Exploding Vape?

[bombastinator]

I'm not a newbie even by far, but nevertheless I'm not sure what the hell most of these guys are talking about either. What's more, it keeps happening all the time. Mooch recently did a video in which he explained the fact regulated mods don't offer more than only just a little bit of safety protection (see below). All the ranting that goes on in here about mech mods is solid evidence of the fact too many people are hiding their own lack of knowledge about battery safety by systemically blaming mech mods when the reality is that battery safety knowledge is still paramount regardless of whether the mod you use is a regulated mod, a harsh reality that they simply overlook when they use the dangers inherent of mech mods for their own deplorable scapegoat tactics over and over and over.

It’s a question of degree of damage in a particular instance, not a binary statement. Is it still Possible for battery to vent even in a modern mod? Yes. The whole mod won’t actually blow up and kill you if you do something as simple as set it down wrong though. Which is what happened and what the whole thread is about in the first place.

Also a modern mod won’t do it at all with a mod and battery in good repair. An unvented mech mod with a modern battery in it is exceptionally dangerous compared to modern mods. This doesn’t mean modern mods are totally and completely safe. Battery safety and maintainance remains important.

What I am seeing here is people who like to use old unvented battery mods (of which I am betting you are one) are unhappy that people are saying their devices are potentially fatally dangerous.

Bad News. They are. Someone is fricken dead. Claiming that all vapes are totally safe is GONE. You have only the choice that moderns vapes are still reasonably safe for the uneducated to use or that NO vapes are reasonably safe for the uneducated to use and with they should be licensed or banned completely.

That’s it. That’s all. It happened. Whining and hiding your head in the sand won’t change anything.

The choice that unvented mechs are reasonably safe to be sold to the general public simply no longer exists whether you cling to it because you have much invested in an old mech or not.

Those mods were designed and manufactured back when batteries held a lot less power than they do now, and moreover were designed to use a battery with a chemistry that produced very little hot gas when it failed. If those old batteries were still gettable this wouldn’t be much of a problem, but they’re not.

 

[MMW]

Ah, these guys are just trying to be super safe
But honestly there have been a lot of fault induced regulated mod melt downs...i've read about some on this forum (I think..maybe Reddit)..

For me I still like my shiny tubes. There's something special about the work that goes in to them...they're pretty And on a fresh battery it's a great vape with the right resistance!

No reason to be afraid with the correct precautions

Definitely ECR and r/Vaping on Reddit. There was quite a few VooPoo Drag mods over the fall/early winter of 2018 having critical failures. Along with Smok pens.

 

[dripster]

Ah, these guys are just trying to be super safe
But honestly there have been a lot of fault induced regulated mod melt downs...i've read about some on this forum (I think..maybe Reddit)..

For me I still like my shiny tubes. There's something special about the work that goes in to them...they're pretty And on a fresh battery it's a great vape with the right resistance!

No reason to be afraid with the correct precautions

I don't doubt they're trying to be super safe. My only real question is, are they?

The sheer quantity of people who are using a regulated mod thinking it is "safe" is what frightens me 100 times more than those who vape their mechs at 30% above the CDR of their batteries whilst knowing what they're doing.

 

[dripster]

It’s a question of degree of damage in a particular instance, not a binary statement. Is it still Possible for battery to vent even in a modern mod? Yes. The whole mod won’t actually blow up and kill you if you do something as simple as set it down wrong though. Which is what happened and what the whole thread is about in the first place.

Also a modern mod won’t do it at all with a mod and battery in good repair. An unvented mech mod with a modern battery in it is exceptionally dangerous compared to modern mods. This doesn’t mean modern mods are totally and completely safe. Battery safety and maintainance remains important.

What I am seeing here is people who like to use old unvented battery mods (of which I am betting you are one) are unhappy that people are saying their devices are potentially fatally dangerous.

Bad News. They are.

Those mods were designed and manufactured back when batteries held a lot less power than they do now, and moreover were designed to use a battery with a chemistry that produced very little hot gas when it failed. If those old batteries were still gettable this wouldn’t be much of a problem, but they’re not.

The whole regulated mod can still blow up if using batteries in it that have torn wraps on them so, seeing as you don't seem to be aware of this, you actually just proved my point, that the built-in safety protections of regulated mods are an open invitation to wrongfully thinking they are safe. Which isn't to say mech mods are immune to this kind of user error, but then, potato knives can be dangerously sharp, and they aren't immune to user error either. My only gripe is, I don't see people rioting in the streets over the risks associated with potato knives.

