FDA and ecigarettes

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SweetCloud

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This morning I read an article that the FDA has proposed its first regulation for ecigs. I have not been able to locate this proposal on the FDA site or anyplace else. Here is the article: FDA proposes first regulations for e-cigarettes

To the ECF vets out there, is there a post on here that can guide us through this? What can we do as a vaping community? Up to this point I feel vaping is a luxury and I have taken it for granted without paying much attention that this freedom can be yanked out of our rightful hands.

It is stated that ecigs look like cigarettes and looks like smoking. My ecig looks more like giving R2D2 CPR. Are our mods included in the proposal?

If there are existing posts or blogs can you please paste them for me to check out and bring myself up to par?

Thank you very much in advance!
 

Stfng

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joesquid

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I'm relatively new to vaping but have done a bit of research. I know the FDA tried to regulate E cigs as a drug delivery device but that was shot down by the Supreme Court. The SC said they could only regulate as a tobacco product. Now it would seem to me it would be pretty easy to get the court to further define that they can only regulate the products that contain nicotene.

What do y'all think?
 

Stfng

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horton

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It is the beginning of the squeeze by the FDA. I'm betting once they get their foot in the door, so to speak more, and more regs will be proposed and the industry will be running around putting out fires. I'm very concerned about anything the FDA does. Just look at the new drug approval process. It takes years and leaves many very sick people in the lurch when the same meds are being used in other countries.
Plus, with "pundits" like Dr. Oz putting out disinformation about nicotine, it's like a snowball effect.
We all need to be talking to out legislators on local, state, and federal level to implement common sense laws and regs. Just my :2c:
 

Stfng

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Mowgli

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From Facebook:

Why you should Oppose FDA Deeming Regs!

Business owners:

By the time most of you read this, the FDA Center for Tobacco Products will have already released the several hundred page "deeming" regulation regarding electronic cigarettes and other nicotine and tobacco products.

Please read this comment I quickly wrote earlier tonight on why vapers and vendors should OPPOSE deeming regulation. I have reproduced it below this e-mail.

Predictably, the news stories out right now are largely being told from the FDA's point of view. The FDA is trying to sell this regulation to lawmakers, public health groups, and industry, so they are of course aiming to have their regulation portrayed in the most positive light possible in the media.

Nonetheless, from what I can gather from these news articles and my knowledge of the Tobacco Control Act, the deeming regulation will be a disaster for e-cigarette product innovation, small and medium-sized businesses, and consumers. This is not a surprise to me, as people and groups like Bill Godshall, Dr. Michael Siegel, CASAA, SFATA, myself, etc. have long-noted that regulation of e-cigarettes under the Tobacco Control Act would likely do more harm than good, increase costs to consumers without benefits, and lead to products being removed from the market.

Please do not accept interview requests by journalists and TV reporters on this subject until you fully understand the ramifications of these regulations. Simply tell the reporters that, like any rational business owner, you won't be commenting until you have had the chance to actually read the proposed regulations.

For business owners and investors wishing to understand the subject more, I offer consulting services. Please call or email me for more details.

Best,
Gregory Conley, JD, MBA
231 Church Road
Medford, NJ 08055
(609) 947 - 8059
Gregory Conley Consulting, LLC
Twitter / LinkedIn

--------------------

A Brief Explanation of why the FDA Deeming Regulation Should Be Opposed
This is NOT good news and vendors and vapers should vehemently OPPOSE these regulations, as they will work to the benefit of large tobacco and e-cigarette companies with Wall Street investors that don't make the products used by 98% of this subreddit's users, while potentially shutting down hundreds or thousands of small and medium-sized businesses thanks to an extremely expensive, resource-heavy, and arbitrary system setup by the Family Smoking Prevention & Tobacco Control Act.

This is actually worse than I expected.

Two years after the regulation is written, e-cigarette companies will have to put in 'new tobacco product' applications for any product released to the market after February 25, 2007.*** This is not mere registration. This is a lengthy and expensive process. If you don't file an application, your product is banned. If you file an application and the FDA finds that your product shouldn't be on the market for one of a variety of reasons (including simply 'You failed to submit adequate evidence of x, y, and z.'), it can be pulled from the market.

After that 2 year date, any new e-cigarette product must be approved by the FDA before it goes to market. If the FDA does not approve your product, it cannot be brought to market. This is not a fast process, as evidenced by a Government Accountability Office report that was highly critical of huge delays that were and still are happening at the FDA Center for Tobacco Products. http://www.gao.gov/assets/660/657451.pdf

For just a sample of what a "new tobacco product" application is like, see here. This a document from when the FDA refused to even file (let alone approve) four "new tobacco product" applications : http://www.fda.gov/downloads/TobaccoProducts/Labeling/MarketingandAdvertising/UCM389515.pdf

Also see this snippet from a Lancet article (behind a paywall) by Dr. Lawrence Deyton, the former Director of the Center for Tobacco Products, in which the burden that will be put on e-cigarette and e-liquid companies is outlined: The burden is on the manufacturer to provide evidence that permitting the produc - Pastebin.com

This is bad news for e-cigarette consumers. The chance of a flavor ban or an online sales ban from the start was never really an option. This prospect was here all along and is not positive.

*** There is also something called "substantial equivalence" which is a smaller, but still expensive, loop to jump through. However, FDA guidance on substantial equivalence, and their past decisions on other applications, indicate that it would be a fruitless effort to prove substantial equivalence for a 2016 e-cig product vs. a 2007 product.

