Expect a new tax on analogs after total ecig ban!

[kristin]

I don't want the e-cig to become illegal. I've posted enough on here that it should be clear that's where I stand.

We don't have enough evidence to say why Schwartzenegger vetoed. He may have simply done it because he felt like it. He's that kind of a guy.

The Utah thing was a lucky shot in the dark. It was also a cliffhanger. Just count your blessings on that one, because by the looks of things, that may be the only victory we may see for a long time. If states like IL, MD and NY are poised for a ban, it's just not looking good. Like I said, most politicians just want to get re-elected. They tend to shy away from controversies and go for the "save the children" stuff that gets people emotional.

I'm sorry, but you are so wrong.

It wasn't a "lucky shot in the dark" in Utah (I agree about California.) We were actively corresponding with Utah legislators and saw that we had made an impact through that correspondence.

Vocalek just got this back from a New York legislator:

From: Assemblyman Ball ballg@assembly.state.ny.us
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 16:33:32 -0500
To: ekeller@
Subject: Re: A9529: Prohibits the sale of electronic cigarettes
Elaine,

I have a strong commitment to this issue, especially as it concerns
offering people new opportunities to quit smoking.

I am on top of the proposed legislation.

Please keep me abreast of your concerns!

Greg Ball
Member of the Assembly
99th District

That was NOT an autoresponder.

Clear, concise, rational correspondence with legislators DOES have an impact.

If politicians "shy away from controversy" then we, as vapers, need to put the pressure on even more and make it clear that there WILL be a controversy if they ban ecigs.

 

[schaedj]

I guess I'm not up on internet sale laws, so help me understand?

So the way the law currently looks at it, if someone is sitting on their laptop in Illinois (say ecig sales are banned there) and buys ecigs online, the purchase is not considered to have happened IN Illinois? (Kind of why the vendor doesn't have to collect taxes for a state unless they have a physical location in that state?

Additionally, don't those proposed bans include the word "distribution" in their language? Would shipping an ecig to Illiniois be considered "distribution?"

Actually, If you buy something online from another state, you are "supposed" to voluntarily pay the sales tax on your own in your state. The company is required to collect it if they have an in state location. PA tried to collect a few years ago by putting a line on the state tax return saying, "If you bought anything mail order, put the value here", and then multiplying that number by 6% and adding it to your income tax. (Um, they collected $1.73)

Sorry for the sidetrack, but you reminded me of how stupid politicians can be.

 

[kristin]

Actually, If you buy something online from another state, you are "supposed" to voluntarily pay the sales tax on your own in your state. The company is required to collect it if they have an in state location. PA tried to collect a few years ago by putting a line on the state tax return saying, "If you bought anything mail order, put the value here", and then multiplying that number by 6% and adding it to your income tax. (Um, they collected $1.73)

Sorry for the sidetrack, but you reminded me of how stupid politicians can be.

Yes, I know there is supposed to be a responsibility on the purchaser to pay the state sales tax (like I can remember all I bought online) I was just talking about the vendor's responsibility for a state in which he has no physical location.

 

[me who]

After further thought the "Stamp" concept will only work in retail store fronts. This would leave are great internet suppliers out in the cold. What would be a fair tax per ml? Would .25 cents per ml be to much? That would be $2.50 per 10 ml. The charge would be assessed against the distributor and of course passed onto us consumers.

$2.50 for 10 mls, Unacceptable! or I'll just find a new tribute avoidance method.

 

[schaedj]

It would be interesting to know if the ban would affect the seller's location or the buyer's.

In OH, it's illegal to shoot fireworks, but it's legal to sell them. You just have to sign a document saying you are taking them out of state.

On the net, when you click on *certain* sites, the disclaimer always asks if the information you seek is legal "in the community where you live"

Maybe vendors will have to keep a list of states where they can't ship (and vapers will get PO boxes over the state line)

Hmmmm.

 

[schaedj]

$2.50 for 10 mls, Unacceptable! or I'll just find a new tribute avoidance method.