 

[charlie1465]

Definitely ECR and r/Vaping on Reddit. There was quite a few VooPoo Drag mods over the fall/early winter of 2018 having critical failures. Along with Smok pens.

Don't say that...i'm vaping the drag 2 right now

 

[charlie1465]

The whole regulated mod can still blow up if using batteries in it that have torn wraps on them so, seeing as you don't seem to be aware of this, you actually just proved my point, that the built-in safety protections of regulated mods are an open invitation to wrongfully thinking they are safe. Which isn't to say mech mods are immune to this kind of user error, but then, potato knives can be dangerously sharp, and they aren't immune to user error either. My only gripe is, I don't see people rioting in the streets over the risks associated with potato knives.

Totally agree...regulated mods are just as dangerous if they have a sealed battery compartment. @bombastinator probably is referring to mods with a magnetic battery door which are clearly not going to explode..

All the same there are plenty of the other type. And I agree that there is a bias when it comes to mech's over regulated and their respective safety issues. There is still a big contingent of vapors that say oh you'll be fine the chip will protect you....true in certain circumstances but not others...

 

[F-machine]

The sad thing about vaping tragedies is all of them are easily preventable. Almost all of new vapers or shall I say, 'thinking to switch' is they don't know nothing. Including myself when I was new. That's a big deal if they start shopping without knowing what they are buying. And sadly again, most will just buy the cheapest stuff they can find because they consider it just a 'trial'. And mech mods will pop a lot if you start searching with lowest price filter. One good thing about vaping community is I think, they, or we, are self regulating. We want more people to switch, but we tend to warn or teach them all the things they need to know before they start. But I wish to demand more.

I heard about vaping maybe 5 or 6 years ago. But I started vaping only 3 years later because of the things I read and fear. I hope battery and mech mod manufacturers and sellers add labels and warnings all over their product about safety and how it is not recommended for noobs. But I doubt that will ever happen with 100% participation.

 

[MMW]

Don't say that...i'm vaping the drag 2 right now

It was only the V1 near the charge port.

 

[Punk In Drublic]

Employing safe battery practices has been mentioned a few times within this thread. Which is critical regardless of which device you use. However, excluding safe battery practices it is a fact that mechanical devices carry a higher risk than their chip-based counterparts.

If we look at why these devices fail, the most common reason will be the human element – the human element does not change with device. However, one design does employ some safe guards to mitigate the human element from being a factor. Just a short circuit protection alone means a chip-based device carries less risk than a mechanical even if that safety measure only works a percentage of the time.

Mooch’s video basically explains one should not carry a false sense of security when using a chip-based device and goes into detail as to why. I agree for there is a misconception with some chip-based users that their device will protect them against certain hazards.

There maybe bias opinions towards mechs, but that does not change the risks involved. Mech users may even be more in tuned toward proper safe battery practices, or this is could be speculation, but it still does not change the risks involved.

Regardless of device, understand the risks, respect the product you are using and employ safe battery practices!

 

[bombastinator]

Definitely ECR and r/Vaping on Reddit. There was quite a few VooPoo Drag mods over the fall/early winter of 2018 having critical failures. Along with Smok pens.

Did they kill anyone? Nearly kill anyone?

 

[dripster]

Totally agree...regulated mods are just as dangerous if they have a sealed battery compartment. @bombastinator probably is referring to mods with a magnetic battery door which are clearly not going to explode..

All the same there are plenty of the other type. And I agree that there is a bias when it comes to mech's over regulated and their respective safety issues. There is still a big contingent of vapors that say oh you'll be fine the chip will protect you....true in certain circumstances but not others...

Even if the regulated mod does have a magnetic battery door, the batteries can still explode inside the mod in the possible event that there's a hard short being caused directly onto the batteries. Granted, the magnetic battery door will fly off in the explosion thus eliminating the risk of the mod bursting into shards of metal causing shrapnel like a hand grenade. Even so, now we are assuming the average regulated mod buyer today is adequately aware of this, and that the average mech mod buyer today is NOT adequately aware of the importance of vent holes in a mech. I don't see any sensible reason why we should assume that. Just because @bombastinator said we should assume that, doesn't mean we actually should. Similarly, just because he also said he is willing to bet that I use older mechs that have no vent holes, doesn't mean he's got a chance of actually winning it. He doesn't.

 

[Punk In Drublic]

Did they kill anyone? Nearly kill anyone?

