how can the FDA possibly ban certain flavors when they are used in food & drink?
Scott Gottlieb Is Preparing Us For the Flavor Ban - Vaping360
Scott Gottlieb Is Preparing Us For the Flavor Ban - Vaping360
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I think you mean how can they successfully ban them. If you force people to buy unflavored all that will happen is people will add flavor later.
What the official is not taking into account is the arrival of ecigs is what caused the dramatic decline in teen smoking in the first place. Does he think that 50% drop will stay if he somehow manages to make ecigs taste nasty? I kinda doubt it. IMHO What he’s really doing is protecting the traditional tobacco industry whether he means to or not.
Apart from
"Gottlieb laments that 31 percent of the surveyed teens say they vape because of the availability of flavors"
being total bs, the teens vape because they can get their hands on ecigs, he totally fails to put teen vaping in perspective. Did the number of teen smokers increase/decrease? For how long did they vape?
Kids will get stuff they're not supposed to and I personally prefer to see them vape than smoke.
There's multiple studies showing there's little to no evidence for nicotine causing an addiction without tobacco and no evidence for teens switching to cigarettes after vaping, those are the fantasies of people who want ecigs regulated out of the market.
There's mass murder going on on a regular basis but let's focus on getting the flavor out of ecigs
"Gottlieb laments that 31 percent of the surveyed teens say they vape because of the availability of flavors"
being total bs, the teens vape because they can get their hands on ecigs, he totally fails to put teen vaping in perspective. Did the number of teen smokers increase/decrease? For how long did they vape?
Kids will get stuff they're not supposed to and I personally prefer to see them vape than smoke.
There's multiple studies showing there's little to no evidence for nicotine causing an addiction without tobacco and no evidence for teens switching to cigarettes after vaping, those are the fantasies of people who want ecigs regulated out of the market.
There's mass murder going on on a regular basis but let's focus on getting the flavor out of ecigs
This is precisely why I have learned to DIY my e-liquids.
The FDA can not prevent me from purchasing concentrated flavorings because they are used in the food industry and by domestic cooks.
What bothers me more than banning flavors is the FDA is hoping to ban "open system" atomizers; commonly known as clearomizers or tanks. They only want us to use "closed systems" like pre-filled cartomizers and cartridges (cigalikes) which can not be "tampered" with (by adding our own flavors). This is why I have several clearomizers, several replacement coil packs, and also have a couple of RBA (rebuildable drip atomizers) so that I can vape whatever e-liquid I desire.
Anyone find it amusing that Big Tobacco has only invested in "closed system" ecig devices like Blu, Vuse, or whatever? What do they know that the rest of the vaping industry doesn't?
The FDA can not prevent me from purchasing concentrated flavorings because they are used in the food industry and by domestic cooks.
bombastinator said:
What bothers me more than banning flavors is the FDA is hoping to ban "open system" atomizers; commonly known as clearomizers or tanks. They only want us to use "closed systems" like pre-filled cartomizers and cartridges (cigalikes) which can not be "tampered" with (by adding our own flavors). This is why I have several clearomizers, several replacement coil packs, and also have a couple of RBA (rebuildable drip atomizers) so that I can vape whatever e-liquid I desire.
Anyone find it amusing that Big Tobacco has only invested in "closed system" ecig devices like Blu, Vuse, or whatever? What do they know that the rest of the vaping industry doesn't?
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Yes, this won't prevent veterans from vaping as they do today, but it will be an additional deterrent to curious smokers and it will be the next thing you hear all the time. "flavors are bad, they even got banned" blabla
This anti-tamper stuff sounds exactly like what sellers of pod systems might want the market to look like.
Maybe if I do some thinking one or two may come to mind
This anti-tamper stuff sounds exactly like what sellers of pod systems might want the market to look like.
Maybe if I do some thinking one or two may come to mind
One needs a license to drive a car. Some under driving-age kids get behind the wheel, and drive cars.
Let's ban cars.