The whole justification for the cigarette tax has always been that it is a "sin" tax, and that the money is needed to pay for the damages that smoking causes. The government doesn't want vaping to catch on because they can't justify an additional charge on something that doesn't have negative health effects. This represents a loss of a major revenue stream. Financially they are way better off to ban them. The problem is, even in the FDA case, the ban is based on the lack of "credible" research to prove they cause less harm. Eventually, someone is going to pony up to get the study done, and that will leave the government and the FDA high and dry. The problem is getting through the "dry" years. Prohibition, here we come.

Anyone want to meet me at the vaping speakeasy?

 

[Brewster 59]

RANT ON
Okay, now the individual states who are beginnning to see a drop in there cig tax revenue are inacting their own legislation using misleading information supplied by the FDA as a basis to outright ban the sales of these life saving devices. They refuse to look at the real issue of saving smokers lives.

Smokers like me have been abused and discriminated against for 20 plus years. I, like most just roll with the punches, pay their exorbitant taxes, and live my life. Now something finally comes along that actually worked for me to end my slow and agonizing life ending habit. The powers that be use the excuses "Smokers drive up health costs!" "Tax them so they are not affordable" "Everyone should just quit" to justify the continuious increase in taxes. The last excuse is the biggest joke of all. This is the last thing they want.

The federal and state goverments know that most of the people still using cigarettes have tried the worthless patches, gum, chantex and go right back to smoking. This is a huge cash cow. They state "We will use the money for uninsured childrens health care" which was the last justification used by my state, Texas. I for one would like to see a detailed report of where all the cigarette tax dollars have gone.

Now we have something that works, is affordable, meets the goverments excuses for the taxes and yet they scream "FOUL". This is not what we want. We are to used to receiving $135,000,000 a day every day of the year (using $3.00 per pack in taxes x 45 million US smokers at 1 pack a day). We don't care if it kills 400,000 people a year. This is way to easy for you to quit smoking. They must be made illegal until we can figure out how to make money on them.

I'm sure I'll just roll with this punch when it happens, go back to my analogs, and live my life. Expect a new cigarette tax increase of around a dollar a pack to finance a new five year study on electronic cigarettes very shortly after they are banned.

RANT OFF

Or you could learn how to Diy and stock up on nic juice, stored in a cool place with no UV it has a shelf life of 2 years after that I guess the potency starts to downgrade but if it is 100 mg I dont care if it downgrades its still better than paying the theives with badges..

 

[Debbie]

Analogs are going up one way or another in the near future as most of the states are broke and taxing smokers is always PC.

And since they destroyed the economy, so many people are now out of work that they need to make up for that difference in tax revenue.

And due to their destruction of small businesses (over-regulation and fees), less and less jobs are being created in this country everyday, and that revenue also needs to be made up for.

Cheery news, huh?

Debbie

 

[Brewster 59]

the thing with the ban is banning sales of the product not the use of it.. so you would not be able to sell them in your state but you can still buy and use it from out of state.. even if all states banned sales could still be ordered legally from overseas.. now the pact act stopping mailing of nicotine.. that does not include courier services.. will just cost more to have it shipped to you.. ups is out though since it is volunteer restriction..

so unless they make nicotine an illegal drug then use of a pv will always be legal..

Lab I knew I saw UPS voluntarly said they stop shipping nic but I cant find it and my buddy says Im wrong do you know where I can find this?

 

[taz3cat]

Lab I knew I saw UPS voluntarly said they stop shipping nic but I cant find it and my buddy says Im wrong do you know where I can find this?

Your not wrong they quit shipping out of NY state several years ago. I had just order some cigs from a place in NY and they had to shut down for a while and sent my money back . I was a double whammy cause Visa and Master Card refused to let them use their cards about the same time. I don't use UPS but as the last choice.

 

[The Wiz]

Your not wrong they quit shipping out of NY state several years ago. I had just order some cigs from a place in NY and they had to shut down for a while and sent my money back . I was a double whammy cause Visa and Master Card refused to let them use their cards about the same time. I don't use UPS but as the last choice.

Taz!!!!!(Sorry could'nt resist....back to topic!)

The Wiz!

 

[taz3cat]

ChipCurtis, I do not think you want them to become illegal, but I sort of snapped over you advising everyone to chili out. We have to keep working on these States until we can get the FDA to see reason or the appeals courts rule that Judge Leon was right.

