This is how I see it, pre-made could be regulated but DIY would be safe. Worst case scenario would be you need some type of connection to food service to order flavors, which would be ServSafe certified.
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This is how I see it, pre-made could be regulated but DIY would be safe. Worst case scenario would be you need some type of connection to food service to order flavors, which would be ServSafe certified.
The FDA is going after 'flavors' because they already successfully banned their use in cigarettes, so it's not a big stretch to extend that to vaping since that precedent is already set in stone. It's just a easy foot in the door so to speak from their point of view. Since they cannot ban 'flavors' per se from the open market then they will go after what they can control or regulate......ie......vendor made ejuice. Remember all of these sellers have/had to submit applications in order to be able to sell anything that has nicotine in it. Since those requirements have been postponed for who knows how long, they are finding other things to make waves about and reasons to go after vaping. I am viewing this as a testing of what can they get support for. If and when they are successful in getting vendor made juice banned or some sort of regulation on who can sell 'flavored' ejuices, then we will start to see what else they will go after. How long will that take? Who knows? Hopefully it takes forever. What is next after that? Will it be the regulation of free base nicotine(who can buy and from whom?) or the 'open' systems we now all enjoy? Since we are hearing zero comments or remarks about nicotine maybe they already feel that is covered since they were given permission to regulate it in tobacco products and OTC products. So again I totally agree with @Baditude in hitting the nail square on the head. In order to get to their goal of 'closed' systems, they have to chip away everything else. jmho
I feel bad for new vapers and those who have no interest in building or mixing. I started both to feel secure in the knowledge that regardless of the FDA my vape is safe.
DIY and RTAs are something I am SO GLAD I got in on, early. And, thanks to FDA, I have a jillion new flavors arriving in non tester size. Sometimes I wonder if they make these "announcements" to boost vape business. LOL, no I really don't wonder that, but yeah everytime the FDA does an announce, I wind up buying backup RTAs, and flavors, and I have a lot of nic, and will continue to stockpile nic on major holidays!!!
I do wish every vaper knew what may be coming down the pike. They don't, but I figure.... Hopefully they will learn. I used to wish vape shops did more advocacy, but I do also think that's a hard spot to place a new business owner in, and especially given that they likely do NOT want to upset the FDA in any way at this point.
But, I see a tunnel.... Only it doesn't end in a glowing white light, but a closed pod system with "tobacco flavored" juice inside. I refuse to take that ride without fighting back.
Anna
I do wish every vaper knew what may be coming down the pike. They don't, but I figure.... Hopefully they will learn. I used to wish vape shops did more advocacy, but I do also think that's a hard spot to place a new business owner in, and especially given that they likely do NOT want to upset the FDA in any way at this point.
But, I see a tunnel.... Only it doesn't end in a glowing white light, but a closed pod system with "tobacco flavored" juice inside. I refuse to take that ride without fighting back.
Anna
I gradually cut the nicotine down - took less than a year to get to -0-. I don't even vape much anymore -- even that reduced by itself. I still do vape occasionally - just because I like the feeling of the vapor in my mouth. I let my instinct guide me on the nic - when the taste started tasting "sharp" I reduced it some. Easy-peasy for me.
I don't see how "flavors" could be regulated since they're used in candy making, as well as bakeries and restaurants.
In fact, I don't understand why the vaping industry didn't get a lobbyist to show the regulators there is NO tobacco product in any part of e-cigs except nicotine (and I don't think that's even a tobacco product, since it's being manufactured). Even so, they should have been shown the idiocy of trying to call the whole device a "nicotine delivery" device -- mine wasn't delivering nicotine when they first "deemed" it so -- should have made the commissioners and their "experts" look like fools instead of capitulating to the falsehood of a tobacco product and/or nicotine delivery device.
The agency could legitimately regulate the nicotine content since that might be considered a tobacco product.
It's not too late to get a rule change.
Because compared to big tobacco the vaping industry is laughably minute.
Not exactly -- they've just got lobbyists -- but if even a substantial number of vapers would realize that together they have a good chance of making a change in the regs, they/we would outnumber their lobbyists.
I've successfully lobbied in the past (not paid), and the key is "preparation." Know ALL the facts and arguments - from both sides, to be able to counter anything and everything the opposition says or has said.
I realized that legislators (and regulators are legislating) get so inundated with some things they forget what should be obvious. Example: I was pushing a bill that got stuck because one senator thought the signature requirements should be increased to prevent big money from driving the process - I finally got the opportunity to say (in a subcommittee meeting) "but Senator xxx the more signatures you require the more you insure that ONLY big money can utilize the process." His eyes got big, he said "I didn't think of that" - and he dropped his objection. The key was knowing his objection, and knowing "how" to challenge it. __ Too many people think they can just say "vote no" or "vote yes" or send form letters to influence their legislators -- all those responses go into a pile that is just a pile of paper and that's about what they're worth.
