Fallout starting close to home

[bobwho77]

The problem with these lawsuits is that the core issue is no warning about dangers and proper use. When these types of devices are sold by stores they should be in a case that has posted warnings about using such devices. Manufacturers should also have pamphlets with the device that covers the same. There is nothing is place that forewarns new vapers that these devices pose a danger and different then other plug and puff devices.

This is where the liability comes back on the shop and the manufacturer time and time ago. We can keep blaming the user, but if the manufacturer and shops do not properly warn of the dangers of these devices and that they are not for the inexperienced...accidents happen..then the question is raised as to why there were no warnings provided by the manufacturer as well as "posted" by the store who is selling it...thus a lawsuit is born.

I was a newbie who was carelessly sold a mech..it was this forum that told me to take it back and why...i was angry to be honest. I thought it was a simple plug and puff device because nobody told me any differently..but yet the store knew i was new to vaping and sold it to me anyway. Had it blown up on me and injured me...you betcha i would of been talking to a lawyer as to why there was no postings in the store or by the manufacturer. Had both provided those warnings and i still bought it...then what ever happened would be on ME.

The radio controlled modelling hobby has known about the high discharge LiPo battery issue since they first came on the market
I don't THINK that they've had any serious injuries, but then I doubt that very many people ever try SUCKING on a model airplane

 

[skoony]

Having regs thrust on us for no apparent reason is bad enough, but regs that are justified and self inflicted due to the abusive practices and stupidity of the vaping industry really grinds my gears. When regs come about and the hammer comes down, i wish i could say none of the regs are justified...but i know that will not be true in all cases ...sadly

The regulations are going to be tough. There is no doubt about that. The FDA started working on them
the day after they lost there case in 2009. Long before any of these side issues became main stream.
Even if there wasn't any battery issues. Even if there was not any flavor issues. Even if there wasn't
any coil,wick or, leaking issues. Even if there were not any vendor issues. The FDA was,is and will,
be coming down hard. Every new technology will have growing pains. Its normal and expected.
Yet overall when compared to smoking vaping is incredibly safe. PHE has stated they believe vaping
to be at least 95% safer. Probably closer to 99% safer. An average estimate of the studies on vaping
when harm reduction was estimated was 98.7% safer than smoking. There are studies indicating vaping
to be 100% safer than smoking. When takes into account that many smokers myself included also
believe the harm from smoking is to say the least enormously exaggerated its reasonable to assume
vaping is so safe as not to warrant any extra ordinary regulations what so ever.
Since quitting cigarettes I have reduced my cost from $15.00 a day to about $0.40 to $0.60 a day.
If I was able to get the same price reduction in gas I would go from paying $2.01 a gallon to $0.052.
This is the reason for onerous FDA regulation. It gets worse. From all appearances it looks as though
the CDC is preparing an argument that since e-cigarettes do help people quit smoking they actually
may be a cessation product and should perhaps be regulated as a medicine such as other smoking
cessation aides.
While we sit here squabbling over these little meaningless side issues we are being positioned
between two very large rocks. Keep in mind what we are fighting for. Remember to look at the
big picture. Its not about health or safety. Its about all the free range money roaming about
the fruited plain. In the near future the CDC,FDA,governments at all levels,BT,BP and the
entire medical establishment are going to be putting up a lot of barbed wire.

Regards
Mike

 

[skoony]

The radio controlled modelling hobby has known about the high discharge LiPo battery issue since they first came on the market
I don't THINK that they've had any serious injuries, but then I doubt that very many people ever try SUCKING on a model airplane

It has been well documented there are fires started charging RC battery's some involving
fatality's. 3-5 a year if not higher.(fires that is)

 

[papergoblin]

If I buy a chainsaw and hurt myself or damage property, is it the saw's fault or mine? It does have a foot of carnage making steel hanging right off the front of it. If I buy a car and speed then kill someone, is it my fault or the car, maybe the car shouldn't be able to go so fast, maybe there should be a safety on it that will only allow it to go the posted speed limit. I buy a house with a fireplace and burn it down, guess the builder is at fault. I buy a Christmas tree and poke my eye out putting it together, guess the tree company owes me money for making to realistic trees. I buy a pool and drown, guess my family should sue the pool company because I didn't know how to swim.

