Without a doubt, I agree completely. In fact I've already emailed Rush, along with my local and federal representatives. I plan on sending snail mail on Monday too.
FDA seizing new shipments
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Without a doubt, I agree completely. In fact I've already emailed Rush, along with my local and federal representatives. I plan on sending snail mail on Monday too.
I understand that there are probably as many Rush *haters* as there are Rush *lovers*, but hey, I don't care if he's the Abominable Snowman - as long as he makes news. And few are in the news these days as much as Rush! LOL
Has the FDA ever seized packages from USA vendors, or is it all the "orders from China" stuff? Now, don't get me wrong, the FDA seizing these things drives our costs up, since the vendors have to deal with the seizures. So go ahead and object. But, as to your personal supplies, what's the big deal? Just order from USA vendors (if you are in the USA) and you shouldn't have an issue.
I don't happen to agree with the FDA seizures. The courts don't seem to either. I do agree with, (and feel sorry for) LynGBH and any others that are appalled by anti-government hate speech in all forms. Remember, if you hate the Government, change it. "government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth" - so change it! Get rid of the PACs.... and reform financing. That should help! And do it by legal means, not "by any means necessary" as was quoted. Balance and civility are the order of the day here.
I am repeatedly impressed by CASAA, Vocalek and others (many of the posters on the forum) using their opinions and the political process to effect change regarding PV usage and legislation. Keep up the good work! A positive, non destructive way to direct any anger, frustrations, and concern. Unfortunately, such efforts often require time and patience.
Fear not! The growing popularity of e-cigs, the fighting of misinformation, and the education of the population will win out in the end. Patience!
I don't happen to agree with the FDA seizures. The courts don't seem to either. I do agree with, (and feel sorry for) LynGBH and any others that are appalled by anti-government hate speech in all forms. Remember, if you hate the Government, change it. "government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth" - so change it! Get rid of the PACs.... and reform financing. That should help! And do it by legal means, not "by any means necessary" as was quoted. Balance and civility are the order of the day here.
I am repeatedly impressed by CASAA, Vocalek and others (many of the posters on the forum) using their opinions and the political process to effect change regarding PV usage and legislation. Keep up the good work! A positive, non destructive way to direct any anger, frustrations, and concern. Unfortunately, such efforts often require time and patience.
Fear not! The growing popularity of e-cigs, the fighting of misinformation, and the education of the population will win out in the end. Patience!
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I bet some US vendors order from outside the US, e.g. China. So that means that US vendors orders get seized. Big loss for vendors, supply shortage to consumbers, encouragement to fda.
I am a member of CASAA. Anyone else?
I am a member of CASAA. Anyone else?
I bet some US vendors order from outside the US, e.g. China. So that means that US vendors orders get seized. Big loss for vendors, supply shortage to consumbers, encouragement to fda.
I am a member of CASAA. Anyone else?
Agreed. They DO order from China. That's why I said it drives our costs up, and I'm concerned about it. OTHO, we should not experience many, if any, shortages from the USA vendors. Sometimes there is a bit of delay. They re-order quickly. If they (the FDA guys) go too "hog wild" on the seizures, it could be trouble. IDK why they are seizing them... random "spot" checks for DEG or some such? Otherwise, besides the juice, it's just electronics. Maybe the vendors can separate their orders into "juice containing" and "hardware"????? Anyone know if that matters?
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If only we lived in a perfect world where you could tell the FDA en masse that you disagree with them and they would say "Really? Oh, OK, we will reverse our policy on electronic cigarettes then". Such is wishful thinking.
The govt and it's cronies pretend your opinion doesn't exist, they block their ears to it, then when you raise your voice they call you a 'dangerous radical element'.
How? By voting out the incumbents at the next election and replacing them with similarly tinnitus ridden politicians? Why can't people grasp the fact that they are entrapped in a catch 22 of replacing one corrupt person with another every 2 years?
Fighting the misinformation is great, and that is our only option. Don't think for one second that we will get the FDA to back off though, because we won't. Getting enough people to switch to vaping and just hoping the tax burden isn't put out of the average person's reach is the best we can hope for.
Well, Scribbles, I take your points. I'm a little more optimistic about the future of e-cigs, I guess. I think we will win out in the end.
We do have to remember that although we are an opinionated group (myself in particular!) that we are a minority.... smokers and vapers. Thus, we tend to bear the brunt of the "sin taxes" and "anti-anything-that-looks-like-smoke" crowd. Look at Alcohol... kills a lot of people. Not as heavily taxed, nor constantly confiscated (not that I want it to be, mind you). So, in reality, it's about the numbers... % of voting population. Oh, and the money grabs too.