Although statistically, as far as we are aware, it has only been a mechanical device that has killed a user. However….I believe it will only be a matter of time before we hear of a fatality from a chip based device. It only takes the right sequence of events to cause a fatality. Cigarettes do not explode but have been the cause of many deaths due to careless use.

 

[charlie1465]

Even if the regulated mod does have a magnetic battery door, the batteries can still explode inside the mod in the possible event that there's a hard short being caused directly onto the batteries. Granted, the magnetic battery door will fly off in the explosion thus eliminating the risk of the mod bursting into shards of metal causing shrapnel like a hand grenade. Even so, now we are assuming the average regulated mod buyer today is adequately aware of this, and that the average mech mod buyer today is NOT adequately aware of the importance of vent holes in a mech. I don't see any sensible reason why we should assume that. Just because @bombastinator said we should assume that, doesn't mean we actually should. Similarly, just because he also said he is willing to bet that I use older mechs that have no vent holes, doesn't mean he's got a chance of actually winning it. He doesn't.

I disagree that batteries will explode in a situation where thay have plenty od ventilation. They can vent from the positive end but an explosion by definition means pressure build up resulting in a catastrophic failure. This happens when there is no means for the gas to escape.

Definition of Explosive. A chemical or compound that causes a sudden, almost instantaneous release of pressure, gas, heat and light when subjected to sudden shock, pressure, high temperature or applied potential.

So no they won't explode in a battery compartment with magnetic cover..

 

[bombastinator]

Even if the regulated mod does have a magnetic battery door, the batteries can still explode inside the mod in the possible event that there's a hard short being caused directly onto the batteries.

False. They don’t explode they vent. Most of the time this means they release a bunch of hot gas and stop working. In rare instances of that rare instance they can also spew flames.

Granted, the magnetic battery door will fly off in the explosion thus eliminating the risk of the mod bursting into shards of metal causing shrapnel like a hand grenade.

Which means a box mod with a battery door ISNT AN UNVENTED MECH IN THE FIRST PLACE. Why is this even being used as an example?

Even so, now we are assuming the average regulated mod buyer today is adequately aware of this, and that the average mech mod buyer today is NOT adequately aware of the importance of vent holes in a mech.

False. I am assuming that vape buyers may or may not be adequately aware. Randomly. The only way to assure that adequate ubiquitous awareness i know of is to institute licensing. Is this what you are proposing?

I don't see any sensible reason why we should assume that. Just because @bombastinator said we should assume that, doesn't mean we actually should. Similarly, just because he also said he is willing to bet that I use older mechs that have no vent holes, doesn't mean he's got a chance of actually winning it. He doesn't.

So you’re an antvaping activist then? That would be a reasonable guess considering your stance.
Another is that you use mechs with vent holes yourself and merely want to watch other people be killed by them.
A third is that you are an anti-regulatory libertarian and this isn’t really about vaping but is in fact a political screed.

Am I still wrong?

 

[bombastinator]

Although statistically, as far as we are aware, it has only been a mechanical device that has killed a user. However….I believe it will only be a matter of time before we hear of a fatality from a chip based device. It only takes the right sequence of events to cause a fatality. Cigarettes do not explode but have been the cause of many deaths due to careless use.

Ok. So you seem to want to either ban all vapes or give vapes the same protection from being regulated that cigarettes enjoy because they predate safety regulation entirely. Got a time machine?

If cigarettes came onto the market in the 21st century they would be instantly banned. It wouldn’t even be close. They didn’t though. E-cigarettes did.

Since one of your options is impossible, the only one left is ban all vapes.

 

[dripster]

Employing safe battery practices has been mentioned a few times within this thread. Which is critical regardless of which device you use. However, excluding safe battery practices it is a fact that mechanical devices carry a higher risk than their chip-based counterparts.

If we look at why these devices fail, the most common reason will be the human element – the human element does not change with device. However, one design does employ some safe guards to mitigate the human element from being a factor. Just a short circuit protection alone means a chip-based device carries less risk than a mechanical even if that safety measure only works a percentage of the time.

Mooch’s video basically explains one should not carry a false sense of security when using a chip-based device and goes into detail as to why. I agree for there is a misconception with some chip-based users that their device will protect them against certain hazards.

There maybe bias opinions towards mechs, but that does not change the risks involved. Mech users may even be more in tuned toward proper safe battery practices, or this is could be speculation, but it still does not change the risks involved.

Regardless of device, understand the risks, respect the product you are using and employ safe battery practices!