Let's ban cars.
Here it comes. Sigh. I DIY but it's going to be a PITA probably, and more difficult and annoying to get flavors in any type of base. So, once the time comes... I guess I will be figuring it all out.
I knew the FDA had it in for us, and here is rollout.... I'm glad I stocked up on things while I still could. I had NO FAITH whatsoever that the FDA, in any fashion, is looking out for vaping welfare.
Anna
I knew the FDA had it in for us, and here is rollout.... I'm glad I stocked up on things while I still could. I had NO FAITH whatsoever that the FDA, in any fashion, is looking out for vaping welfare.
Anna
Well I for one can offer significant anecdotal evidence that nicotine is addictive by myself using myself. I haven’t smoked a cigarette in over ten years but I will and have gotten nic fits when my vape isn’t availableApart from
"Gottlieb laments that 31 percent of the surveyed teens say they vape because of the availability of flavors"
being total bs, the teens vape because they can get their hands on ecigs, he totally fails to put teen vaping in perspective. Did the number of teen smokers increase/decrease? For how long did they vape?
Kids will get stuff they're not supposed to and I personally prefer to see them vape than smoke.
There's multiple studies showing there's little to no evidence for nicotine causing an addiction without tobacco and no evidence for teens switching to cigarettes after vaping, those are the fantasies of people who want ecigs regulated out of the market.
There's mass murder going on on a regular basis but let's focus on getting the flavor out of ecigs
You smoked tobacco and that got you addicted. Once you're hooked it's a different story.
What "nicotine without tobacco" means is that nicotine isn't addictive to never-smokers. There is evidence in animal studies as well as studies for nicotine in medicines to treat certain conditions in humans.
It's highly unlikely a teen will get addicted to nicotine by exclusively using ecigs.
What "nicotine without tobacco" means is that nicotine isn't addictive to never-smokers. There is evidence in animal studies as well as studies for nicotine in medicines to treat certain conditions in humans.
It's highly unlikely a teen will get addicted to nicotine by exclusively using ecigs.
While theoretically possible I personally rate it as unlikely. I was quit for near ten years when I picked up ecigs. For one thing it breaks the “what we know about biology” rules.
In reading that this sticks out in part of what was said by him.
“Protecting future generations from all nicotine-containing products remains a top priority,”
What vaping will look like in the future is anyone's guess and how far that future is from today is also anyone's guess.
Just glad the Mrs and i were forewarned years back as we been prepared totally for a lifetime to keep enjoying what we like despite any ban that may come into effect.
“Protecting future generations from all nicotine-containing products remains a top priority,”
What vaping will look like in the future is anyone's guess and how far that future is from today is also anyone's guess.
Just glad the Mrs and i were forewarned years back as we been prepared totally for a lifetime to keep enjoying what we like despite any ban that may come into effect.
Adolescents teens, and adults over do caffeine and nic and will get jittery for a few days while doing without. That doesn't hold a candle to smoking addiction, but at the time it sure seems the same to individual.
The government need to stop screwing with people they have enough people burning, bombing, and shooting stuff up
That would be Utopia. I've always wondered if humans would find Utopia boring after a week or so.
I will say it's odd that the flavors are taking the brunt of the "demonization" not nicotine. Never in my wildest dreams would I have thought that was going to be the "big issue." Well, worst case if my choices turn into "tobacco, menthol, and unflavored," I will start vaping menthol or unflavored. But, I also think that we will have to wait and see what happened. I am left with the impression that the FDA head (who I believe secretly vapes, like many a doc, they aren't all so open about it) was once given a bubble gum flavor and didn't like it. Perhaps a cotton candy flavor gunked his coils too fast, and he had to vape for an afternoon on a bad coil? Who knows, I realize this is pure speculation, but surely he is now aware that the CLOSED POD system called JUUL is now calling to the teens, and I rather quite doubt that they are doing it for the FLAVORS. Interesting that it was ignored, tolerated, etc.