I think if we can educate the population on the benefits of e-cigs for non-smokers, non-vapers it might help. No carcinogens from 2nd hand or "3rd hand" (hate that term) smoke.
What I really can't figure out, is WHY so anti-e-cig? The USA is looking closely at health care costs, trying to get a handle on them, and no matter what side of the argument you are on, everyone wants to get a handle on the costs, businesses in particular. We disagree as to how. Now, we have e-cigs, which could be the greatest boost to national health since aspirin, and they try to BAN it. Can't figure it, unless it's the money-grab/taxes issue. And if it really gets down to that, it would be shameful for all Americans. There must be a motivation in addition to that. What does the FDA say?
EDIT: Thought: The FDA is in a tough spot to some degree too.... If they ignore e-cigs, they risk not doing their job. Remember that we don't have decades of research on e-cig use. OTOH, the courts have said they can't regulate them like drug devices (possibly to the FDA's delight...think about it) so they have little control over them. Yet they still confiscate them. If it were a liability issue, why would they not just take the judicial ruling as an abdication of responsibility? If they feel there is a real health issue, rather than gain, what is the issue?
We do have to remember that although we are an opinionated group (myself in particular!) that we are a minority.... smokers and vapers. Thus, we tend to bear the brunt of the "sin taxes" and "anti-anything-that-looks-like-smoke" crowd. Look at Alcohol... kills a lot of people. Not as heavily taxed, nor constantly confiscated (not that I want it to be, mind you). So, in reality, it's about the numbers... % of voting population. Oh, and the money grabs too.
I think if we can educate the population on the benefits of e-cigs for non-smokers, non-vapers it might help. No carcinogens from 2nd hand or "3rd hand" (hate that term) smoke.
What I really can't figure out, is WHY so anti-e-cig? The USA is looking closely at health care costs, trying to get a handle on them, and no matter what side of the argument you are on, everyone wants to get a handle on the costs, businesses in particular. We disagree as to how. Now, we have e-cigs, which could be the greatest boost to national health since aspirin, and they try to BAN it. Can't figure it, unless it's the money-grab/taxes issue. And if it really gets down to that, it would be shameful for all Americans. There must be a motivation in addition to that. What does the FDA say?
EDIT: Thought: The FDA is in a tough spot to some degree too.... If they ignore e-cigs, they risk not doing their job. Remember that we don't have decades of research on e-cig use. OTOH, the courts have said they can't regulate them like drug devices (possibly to the FDA's delight...think about it) so they have little control over them. Yet they still confiscate them. If it were a liability issue, why would they not just take the judicial ruling as an abdication of responsibility? If they feel there is a real health issue, rather than gain, what is the issue?
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I think it is smokers we need to educate personally. Your average Joe Shmoe non-smoker doesn't want to breath in anything other than smog and traffic pollution. [SARCASM]It's their constitutional right, don't ya know?[/SARCASM]
I think 30m ex-smokers, converted to vaping, will carry a lot of weight with legislators. Telling all your smoking friends about how they won't know the difference in taste and satisfaction between this and tobacco is the best way forward IMO.
I know someone that wouldn't try my e-cig because she thought it might put her off of smoking. Go figure? lol
When the Post Office opens back up on Tuesday, I am sending copies of the following letter to Congressman Gerry E. Connolly, Senator Jim Webb, and Senator Mark Warner of Virginia. With margins set at 0.75 all around and font of Times New Roman 11, it just managed to fit on one page. I included my name, address, and home phone number.
I believe with FDA, it is an issue of control. The more they control, the more important they feel. It is incorrect that the FDA has little control over the safety of the products. Judge Leon stated that the FDA can take care of any product safety issues it might have by regulating the products under the Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act ("Tobacco Act.") This opinion was upheld by the U.S. District Court of Appeals.
If all FDA cared about was public health, it would be promulgating regulations for manufacturing standards, labeling, etc. under the Tobacco Act. FDA wants to regulate them under FDCA so that it can say, "Take these off the market until you spend millions of dollars and about 10 years of testing to meet requirements for the New Drug Approval process."
And I don't believe that anyone in the FDA gives a Fiddler's Damn about expenditures by other agencies or by individual citizens. The more power they hang on to, the more Federal budget dollars they can claim.
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So far, the only seizures have been products from China under Import Alert #66-41. Import Alert 66-41
The FDA does have the authority to go out warehouses and stores domestically and grab products off the shelves if the products are infected or adulterated. So far, it has not exercised this authority on e-cigarette products.