As with most things, preparation is the key to success.
Does everyone seriously think this is actually going to happen? The ridiculousness of it all is astounding. There have to be some 'higher-up' people who are closet vapers that would fight it, no?
....
What is truly frustrating is them referring to e-cigs as a tobacco product. Something else they are aware is BS. "They" have the entire world brainwashed to think that nicotine is the evil ingredient in cigarettes. It's not! Nicotine might be addictive to some, but there are no known long term side-effects from its use. People are addicted to all kinds of stuff that is harmful (alcohol, fast food/junk food, cheese, sugar, salt, coffee....) but they freak out at the word "nicotine." Has anyone noticed that now, when you look at life insurance rates, they used to have 2 rates - tobacco and non-tobacco. Now it says 'nicotine and non-nicotine." That is infuriating to me.
....
Same. Actually 20. I smoked from age 15 to age 27. Was a fervent 'anti-smoker' (one of those annoying types) until I just kind of decided not to judge and get freaked out/disgusted anytime anyone smokes. Live & let live, just keep it outside. Then I met a someone who vaped almost 3 yrs ago. Me being me, I was like "Whatcha got in there? Gimme some!" LOL . I vape now for the simple fact that I enjoy it. It has not once, ever, had me considering picking up a cigarette. The logic behind vaping leading to smoking cigs is completely not valid and they know it. They're just not happy they're not making any $$ off of it.
What is truly frustrating is them referring to e-cigs as a tobacco product. Something else they are aware is BS. "They" have the entire world brainwashed to think that nicotine is the evil ingredient in cigarettes. It's not! Nicotine might be addictive to some, but there are no known long term side-effects from its use. People are addicted to all kinds of stuff that is harmful (alcohol, fast food/junk food, cheese, sugar, salt, coffee....) but they freak out at the word "nicotine." Has anyone noticed that now, when you look at life insurance rates, they used to have 2 rates - tobacco and non-tobacco. Now it says 'nicotine and non-nicotine." That is infuriating to me.
Simple, require some type of certification that shows you are from the industry allowed to purchase that item.
You are obviously new to the party.
CASAA has been lobbying for vapors since the beginning of the FDA Deeming. The problem for our vaping community is the powers that be have their own agenda and are deaf to logic and reality, and choose to focus on "junk science" that was created by the pharmaceutical and big tobacco companies that financially support the FDA. The court has been rigged against vapers from the very beginning. Just follow the money.
The FDA considers anything that goes into an e-cigarette device to "potentially" contain nicotine. This is why they are opposed to "open systems", meaning tanks and clearomizers which the user can fill with their choice of e-liqud. Flavors in e-liquid is just icing on the cake for the FDA -- "We must protect the children who might be enticed by candy and fruit flavors". There are already laws on the books that restrict e-cigs to children, but that isn't in the FDA's scope to understand.
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Vapre's do not provide a large enough tax base to turn the head any government official.
Not yet... But every day... A little bit closer. If the FDA is paying attention, at some point lawmakers are going to get involved. First, we will have "safe" vaping. Next, we will have "taxed and safe" vaping. One of the reasons I save my coilheads. When that time comes, even if it's the husband doing it, there will be a rebuilding party. He can rebuild, *I* will entertain him with "Interpretive dance" against the FDA, and "Performance Art" against our local, state, and federal government.
Fight the POWERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And be prepared, when you lose.
That's my motto, anyway.
Anna
Fight the POWERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And be prepared, when you lose.
That's my motto, anyway.
Anna
I've slowly learned to be a pretty self sufficient vaper, kind of hard to get too excited by it all.
We need to get excited and stay excited!!!! If not for ourselves, for vapers to come. It would be so sad if there was this "Renaissance" in vaping with all this cool stuff happening, totally quashed by the FDA, and we wind up with nothing left other than (illegal) importation and closed, Marlboro flavored pods with 12 mg/ml.
So okay, yeah, I probably have what I need to get by (minus a bit more nic) and well, stuff like PG/VG will be around.... But I think of all the fun I had learning this stuff, and I don't think that the "unenthusiastic" vaper is the majority of vapers.
So yeah, it's hard to get excited, but we do have to try! I'd like to continue buying new stuff (my past tells me this is probable, although I'm hoping not at the same RATE) and etc.....
