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FDA Deeming Proposal effect on Tobacco Extraction ?

Discussion in 'Liquid Extraction From Tobacco' started by PapawBrett, Jul 9, 2016.

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  1. PapawBrett

    PapawBrett Travelin' Man Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Jul 16, 2012
    Monroe NC
    I will probably be placing these questions in several forums, and will most likely be wrong at least once.
    As someone who extracts his own Tobacco Flavors, I am simply asking for a little clarification.
    Do the FDA Deeming regulations inhibit, in any way, the purchase of Pipe Tobaccos ?
    Do the FDA Deeming regulations inhibit, in any way, the purchase of Cigars ?
    Do the FDA Deeming regulations inhibit, in any way, the purchase of Bulk Tobaccos ?
    I am not a Lawyer, a Politician, or any other form of Professional Thief. I am just an old truck driver who would like a few plain and simple answers.
    Any and all assistance would be Appreciated, Thanks. PapawBrett
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Exchaner

    Exchaner Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 29, 2013
    California
    I heard from another thread that existing tobacco products prior to a certain date will not be affected. Newer products may be affected. Perhaps someone with better knowledge could clarify.
     
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  3. Str8vision

    Str8vision Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 26, 2013
    Sallisaw, Oklahoma USA
    The way I understand it -all- pipe tobacco and cigars introduced after 2007 will need to seek FDA approval just like vaping items. However, since there were "essentially similar" items in existence prior to 2007 (pipe tobacco and cigars) I don't think those introduced post 2007 will need to file full PTMAs for FDA approval but I'm not sure. Several small tobacconists have already announced they will stop custom blending in-house pipe tobaccos as a result of the FDA's new rules. I've inquired to several major tobacco manufacturers but none have provided a response clarifying what impact the FDA's deeming regulations will have on their product lines. Just like vape shops, they simply don't want to discuss it.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Robert Cromwell

    Robert Cromwell Moved On ECF Veteran

    Feb 16, 2015
    elsewhere
    I expect that soon the loophole for not taxing "Pipe Tobacco" like cigarette tobacco will end soon. As the vast majority of it sold is used to make roll your own cigarettes.
    The old re-labeling trick will only work for so long.

    but yes I expect that one will still be able to buy tobacco to extract from.
     
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  5. Robert Cromwell

    Robert Cromwell Moved On ECF Veteran

    Feb 16, 2015
    elsewhere
    However since NET did not exist as a product prior to 2007 any extracts will not be allowed to be sold without PMTA approval.
     
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  6. Str8vision

    Str8vision Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 26, 2013
    Sallisaw, Oklahoma USA
    Ready made retail NETs are likely an endangered species. NET vendors could spend millions of dollars seeking approval but even after such a massive cash outlay FDA acceptance is a gamble at best.... One of the reasons why I've invested years learning how to extract/mix my own, takes the government out of the equation ;)


    Even if they manage to triple the price of cigars and pipe tobacco NET would still be embarrassingly inexpensive to make, currently it takes around $10 worth of "premium" tobacco to make a -liter- of NET. The only way the government could rain on my parade is if they banned the sale of tobacco outright and they're -far- too greedy/self-serving to do that. :lol:
     
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  7. kbriggs

    kbriggs Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 24, 2014
    Houston, Texas
    I was wondering this myself. If you look on the home page at www.leafonly.com, you'll find this:

    Will this statement still be true after August 8?
     
    • Like Like x 5
  8. Str8vision

    Str8vision Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 26, 2013
    Sallisaw, Oklahoma USA
    Here's an old link to P&C's overview of the deeming's impact on pipe tobacco and cigars,
    http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwj0_76HuOnNAhVM0YMKHQXvBnYQFggxMAM&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pipesandcigars.com%2Fpage%2Ffda-regulation-comments&usg=AFQjCNF30Er1jUxHJxBnpIWlTKNjrAuC9g

    Last week P&C notified customers their house blends (H&H Marquee) would be discontinued this August. Other on-line tobacconists have issued similar warnings. So far it's just small custom blenders that are bailing out but like the statement indicates many of todays pipe blends and cigars are short, limited run products.
     
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  9. PapawBrett

    PapawBrett Travelin' Man Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Jul 16, 2012
    Monroe NC
    I emailed pipes and cigars.com to ask about the effect that the FDA Deeming Regulations might have.
    They replied that this "Mix your own Blend" will end August 1st, and Russ' Blends will be ending around the end of December.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Sugar_and_Spice

    Sugar_and_Spice ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Sep 11, 2010
    between here and there
    Forgive my ignorance, but could you possibly link to your procedure? Or is it something you don't share? And does your version of 'NET' contain nic? If these questions make you uncomfortable, just tell me (us) and no hard feelings. K?
    And yes, I am posting this without the benefit of going back and reading all of the previous post. my bad.
    :)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Str8vision

    Str8vision Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 26, 2013
    Sallisaw, Oklahoma USA

    There are several methods available for extracting flavor from tobacco and making NET. The method I recommend most people try (at least for your first attempts) is simple room temperature extraction using PG as the extraction solvent, there's no real way to mess up using this method, it's bullet-proof. Here's a link to an informative thread that discusses cold (room temperature) extraction; Cold maceration of tobacco Another popular method involves heating the PG to expedite flavor extraction, here's a link to a thread that discusses the details; Slow Cooker Extraction of Tobacco and Tea My current preferred method for making NET involves using heated ethanol (pure grain alcohol) as the extraction solvent and the thread for that can be found here; Tobacco extraction using heated Ethanol If you need assistance or have questions just shoot me a PM or post in the sub forum, there are many helpful, friendly and knowledgeable people willing to help.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  12. Sugar_and_Spice

    Sugar_and_Spice ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Sep 11, 2010
    between here and there
    Thank you so much.
    :)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. nostradadus

    nostradadus Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 6, 2014
    Now is the time to buy a couple of pounds worth of your favorite "custom blends" and cellar them for the future. I purchase a Va/Per/Lata blend from my local tobacconist which I find it hard to live without. I have a 5 lb. standing order with him, prior to his cut off date. ;)
     
  14. seminolewind

    seminolewind Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    If the FDA could control the air we breathe and tax it, they would.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. PapawBrett

    PapawBrett Travelin' Man Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Jul 16, 2012
    Monroe NC
    It's called "Cap and Trade", a mandated limit on Greenhouse gases imposed upon businesses and industries. Although I think it's the EPA that is after that.
     
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