People buy things all the time that they do not know how to use. Rational people learn how to use a product before hand, others just open the box and go to town with it. Mech. mods are not dangerous at all, batteries now those can be dangerous. Most of us have used mech. mods since we were kids, we just called them flashlights. I have yet to have a coil 'pop' on a mod of any type and get a short, I've popped a lot of coils setting them up when using small wire it just loses a leg and no longer makes a connection (open circuit) same as turning off a light switch in your home.

These arguments about mechs. remind me of the stories of Edison vs. Tesla, Edison tried his best to ruin Tesla because he thought AC was too dangerous and DC was the safest option. Edison killed animals to prove his point, he basically made unsafe situations that didn't exist just to say he was right. This is how the electric chair was born, by a person so self centered and self serving, that he couldn't get out of his own head to see the real world around him.

Some people have a fear of mech. mods based on rational sensible reasons, these people can/will make good sound reasons against them, I'm fine with these people. Then there are the people that are scared to death of them but most of their reasoning is based on sensationalized stories or situations. Some people see a mech mod and think it's some kind of voodoo black magic that was spawned by the devil himself. Then they want to act like a priest at an exorcism running around yelling, out thy vile demon be gone from our midst.

 

[JMarca]

The radio controlled modelling hobby has known about the high discharge LiPo battery issue since they first came on the market
I don't THINK that they've had any serious injuries, but then I doubt that very many people ever try SUCKING on a model airplane

There have been many injuries in the RC community sadly, not to mention house fires where people have lost almost everything they own.




If a lipo can take out the front end of a Mercedes, what can it do to your face?
Obviously that was a fire and you wouldn't hold a lipo up to your face while it was on fire for very long, but what if it started a fire in your home?

 

[papergoblin]

There have been many injuries in the RC community sadly, not to mention house fires where people have lost almost everything they own.




If a lipo can take out the front end of a Mercedes, what can it do to your face?
Obviously that was a fire and you wouldn't hold a lipo up to your face while it was on fire for very long, but what if it started a fire in your home?

This comes back to basic battery safety though, never charge a battery unsupervised and never leave a battery in a device for long periods of time when not in use. People rely on safeties and shut offs too much, that charger may not turn off at full charge, that off switch may not always completely turn off a load. In my mods for vaping, I never leave a battery in a mod over night if they are removable and if they are built in I turn the mod off. If it is a mod with built in batteries, I take the atty off of it just in case. I also never go to bed with a charger going or even plugged in. Doesn't mean something can't happen but I do what I can to minimize the risk as much as possible. Now I used to leave an atty on my VW device I was using if laying in bed but I used to set it in a ceramic ashtray, just in case something went wrong in my sleep. It wasn't fool proof but it the mod were to start auto firing, at least it was sitting on a noncombustible surface.

 

[WharfRat1976]

If I buy a chainsaw and hurt myself or damage property, is it the saw's fault or mine? It does have a foot of carnage making steel hanging right off the front of it. If I buy a car and speed then kill someone, is it my fault or the car, maybe the car shouldn't be able to go so fast, maybe there should be a safety on it that will only allow it to go the posted speed limit. I buy a house with a fireplace and burn it down, guess the builder is at fault. I buy a Christmas tree and poke my eye out putting it together, guess the tree company owes me money for making to realistic trees. I buy a pool and drown, guess my family should sue the pool company because I didn't know how to swim.

People buy things all the time that they do not know how to use. Rational people learn how to use a product before hand, others just open the box and go to town with it. Mech. mods are not dangerous at all, batteries now those can be dangerous. Most of us have used mech. mods since we were kids, we just called them flashlights. I have yet to have a coil 'pop' on a mod of any type and get a short, I've popped a lot of coils setting them up when using small wire it just loses a leg and no longer makes a connection (open circuit) same as turning off a light switch in your home.