Vapers should not only oppose this deeming regulation, but also support vendors that stick up for their businesses and consumers
 

joesquid

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Fig,

Thanks for posting the new proposed regs! I can't say I read all 241 pages but did spend about an hour looking them over. It appears to me that they will only effect products that are derived from tobacco (nicotene or juice with nicotene). It also seems to be aimed at cigars and pipe tobacco as much as E cigs. I don't believe it will effect the hardware we use at all.
 

Mowgli

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rurwin

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Jan 6, 2014
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Fig,

Thanks for posting the new proposed regs! I can't say I read all 241 pages but did spend about an hour looking them over. It appears to me that they will only effect products that are derived from tobacco (nicotene or juice with nicotene). It also seems to be aimed at cigars and pipe tobacco as much as E cigs. I don't believe it will effect the hardware we use at all.

First they came for the eliquid importers, but I didn't import eliquid so I didn't say anything.
Then they came for the mom and pop eliquid mixers, but I make mods so I didn't say anything.

...
 

wv2win

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Feb 10, 2009
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Personally, I think the regulations are a lot less strict than I was expecting. Hopefully we use science for future regulations. To me, this was a victory considering what could have come down.

I disagree, there are plenty of people that can afford the process of becoming FDA approved. BT is one of course, but there are many hungry companies out there right now that have tons of cash and lobbyist.

Honestly, FDA regulation was just a matter of time. I think the industry got off pretty easy, considering what they could have done. I try and look at the positive things, not negative. We need people in the industry to lead us and not just throw their hands up and say "OH NOW WE CANT VAPE CUZ OF THE GOVERNMENT". We WILL fail if that happens.

Please read Greg Conley's comments/advice carefully (below). He knows more about this issue than most of us put together. This is NOT a good result for the vaping community.

From Facebook:

Why you should Oppose FDA Deeming Regs!

Business owners:

By the time most of you read this, the FDA Center for Tobacco Products will have already released the several hundred page "deeming" regulation regarding electronic cigarettes and other nicotine and tobacco products.

Please read this comment I quickly wrote earlier tonight on why vapers and vendors should OPPOSE deeming regulation. I have reproduced it below this e-mail.

Predictably, the news stories out right now are largely being told from the FDA's point of view. The FDA is trying to sell this regulation to lawmakers, public health groups, and industry, so they are of course aiming to have their regulation portrayed in the most positive light possible in the media.

Nonetheless, from what I can gather from these news articles and my knowledge of the Tobacco Control Act, the deeming regulation will be a disaster for e-cigarette product innovation, small and medium-sized businesses, and consumers. This is not a surprise to me, as people and groups like Bill Godshall, Dr. Michael Siegel, CASAA, SFATA, myself, etc. have long-noted that regulation of e-cigarettes under the Tobacco Control Act would likely do more harm than good, increase costs to consumers without benefits, and lead to products being removed from the market.

Please do not accept interview requests by journalists and TV reporters on this subject until you fully understand the ramifications of these regulations. Simply tell the reporters that, like any rational business owner, you won't be commenting until you have had the chance to actually read the proposed regulations.

For business owners and investors wishing to understand the subject more, I offer consulting services. Please call or email me for more details.

Best,
Gregory Conley, JD, MBA
231 Church Road
Medford, NJ 08055
(609) 947 - 8059
Gregory Conley Consulting, LLC
Twitter / LinkedIn

--------------------

A Brief Explanation of why the FDA Deeming Regulation Should Be Opposed
This is NOT good news and vendors and vapers should vehemently OPPOSE these regulations, as they will work to the benefit of large tobacco and e-cigarette companies with Wall Street investors that don't make the products used by 98% of this subreddit's users, while potentially shutting down hundreds or thousands of small and medium-sized businesses thanks to an extremely expensive, resource-heavy, and arbitrary system setup by the Family Smoking Prevention & Tobacco Control Act.

This is actually worse than I expected.

Two years after the regulation is written, e-cigarette companies will have to put in 'new tobacco product' applications for any product released to the market after February 25, 2007.*** This is not mere registration. This is a lengthy and expensive process. If you don't file an application, your product is banned. If you file an application and the FDA finds that your product shouldn't be on the market for one of a variety of reasons (including simply 'You failed to submit adequate evidence of x, y, and z.'), it can be pulled from the market.

After that 2 year date, any new e-cigarette product must be approved by the FDA before it goes to market. If the FDA does not approve your product, it cannot be brought to market. This is not a fast process, as evidenced by a Government Accountability Office report that was highly critical of huge delays that were and still are happening at the FDA Center for Tobacco Products. http://www.gao.gov/assets/660/657451.pdf

For just a sample of what a "new tobacco product" application is like, see here. This a document from when the FDA refused to even file (let alone approve) four "new tobacco product" applications : http://www.fda.gov/downloads/TobaccoProducts/Labeling/MarketingandAdvertising/UCM389515.pdf

Also see this snippet from a Lancet article (behind a paywall) by Dr. Lawrence Deyton, the former Director of the Center for Tobacco Products, in which the burden that will be put on e-cigarette and e-liquid companies is outlined: The burden is on the manufacturer to provide evidence that permitting the produc - Pastebin.com

This is bad news for e-cigarette consumers. The chance of a flavor ban or an online sales ban from the start was never really an option. This prospect was here all along and is not positive.

*** There is also something called "substantial equivalence" which is a smaller, but still expensive, loop to jump through. However, FDA guidance on substantial equivalence, and their past decisions on other applications, indicate that it would be a fruitless effort to prove substantial equivalence for a 2016 e-cig product vs. a 2007 product.

Vapers should not only oppose this deeming regulation, but also support vendors that stick up for their businesses and consumers

Thank you Greg, for your analysis and advice. I wonder if all those ECF members who have decided not to join and support CASAA will now consider changing their tune?
 
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Buggainok

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