Of course, gas station cigalikes underage progresses very nicely to cigarettes once 18... I view gas station cigalikes as almost more "cigarette-like" than the IQOS.
We shall see. I guess....
Anna
Of course, gas station cigalikes underage progresses very nicely to cigarettes once 18... I view gas station cigalikes as almost more "cigarette-like" than the IQOS.
We shall see. I guess....
Anna
*arranges obligatory soap box with the words “why in God’s name can I not avoid any political argument placed in front of me?” On it*
Ironically gigantic amounts of evidence show that The government screwing with people is actually vastly better than the government not screwing with people. That’s how you get places like Hati. I’m not saying it’s good. I’m just saying the alternative is even worse. Small government is just a blind for the very rich eating everyone but each other and always has been. Anarchy is not a stable system.
Ant this is why I was asking about shelf life of flavor concentrates earlier. Maybe we really should be stockpiling those in addition to nicotine.
Well it does but it’s life is generally measured In weeks or months. That’s a quibble though, you are effectively correct.
While the state of anarchy can exist, it's usually somewhat limited. We tend to think of places with either not much government or "bad" governments as "anarchistic" compared to the US. But really, terror cells are pretty focused and governed by their own "set" of rules and requirements.
I think the closest one might get to "anarchy" would be living off the grid, solo, and I, for one, will admit that I would find it deeply, deeply boring.
Also, one function of the government is to exist as a body one can cite when unhappy with ones lot. Ironically, some governments seem to do better with MORE collectivism, not less. The US appears to enjoy a roiling, constantly shifting state of "rules" and "procedures."
Also, whenever I think "anarchy" I think of those times I watched the English government do stuff, and it's not unusual for physical fights to break out, REALLY! At least back then. That tells me that becoming a politician reduces ones level of civility-- almost anywhere at all in the known human world. Seriously, if you want anarchy, go into politics. There are "so many" rules and they get broken, hushed up and reinvented all the time, especially in the US.
The FDA upcoming "ban" on flavors is one such anachronistic act-- taking something they at first seemed positive about, and finding a way to ruin it. The US government somehow seems to have too few rules and too many, all at once. It's why it's stable in my opinion (at least relatively). Politicians can hang out, knowing they will get their chances to "change" "steal" whatever it is they would like to do. Etc.
Anyway, it will be interesting to see the ultimate outcome. I expect almost anything other than sane policy, but I'm a bit of a pessimist at the moment. Even though I just ordered a ton more flavorings yesterday. They won't keep forever. Of course, neither will "this" FDA. So we just gotta get active, personally but also as a group. Here's hoping.
Anna
I think the closest one might get to "anarchy" would be living off the grid, solo, and I, for one, will admit that I would find it deeply, deeply boring.
Also, one function of the government is to exist as a body one can cite when unhappy with ones lot. Ironically, some governments seem to do better with MORE collectivism, not less. The US appears to enjoy a roiling, constantly shifting state of "rules" and "procedures."
Also, whenever I think "anarchy" I think of those times I watched the English government do stuff, and it's not unusual for physical fights to break out, REALLY! At least back then. That tells me that becoming a politician reduces ones level of civility-- almost anywhere at all in the known human world. Seriously, if you want anarchy, go into politics. There are "so many" rules and they get broken, hushed up and reinvented all the time, especially in the US.
The FDA upcoming "ban" on flavors is one such anachronistic act-- taking something they at first seemed positive about, and finding a way to ruin it. The US government somehow seems to have too few rules and too many, all at once. It's why it's stable in my opinion (at least relatively). Politicians can hang out, knowing they will get their chances to "change" "steal" whatever it is they would like to do. Etc.
Anyway, it will be interesting to see the ultimate outcome. I expect almost anything other than sane policy, but I'm a bit of a pessimist at the moment. Even though I just ordered a ton more flavorings yesterday. They won't keep forever. Of course, neither will "this" FDA. So we just gotta get active, personally but also as a group. Here's hoping.
Anna
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