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explanation please (vv vs. vw)

Discussion in 'APV and Mods Discussion' started by woundedphoenix, Jan 18, 2013.

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  1. woundedphoenix

    woundedphoenix Full Member

    Dec 19, 2010
    Houston, TX
    Just to make sure i understand completely (i think i have a solid grasp, but i want certain understanding), could someone please explain the difference between vari-volt, and vari-watt, aside from the very obvious (one is drain, the other output)?
    Why would i want one over the other?
    Why would i want a device that does both?
    Please explain the more distinct concepts and theorys to me.
    Many thanks.
    -wp
     
  2. zapped

    zapped Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Variable wattage allows you set the device at your favorite setting and then it will automatically adjust the voltage for you to match the resistance of whatever device youre using. People who use RBAs often have to deal with differing resistances as the optimize their builds. VW also appeals to people who might use a carto for one juice and say a ViVi Nova for another.

    I think most devices on the market that offer VW also include VV. There are a couple of reasons for this but mainly I think its so you can fine tune it. VW isnt as accurate as VV in most devices.It will get you VERY close but changing the voltage just .01 might might make a big difference for you and your juice.


    On the flip side of that if you only use one or two juices and always use the same delivery device at the same resistance you'll probably be just fine with VV.

    Hope that helps and good luck. :)
     
  3. Fury83

    Fury83 Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    May 14, 2012
    Nowhere
    I am not a complicated guy so I'll say it like this.

    Variable voltage is selecting the voltage to push to the attached device at. Variable voltage is a simple selection of a voltage number and then it is put out through the connector when fired.

    Variable wattage is selecting the wattage the attached device is ultimately operating at. Variable wattage devices take your selection and the resistance it reads from the atomizer, then it fires the device at the voltage it has calculated to produce that operating wattage in the attached device.

    If I have a VV/VW device in VV mode and I fire at 4.0 volts, I am going to get a different wattage, flavor and amount of vapor depending on the resistance of the attached device. In VW mode at say 8.0 watts, the device will adjust the voltage to the resistance of the attached clearo, carto, atty or tank to give me a consistent wattage, flavor and amount of vapor. Assuming the same e-liquid is used of course.

    True accuracy of either is dependent on the quality of the hardware and/or software of the device.
     
  4. woundedphoenix

    woundedphoenix Full Member

    Dec 19, 2010
    Houston, TX
    Fury83: that explains the cost of vw devices.
     
  5. Fury83

    Fury83 Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    May 14, 2012
    Nowhere
    Yes and no. You can get a good VW device for around 50 bucks if you shop around. You can get cheap VV devices but the cheapest 3-6 volt device I have seen that I would consider using is around 40 bucks and a provari (the gold standard for VV) is 160 plus.

    You can spend a lot or a little either way. You could just buy a Vamo or Anyvape tube for around 50 bucks and have VV and VW at pretty decent accuracy. Then if you decide you like one or the other you can jump up to a more expensive device but most people are satisfied with them.
     
  6. zapped

    zapped Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    I dont know if I would say most people are satisfied with them.Ive seen a LOT of complains about the Vamo in 4 short weeks. Not gonna get into a discussion about which device is better, I'll just suggest you do your research including typing the name of prospective devices into the search tool here and read what comes up.

    The good news is there are a lot of devices and price points to choose from.The bad news....there are a lot of devices and price points to choose from.
     
  7. Fury83

    Fury83 Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    May 14, 2012
    Nowhere
    I see that with almost everything. In fact, the provari is the only mass produced mod I have ever seen with near universal acclaim, people can say it should have more functions but no one disputes that it does what it does exceptionally and is well built.

    As for the vamo and anyvape, the underlying theme with any out of china mod is inconsistency in production. Most of the "pro" reviews I have seen like them, while pointing out flaws (design and function) too, and most users seem to be pretty happy. I haven't seen a provari type (high quality, us made) VW device available to the masses. The darwin isn't available enough to consider and I think it has some pretty big design flaws anyway.

    So my recommendation as a jumping off point for vv/vw devices is still the Vamo/anyvape/Zmax (less so though), I assume people will research their purchase when I make it. The flaws and issues are out there to be seen or read, vetted over hundreds of posts. If they don't look, it's their fault.
     
  8. muzichead

    muzichead Resident Knucklehead Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 7, 2011
    Illinois
    The nail has been hit on the head..... So many people out there don't understand that concept and is why it has to be explained in multiple threads. I have a Vmod XL that is kicked and only use 1 liquid and 1 particular brand of atty... I will point out that I do notice a difference with different brands of atty's I have used, (Avid, Iken, Joye, SLB to name a few). There is a difference in consistency mostly. I prefer the Avid Cisco spec 306 LR 1.5ohm over the rest as it is the most consistent. I have found a setup that works for me and as far as I know, me alone, and have pretty much stuck to it. Much like when I smoked.... One brand of cigarettes only... I don't even flinch anymore when I am out and in a crowd of smokers. The though never crosses my mind as to wanting another cigarette.
     