I probably have met and been banged around by about as may crooks as you have. They were legal scumbags at that. You don't know what Hades is until your doctor tries to make you one of the 250,000 or more that die each year from medical incompetence.

Wiz, love ya

 

[ladybug]

Well,I am hearing the drumbeat to ban ecigs or to tax them sky high,and I take it seriously,because I have used ephedra and I loved it I really did not think the government could outlaw it,but they did,stupid basterds!I really hate the nanny country we have become,government is big brother breathing down my back telling me what I can do,or not do! Its all about how much they can rip off hard working americans,I hate looking at my paycheck and seeing how much they take from me! But its for my own good,huh?

 

[Rosa]

Anyone want to meet me at the vaping speakeasy?

Im SO there!

 

[geekgirl]

Whatever happens I refuse to pay their ridiculously high taxes anymore. If they ban e-cigs I will still find a way. If they decide to tax them like crazy I won't give in.

The zero nic e juice wouldn't fall into the banned category would it? theres no nicotine in it. How could they call that a drug delivery device?? Its not even an e-cigarette anymore except for appearance. Its just a way to taste yummy flavors at that point. Oh... and to keep up the activity of smoking/vaping.

Keep the rants coming! You guys get me all riled up!

 

[HighHeeledGoddess]

Don't get me wrong, there's nothing I would like more than to organize a march on DC with about one million of us. We could each bring a carton of cigs with us. When we reach the White House we could tear the things apart and urinate all over them in protest.

That would be a really graphic protest. This is my idea for a protest:

We make an assemblage of vapors indulging with never/non-smokers mixed amongst us COMFORTABLY because people are not bothered by 2nd hand vapor in the way they are smoke. That is my vision of the protest.

 

[HighHeeledGoddess]

Whatever happens I refuse to pay their ridiculously high taxes anymore. If they ban e-cigs I will still find a way. If they decide to tax them like crazy I won't give in.

I'll grow my own blasted tobacco if I have to! It can't be that hard, it is a weed after all!

 

[ChipCurtis]

ChipCurtis, I do not think you want them to become illegal, but I sort of snapped over you advising everyone to chili out. We have to keep working on these States until we can get the FDA to see reason or the appeals courts rule that Judge Leon was right.

I probably have met and been banged around by about as may crooks as you have. They were legal scumbags at that. You don't know what Hades is until your doctor tries to make you one of the 250,000 or more that die each year from medical incompetence.

I suppose an apology is in order. I've ranted here myself, so i have no right saying for people to chill. Stay on the cases by all means. I've got a watchful eye in my state and am watching the FDA/SE case like a hawk. I think the best course for anyone to take is to keep your back-end protected while pushing forward on the front end. That is, stay stocked up (for the worst possible outcome) while continuing to do battle in the statehouses and in the court of public opinion.

 

[tmbrown327]

I'll grow my own blasted tobacco if I have to! It can't be that hard, it is a weed after all!

A friend of mine here at work in Massachusetts managed to bring in a crop of tobacco. If he can do it, anyone could do it, in pretty much any state in the US. He's in the process of 'flue curing' it at the moment.

 

[taz3cat]

I suppose an apology is in order. I've ranted here myself, so i have no right saying for people to chill. Stay on the cases by all means. I've got a watchful eye in my state and am watching the FDA/SE case like a hawk. I think the best course for anyone to take is to keep your back-end protected while pushing forward on the front end. That is, stay stocked up (for the worst possible outcome) while continuing to do battle in the statehouses and in the court of public opinion.

ChipCurtis, that is good advise, I have been doing that ever since the first rumor about the FDA confiscation shipments of e-cigarettes. I have a nice collection from collecting from over a year and have made myself some box mods.

I think we all need to watch our state legislatures and in most states it is easy to do on the internet, once you figure out how they hide the up coming bills. That just may have been me but I thought Texas was a poorly arranged web site. Use subject such as nicotine, smoking, e-cigarettes, electronic cigarettes, smokeless tobacco, they stick stuff in other bills. Also, since so many are using the FDA it may find something using it.

Tmbrown, growing tobacco is the easy part curing and getting the nicotine extracted out of the tobacco is the really hard part.