These arguments about mechs. remind me of the stories of Edison vs. Tesla, Edison tried his best to ruin Tesla because he thought AC was too dangerous and DC was the safest option. Edison killed animals to prove his point, he basically made unsafe situations that didn't exist just to say he was right. This is how the electric chair was born, by a person so self centered and self serving, that he couldn't get out of his own head to see the real world around him.

Some people have a fear of mech. mods based on rational sensible reasons, these people can/will make good sound reasons against them, I'm fine with these people. Then there are the people that are scared to death of them but most of their reasoning is based on sensationalized stories or situations. Some people see a mech mod and think it's some kind of voodoo black magic that was spawned by the devil himself. Then they want to act like a priest at an exorcism running around yelling, out thy vile demon be gone from our midst.

Totally meaningless. The government is not regulating chainsaws or Christmas trees.

 

[WharfRat1976]

There have been many injuries in the RC community sadly, not to mention house fires where people have lost almost everything they own.




If a lipo can take out the front end of a Mercedes, what can it do to your face?
Obviously that was a fire and you wouldn't hold a lipo up to your face while it was on fire for very long, but what if it started a fire in your home?

Meaningless. The government is not regulating lipos or RC equipment. They want to regulate nicotine and nicotine delivery.

 

[JMarca]

This comes back to basic battery safety though, never charge a battery unsupervised and never leave a battery in a device for long periods of time when not in use. People rely on safeties and shut offs too much, that charger may not turn off at full charge, that off switch may not always completely turn off a load. In my mods for vaping, I never leave a battery in a mod over night if they are removable and if they are built in I turn the mod off. If it is a mod with built in batteries, I take the atty off of it just in case. I also never go to bed with a charger going or even plugged in. Doesn't mean something can't happen but I do what I can to minimize the risk as much as possible. Now I used to leave an atty on my VW device I was using if laying in bed but I used to set it in a ceramic ashtray, just in case something went wrong in my sleep. It wasn't fool proof but it the mod were to start auto firing, at least it was sitting on a noncombustible surface.

I agree wholeheartedly, but let's be honest a typical user will put a mod on a charger and go to sleep at night, 18650s typically have no issues with this but with lipos the risk is real. Lipos (ideally) should be charged in a fire proof area of the house inside a fire resistance container such as this:

I use 2 ammo boxes myself but I have a bunch of lipos I store in the bigger one and when I'm charging when I switch to a smaller one to isolate the battery charging from the others.

 

[JMarca]

Meaningless. The government is not regulating lipos or RC equipment. They want to regulate nicotine and nicotine delivery.

What does that have to do with battery safety?
You should self regulate yourself to keep yourself safe screw what the government thinks.

PS: The government IS regulating the RC industry more and more everyday but that's neither here or there no idea why you brought the government into this, I was strictly speaking about safety.

 

[papergoblin]

Totally meaningless. The government is not regulating chainsaws or Christmas trees.

It's not meaningless, it's a point of there are many things people can get hurt by all the time without proper usage. Too many people don't want to blame a user of a mod for a mistake, they want to throw it all on the seller or maker. Misuse intentional or not is the end consumers liability. It's the point that regulation has nothing to do with safety but more to do with money. It also (to me kills) the argument for people trying to take responsibility off of the consumer.

EDIT: forgot to mention CA does regulate both, emissions and because they contain chemicals known to cause cancer, but everything in CA is known to cause cancer.

 

[bobwho77]

There have been many injuries in the RC community sadly, not to mention house fires where people have lost almost everything they own.




If a lipo can take out the front end of a Mercedes, what can it do to your face?
Obviously that was a fire and you wouldn't hold a lipo up to your face while it was on fire for very long, but what if it started a fire in your home?

Thanks
Posting from work, and didn't have time for a proper search

 

[WharfRat1976]

What does that have to do with battery safety?
You should self regulate yourself to keep yourself safe screw what the government thinks.

PS: The government IS regulating the RC industry more and more everyday but that's neither here or there no idea why you brought the government into this, I was strictly speaking about safety.

It was in response to ridiculous analogies. Comprehension is your friend.