  9. MorpheusPA

    MorpheusPA Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 7, 2012
    Lehigh Valley, PA
    Even with the same juice and the "same" atomizer, there can be a difference. I measure my T3 bases at 2.6 to 2.9 and they're supposed to be 2.8. While not extreme, that still changes the wattage at a given voltage setting.

    No doubt if I built my own atomizers I could always have a consistent ohm rating. At least to start, it does change a bit as the atomizer ages.

    I'm not extremely touchy about it, so I can't say I care or even notice all that much. Some people might have a better sense of taste than I do, of course, or simply have a more educated palate than I do.

    So for me, variable voltage is just fine. If the wattage wiggles by 0.2 I really don't notice it (a 0.1 ohm change at 4 volts).

    Some people will. In that case, the ability to set your wattage to a precise figure will be more important to them.
     
  10. Fury83

    Fury83 Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    May 14, 2012
    Nowhere
    Yeah, variances like that can only be avoided by making your own coil and it never degraded. Also, how wet the coil is when any device reads the resistance seems to make a difference too.

    Variation in carto/atty/coil head ohms is pretty much the norm. The number it lists when you buy it is ballpark.

    I honestly use both types of devices.
     
  11. cyclotron

    cyclotron Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 24, 2012
    Hampton Roads, VA, US
    I have ran some tests on a coil I built myself and the resistance changes depending on the juice, how hot the head is, and general expansion and contraction of the coil. In my tests I've seen variances from one fire of the coil to the next in tenths of an ohm.

    I've read that VV is more "precise" in adjustments. This is true but in the median range that the majority uses it is insignificant.

    Compared to the variance of the resistance in the coil the difference between VV and VW in fine adjustment isn't even in the same ball park. The advantage of VW devices is that they read the resistance each time you fire and adjust in an attempt to meet your setting.

    In the end, VV vs. VW is just another preference item and that's fine. I don't think anyone would be successful in saying factually that one is "better" than the other over all as it is a subjective matter.

    Having a device that does both lets you decide.
     
  12. eddiezheadiez

    eddiezheadiez Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 17, 2013
    Boston
    Is there a difference in battery life between the two?
     
  13. tnt56

    tnt56 Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Just glad to know that I'm not the only one that feels this way. I've got a provari, 2 vamo's v1 and v2, and a kicked SB. plus 3 twist and a spinner. I don't care I still have to adjust for my juice at the time. The VV does do a finer job that the VW with this. Just for giggles I took my SB with a AW 18650 protected battery and my kick with extension sleeve with me one day. Set the kick at 7 watts. Did the math (which I hate doing but got an app for my phone for it). No one could tell the difference between the kicked unit and the one without. If i'm gonna kick or go VW with something it will NEVER be one that is built into the device. I'll just keep it simple. 3.7 - 4.0 volts with a 2.0-2.2 ohm head and i'm right where I should be. The only time the Provari is over 4 volts is with a high restistance carto. ie 3 ohms.
    When I got my first Vamo I cranked it up to 15 watts to just see what the fuss was all about. 2 seconds later all my hair fell out.....................
     
  14. MR.VAP3

    MR.VAP3 Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 26, 2012
    CALIFORNIA
    First you have to understand below formula,

    Voltage x Voltage / Ohm = Wattage

    For example
    4 Volt @ 3ohm = 4 x 4 / 3 = 5.33 W
    4 Volt @ 1.5ohm = 4 x 4 / 1.5 = 10.66 W
     
  15. el lobo furtivo

    el lobo furtivo Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 12, 2009
    Akron, OH
    So working this backwards, on a device that sets voltage according to set wattage (ie. VAMO), if I set it to 6 watts with a 3ohm attomizer, it will automatically set the voltage to 4.2, yes?
     
  16. DaveP

    DaveP PV Master & Musician ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 22, 2010
    Central GA
    What I'd like to see one day is a VT (variable temperature) mod. After all, it's the temperature of the juice that gets you the vape you are looking for. That would require all atomizer coils to have an onboard thermistor, though.

    Even then, different juices like different voltages, wattages, and vape temperature. No matter what you have, you will have to fiddle with the settings to get the vape just right. I have several settings memorized for different coils and juices.

    Right now, I'm vaping Dekang RY4 on my Provari using a Vivi Nova V2.5 at 3.5v on a 2.7 ohm coil. If I vape the same juice in a 3 ohm carto, I will probably have to bump it to 3.7v or 4.0v to get the same vape. All coils are not designed equally. There are so many variables and different coil efficiency levels involved that even VW isn't a cure-all.
     
  17. MR.VAP3

    MR.VAP3 Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 26, 2012
    CALIFORNIA
    Yup, you got it!

    Ohm's Law Calculator

     
  18. MR.VAP3

    MR.VAP3 Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 26, 2012
    CALIFORNIA
    vivi nova - 3.5v x 3.5v / 2.7 ohm = 4.53 W
    to achieve the 4.53 W in your carto, you will need 3.7v.

    However, vivi nova and carto are two different devices and as you mentioned "all coils are not designed equally" so even if there is VT, the temperature needed on the vivi nova will be different than on the carto.

     
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