Anna
So okay, yeah, I probably have what I need to get by (minus a bit more nic) and well, stuff like PG/VG will be around.... But I think of all the fun I had learning this stuff, and I don't think that the "unenthusiastic" vaper is the majority of vapers.
So yeah, it's hard to get excited, but we do have to try! I'd like to continue buying new stuff (my past tells me this is probable, although I'm hoping not at the same RATE) and etc.....
Anna
The FDA regulates many things and before Gottlieb took the helm of the FDA I saw him many times on news interviews and he is VERY smart and engaged. He's on a mission and I'm sure he will make mistakes along the way, and if they ban flavors, that will be one for sure. I have a 14 year old son and since I vape & build, he completely understands how it works, he keeps me posted on vaping activity at school - it is rampant, and almost exclusively on Juuls. This is sexy for kids because of the nic, flavor and Pax Labs, who makes the Juul product, and took off because of their Pax device (made for dried "herb"...AKA pot) and I suspect that connection attracts kids.
I remember being 14 (39 years ago) and almost half the girls were smoking cigs and about 1/4 of the boys. I'm glad they are Juuling and not smoking - we're making progress. I'll agree with what several other ECF members have posted - any action taken will likely be related to pre-flavored juice, possibly even just closed systems. I think if you're mixing your juice you have nothing to worry about. No need to stockpile flavors if you are doing DIY juice. If the FDA bans flavors, or takes some other illogical action, I may have to re-evaluate my opinion of Gottlieb. The solution is to make fines so high for distributors and retailers who sell to minors that it would risk their ability to continue operations. I hope I'm right.
I remember being 14 (39 years ago) and almost half the girls were smoking cigs and about 1/4 of the boys. I'm glad they are Juuling and not smoking - we're making progress. I'll agree with what several other ECF members have posted - any action taken will likely be related to pre-flavored juice, possibly even just closed systems. I think if you're mixing your juice you have nothing to worry about. No need to stockpile flavors if you are doing DIY juice. If the FDA bans flavors, or takes some other illogical action, I may have to re-evaluate my opinion of Gottlieb. The solution is to make fines so high for distributors and retailers who sell to minors that it would risk their ability to continue operations. I hope I'm right.
I agree the main problem is rather a failing age verification system than the product itself. I don't know of any company that purposely advertises to minors, be it juice or hardware. The vast majority of users is 30+ years old and almost all of them are former smokers.
Minors will be able to get anything they want, it's just a question of how easy it is for them, it's impossible to guarantee that no single minor in the US can obtain an e cigarette. The potential damage involved is, to present knowledge, minuscule at best, especially when compared to cigarettes, the addictiveness to never smokers of nicotine alone without tobacco is questionable, the gateway theory is make-believe without evidence (there's even evidence against it).
Regulating ecigs to save the children is an irresponsible dishonest tactic, it's basically the only thing "they" have left.
The FDA may not be able to ban flavors from the market altogether, but they could e.g. prevent places that sell ecigs from also selling flavors and prohibit labeling/advertising that would indicate a designation for use in our devices.
As pointed out before, for veterans this will change only little but for new users and smokers that want to switch it could make all the difference, flavors are a major part of the attractiveness of vaping. I know I wouldn't have been able to switch with some crappy tasting or flavorless liquid, flavors played a big part in my transition from smoking and I'd like to see that preserved for future switchers.
Minors will be able to get anything they want, it's just a question of how easy it is for them, it's impossible to guarantee that no single minor in the US can obtain an e cigarette. The potential damage involved is, to present knowledge, minuscule at best, especially when compared to cigarettes, the addictiveness to never smokers of nicotine alone without tobacco is questionable, the gateway theory is make-believe without evidence (there's even evidence against it).
Regulating ecigs to save the children is an irresponsible dishonest tactic, it's basically the only thing "they" have left.
The FDA may not be able to ban flavors from the market altogether, but they could e.g. prevent places that sell ecigs from also selling flavors and prohibit labeling/advertising that would indicate a designation for use in our devices.
As pointed out before, for veterans this will change only little but for new users and smokers that want to switch it could make all the difference, flavors are a major part of the attractiveness of vaping. I know I wouldn't have been able to switch with some crappy tasting or flavorless liquid, flavors played a big part in my transition from smoking and I'd like to see that preserved for future switchers.
Me too. Would hate it I mean. If I were stuck with tobacco and menthol vapes, switching would have been way harder, I think. I mean, I THINK. Part of the problem is, now that I've started DIY, I know how great an awesome flavor would be. I don't care if I don't vape bubble gum and skittles, but I have a very lovely and wonderful English Trifle flavor and that is alcohol flavored too. I can just see the FDA going on about that one... Sigh.
Anna
Anna
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