individually reporting (I sent PBusardo a copy of the email telling me I couldn't mention the "special" firmware to anyone else they would withdraw any support, in case anyone doubted me),

Yihis temp control was *still* worse than joyetechs temp control implementation....joyetech of course is permanently on my poo list though for every other reason mentioned...

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[cigatron]

Hey @cigatron remember when we were talking about @kiba and setting TCR? I said this ......Well, I found that calculator. Input starting/ending temps in°C. Starting (cold Ω/ending Ω) and it'll spit out the TCR. Now having said that, there's one thing that does not change the output TCR meaningfully

1. Evolv has always said they 'refine' the cold ohm value to 70F, yet if you create a custom material in escribe or look at any of their other default materials you actually see it's 68F (20°C) as compared to 70F which is 21.1111. EXCEPT TITANIUM which shows 70.

I think you got this using either the water boil or cotton singe, but if you want, I can give you high level or details. So put in any 4 values, and it'll solve for the 5th.

Resistivity, Temperature calculator -- EndMemo

Maybe I'm missing something but if I know the cold temp (68-70°f) and I adjust the tcr to singe cotton (420°f) don't I already know the tcr?

I can see where the calculator would be handy for setting tcr If I had a thermal probe/meter to measure coil temp at vaping temps (385-450°f)

 

[ShamrockPat]

.... joyetech evic mini ... of course is permanently on my poo list

My very 1st mod ....... autofired while in warranty, and their CS did unspeakable things to me, without even a kiss first. Never spent another $ on them. But I've been patiently waiting for my Reuleaux DNA200 to crap out. At just under 100k puffs, the 510 refuses to die.

2) ....ing rattlesnaking!!!!!

I felt that on their 'G' class I used for an afternoon(the one with the Joystick), but was told I was full of carp.

..... because Evolv doesn't really have fanboys

I'm no fanboy, and all my mods are DNAs.

 

[stylemessiah]

My very 1st mod ....... autofired while in warranty, and their CS did unspeakable things to me, without even a kiss first. Never spent another $ on them. But I've been patiently waiting for my Reuleaux DNA200 to crap out. At just under 100k puffs, the 510 refuses to die.

Yup joyetech, don't get me started lol....they never lube you up first

I felt that on their 'G' class I used for an afternoon(the one with the Joystick), but was told I was full of carp.

<Full Hunter S Thompson mode>

Jesus man, don't mention rattlesnaking in an SX thread, those pig....ers will hang you

I'm no fanboy, and all my mods are DNAs.

I'm no fanboy either, I hate the DNA refining...my only issue with it lol

Now TreeBoxen, well that's different, and bordering on pathological

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[ShamrockPat]

Maybe I'm missing something but if I know the cold temp (68-70°f) and I adjust the tcr to singe cotton (420°f) don't I already know the tcr?

Yup. But if one didn't know the TCR of a wire (@kiba was setting his .41Ω to .45Ω) , and wanted it to singe at say 420°f, let's say it was labelled as SS430. They know the standard .00138. Load a much higher value like .00170, see the temp at which the cotton singes. Now they know from device monitor the resistance value change for cotton singe. Blank out the TCR on that page, now instead put in the 215.5556°C (420°f), and it'll now show the TCR to use.

 

[ShamrockPat]

don't get me started lol....they never lube you up first

Same here. Over a 3 week period.

I hate the DNA refining

IMHO, that's their differentiator, and part of what makes them special, in a good way. But that's OK, I won't hold that against you as my little sister married an Australian She went to a wedding reception where they had Dwarf tossing (certainly not politically correct).

 

[stylemessiah]

Yup. But if one didn't know the TCR of a wire (@kiba was setting his .41Ω to .45Ω) , and wanted it to singe at say 420°f, let's say it was labelled as SS430. They know the standard .00138. Load a much higher value like .00170, see the temp at which the cotton singes. Now they know from device monitor the resistance value change for cotton singe. Blank out the TCR on that page, now instead put in the 215.5556°C (420°f), and it'll now show the TCR to use.

That might very well have proven useful with all the SS430 I bought many months back (and returned shortly after receiving), none of which worked at the generally held 138, and I don't use wire that when I contacted the vendor to ask the TCR their response is "try higher" or "you tell me". It really ruined moving from 316L to anything else for me.

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[cigatron]

@Wayneo ,That sounds easier than entering a bunch of tcr values into escribe and uploading to the mod.