 

[WharfRat1976]

It's not meaningless, it's a point of there are many things people can get hurt by all the time without proper usage. Too many people don't want to blame a user of a mod for a mistake, they want to throw it all on the seller or maker. Misuse intentional or not is the end consumers liability. It's the point that regulation has nothing to do with safety but more to do with money. It also (to me kills) the argument for people trying to take responsibility off of the consumer.

EDIT: forgot to mention CA does regulate both, emissions and because they contain chemicals known to cause cancer, but everything in CA is known to cause cancer.

Again, meaningless as the FDA is looking to regulate the vaping industry, not Bonami, Clorox or chainsaws.

 

[skoony]

It was in response to ridiculous analogies. Comprehension is your friend.

I will try to remember that.

Mike

 

[DeAnna2112]

Is it too much to ask that sellers post warnings so vapers will know these type of devices are not for the inexperienced? is it too much to ask that manufacturers provide pamphlets explaining the dangers to avoid?

Most people do not differentiate between the dangers of various vaping devices..most assume they are all plug and puff and why wouldn't they? if i go buy a chainsaw i can clearly see the dangers..if i fire up a fire place i can clearly see the dangers..if i go buy a vape device they merely vaporizes a liquid to inhale i certainly do not see the danger...and most devices do not pose a danger..it's these select ones...so without store/manufacturer providing that info before buying, a vaper has no reason to assume some are different and therefore dangerous if you don't have an extensive working knowledge on how to safely use them. This is where the store and manufacturer come into play alerting them of this.... yet some oppose this very simple responsible step to prevent harm as well as regs....((sigh))

If those things are in place and someone still buys the device..whatever happens is on them because both the shop and manufacturer provided the appropriate guidance and warnings for an individual to make an informed decision on the dangers of the device. They get hurt it's not because they were not warned about the dangers of the device like it is now ...and why soo many are getting hurt.

 

[JMarca]

It was in response to ridiculous analogies. Comprehension is your friend.

How is it ridiculous?
Alot of RC models use Lipo batteries, many mods these days including the newer DNA 200 mods use the same Lipo batteries.
There was no analogy here it's a 1:1 comparison we've adopted the technology into our hobby as of late, maybe you should work on your comprehension?

No one was even talking about government regulation maybe you should put your reading glasses on.

 

[beckdg]

What happened to the America that could refuse service and that went by the majority, not the minority.

<LIKE>

Tapatyped

 

[beckdg]

Who needs mechs now but old school vapers/collectors? I am sure Ford T was a great car, but to sell it today? Only as antique car.

Me.

It's still all I use.

And will remain so.

My daily drivers will outlive me and still be functional... guaranteed!

That's my first priority in mod/atty purchases for myself.

Tapatyped

 

[roxynoodle]

Read the comment (which has absolutely NO PLACE on GoFundMe type of site where families who have experienced a tragedy are reaching out to the community for financial help and prayers) left by a vaper:

Embarassing. to me at least. This one of the most recent man from Memphis .....Pictures of the injured man and a description about how serious his injuries are........dreadful .......and then *commenter* says Not one word about the man's well being.....just spouting vaping agenda.

"Drake Paulsen
2 hours ago
First of all, the "electronic cigarette" is not made by kangertech, the subtank is.The subtank would relatively work with that mod. Its up to the user to make sure he knows what he is doing to make it all work correctly. If there was an explosion, why aren't any signs of one shown. For the injuries he is claiming, the mod, and subtank would be destroyed. We as vapors have enough people trying to shut it down, we dont need people who make dumb mistakes to ruin it for the people who use vaping as an alternitive to smoking."

Maybe commenter should have started a blog about it or something, it amazes me that people can be so......inappropriate.

Have zero desire to be associated with any vaper like this and embarassed for our community that it happened. Jerry Springer guest would have had more class.

I agree its very rude to put that comment on the gofundme page, although I sort of understand why he did. The incident gives the appearance of being possibly false based on the photo provided. The mech mod appears to be in perfect condition. So does the clone Subtank aside from the missing glass. Is it possible this man was injured from something else and the family is lying? I don't know, but I'm questioning it myself.