I have to wonder if they have the manpower to hit every 7-11 in the U.S., not to mention tracking down all the Internet vendors, many of which are not even located in the U.S.
I too wrote my Congressman and both Senators thanks to Vocalek's excellent form letter. It really made the process sooooo much easier and to the point. Thanks Elaine!!
Everyone listen up!!
Please send your elected representatives a personalized copy of Vocalek's letter she has posted in this thread. This stepped up confiscation policy by the fDa needs to be stopped by any means necessary.
I contacted my senator, but unfortunately, my congressman got shot in the head.
I totally agree with you that we will win out in the end.
Regarding your observations about anger towards the government (in all forums)...
If we all thought alike and had the same emotions... this would be a boring world
We The People, Power of the Vote, the Constitution, and the Bill of Rights
Many of us were not political advocates prior to switching to E-cigarettes
The threat of banning E-cigarettes got our attention and then we discovered
many things we were taught in school about our rights and the Power of the Vote
didn't apply to E-cigarettes. We then discovered the FDA approves drugs
that kill thousands and is not protecting us and answers only to the drug industry.
The core of the anger you have noticed in all forums... isn't so much focused on
E-cigarettes as it is focused on people's frustrations when discovering their rights
and vote really means little to nothing!
___________________
The corner stone of our Constitution is the separation of powers. Our founding fathers were devoted to the notion that power, to avoid tyranny, the Executive, Legislative and Judicial has to be in separate power centers. James Madison said "If any 2 of those 3 powers were ever combined in a single person that would be the very definition of tyranny".
Three quarters of all laws made by the Federal Government are not made by our elected representatives, as the Constitution requires, but are in-acted by Un-elected people who run the independent regulatory commission.
The commissioner of the FDA can create law by creating regulation, can enforce the law against those that the FDA claims violated it, and can judge the violation.
So... The FDA is All Powerful with in it's sphere.
Question
Why would it be in the best interest for our politicians to delegate power to the FDA (and other regulatory agencies)?
Answer
To avoid responsibility and accountability for their actions. Congress is constantly confronted with controversial issues. If they take a position on either side of these issues they will alienate a significant part of the electorate and thus risk re-election and their objective is to be constantly re-elected to be permanent members of congress, they love their job.
When they delegate this power away, they avoid making the tough choices and they can take credit for overall beneficial picture. For example: If I'm a member of congress I will vote in favor of clean water or clean air and will appropriate massive sums but on the dirty business of shutting down a factory and putting people out of work... well, EPA will implement it and EPA will be responsible for that... If a constituent writes complaining about losing their job.... The representative will simply say "I'm upset about that" and shove the blame off on EPA. There is no legal consequence.
There is No Power in this whole process because its been delegated away. The governing power of the United States is in the hands of these Un-elected people and they are making the laws and this is a permanent government.
Source (all of the above below the line): Attorney Jonathan Emord
It's a nice warm and fuzzy thought to believe what we learned in grade school about We The People having the power of the vote to effect change. However, the only Power on Earth over the FDA is the courts (not our elected officials). Need I say more including pointing out their track record?
We have absolutely no power over the FDA. We didn't elect them and we can't vote them out of office. Our elected officials may talk big about reform, but will do little.
It makes absolutely NO difference to the FDA if we are in the majority or the minority.
Who do we call... Ghost Busters?
Superman used to fight for Truth, Justice, and the American way-of-life
however he retired
Soon the FDA and Monsanto will be in charge of the world’s food supply (shiver)…
but that subject has been deemed off-topic.
Who is ultimately to blame? We The People.
We The People wanted a Nanny State and They gave it to us
Now we want our government back... Well, "Twinkle twinkle little star...."
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You are describing 'plausible deniability' there. People making unaccountable decisions on behalf of the Govt.
It seems to me that they are targeting e-cigarette companies that have made claims of being a smoking cesation device.
Nope. Both of the companies that filed the lawsuit very specifically made no such claims. The FDA is not naming vendors (destination) in the Import Alert. The Import Alert names the companies in China shipping the goods here.
The FDA's viewpoint, expressed in their legal filings is "The products contain nicotine. We regulate other products that contain nicotine as drugs or drug-delivery device combinations, therefore these are a drug."
I contacted my senator, but unfortunately, my congressman got shot in the head.
What happened there is truly sad, and frustrating that we have nothing in place to stop such things from happening in the first place. It is such a blessing, though, that she seems to be making a very rapid recovery.
Check this out everyone...Im reposting this with a link to my Facebook!!!
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