You are assuming the risks resulting from there being a fairly widespread false sense of security that's essentially inviting the regulated mod user to not educate themselves properly about battery safety does not outweigh the risks inherent of mech mods. Just because you assume it, doesn't change the risks involved with being invited to not educate oneself properly about battery safety, which proves my point that you are only speculating about safety, and, speculating about safety is how most accidents happen.

 

[bombastinator]

You are assuming the risks resulting from there being a fairly widespread false sense of security that's essentially inviting the regulated mod user to not educate themselves properly about battery safety does not outweigh the risks inherent of mech mods. Just because you assume it, doesn't change the risks involved with being invited to not educate oneself properly about battery safety, which proves my point that you are only speculating about safety, and, speculating about safety is how most accidents happen.

Not quite, though close. I am assuming that anti-cigarette activists backed by massive funding from the tobacco and pharmaceutical industries are going to claim it. I also think that assumption of spontaneous voluntary self education and the following of common sense safety rules is not something the government does any more. On either the right or the left. Which means I think that the anti-vaping activists will almost certainly win if steps are not taken. The gold standard of safety regulation is “did someone die?” Plane crashes, automobile safety, the number of legs on office chairs, electrical code, all of it is done using that standard. Regulation is generally written in blood.

Someone died.

The question is no longer whether anything needs to be done at all or not. The question is what needs to be done.

 

[Punk In Drublic]

Ok. So you seem to want to either ban all vapes or give vapes the same protection from being regulated that cigarettes enjoy because they predate safety regulation entirely. Got a time machine?

If cigarettes came onto the market in the 21st century they would be instantly banned. It wouldn’t even be close. They didn’t though. E-cigarettes did.

Since one of your options is impossible, the only one left is ban all vapes.

I do not want to ban anything related to vaping – not sure where you got that from. I am drawing a comparison that careless use can case a fatality and that it will only be a matter of time before a regulated device (lets call it chip based cause even some regulated devices carry safety circuitry), burst into flames becoming the cause of someone’s death.

The batteries within these devices can be lethal if not properly used – in most cases (if not all) when they blow it is unexpected and can set their surroundings on fire. If an individual(s) is not aware of this, like they are not aware of falling asleep with a lit cigarette, then the results can be fatal.

 

[bombastinator]

I do not want to ban anything related to vaping – not sure where you got that from.

I got it from you claiming that modern mods are effectively just as dangerous as a device that recently killed someone.

I am drawing a comparison that careless use can case a fatality and that it will only be a matter of time before a regulated device (lets call it chip based cause even some regulated devices carry safety circuitry), burst into flames becoming the cause of someone’s death.

It becomes a question I think, and this starts to get outside my fairly limited understanding of tort law, of how unlikely the event is, and whether or not reasonable and effective steps were taken to prevent the occurrence. In this moment in time, after this death, If a new user taking all the steps he was told to take buys a new unventilated mod and a new battery and gets killed by it, his heirs would have a rock solid case. You seem to be claiming that this doesn’t apply just to unventilated mechs, but to any mod at all.

The batteries within these devices can be lethal if not properly used – in most cases (if not all) when they blow it is unexpected and can set their surroundings on fire. If an individual(s) is not aware of this, like they are not aware of falling asleep with a lit cigarette, then the results can be fatal.

Yup. And cigarettes would be banned if they came out in the modern era like vapes did. You can’t compare the danger level of technologies that came out before safety concerns and are effectively grandfathered into our society with ones that are not. It’s not that it’s right or wrong, it’s simply that it doesn’t work.

 

[Punk In Drublic]

You are assuming the risks resulting from there being a fairly widespread false sense of security that's essentially inviting the regulated mod user to not educate themselves properly about battery safety does not outweigh the risks inherent of mech mods. Just because you assume it, doesn't change the risks involved with being invited to not educate oneself properly about battery safety, which proves my point that you are only speculating about safety, and, speculating about safety is how most accidents happen.

I am not assuming anything. I identified that one should understand the risks involved regardless of the device. I 100% agree that in most cases these failures are caused by human neglect. But that human element does not change depending on device. Stating so is speculating.

I did state that given the design of a chip based device it can mitigate this human element therefore is inherently less of a risk. That does not mean someone using a chip based device should neglect risk.

We have seen it many times here on ECF where a user inquires why their regulated device is giving an atomizer error. Some cases the connection to the device was not completed, but in other cases this was caused by a short, perhaps a small piece if coil trimmings that was not found and UNKNOWN to the user. The device safety feature kicked in mitigating any damage caused and removing that human element. There is no such safety feature on a mechanical device therefore it carries a higher risk.