FDA seizing new shipments

[Maxwell_Edison]

The FDA is determined to make us die from cigarettes and they have plenty of help via Big Pharma money: FDA Files New Appeal on E-Cigarettes - WSJ.com

 

[lowboy]

Sent e-mails to all three.
Thanks for the links. That helped alot.

 

[Luisa]

I totally agree with you that we will win out in the end.

Regarding your observations about anger towards the government (in all forums)...

If we all thought alike and had the same emotions... this would be a boring world

We The People, Power of the Vote, the Constitution, and the Bill of Rights

Many of us were not political advocates prior to switching to E-cigarettes

The threat of banning E-cigarettes got our attention and then we discovered
many things we were taught in school about our rights and the Power of the Vote
didn't apply to E-cigarettes. We then discovered the FDA approves drugs
that kill thousands and is not protecting us and answers only to the drug industry.

The core of the anger you have noticed in all forums... isn't so much focused on
E-cigarettes as it is focused on people's frustrations when discovering their rights
and vote really means little to nothing!
___________________

The corner stone of our Constitution is the separation of powers. Our founding fathers were devoted to the notion that power, to avoid tyranny, the Executive, Legislative and Judicial has to be in separate power centers. James Madison said "If any 2 of those 3 powers were ever combined in a single person that would be the very definition of tyranny".

Three quarters of all laws made by the Federal Government are not made by our elected representatives, as the Constitution requires, but are in-acted by Un-elected people who run the independent regulatory commission.

The commissioner of the FDA can create law by creating regulation, can enforce the law against those that the FDA claims violated it, and can judge the violation.

So... The FDA is All Powerful with in it's sphere.

Question

Why would it be in the best interest for our politicians to delegate power to the FDA (and other regulatory agencies)?

Answer

To avoid responsibility and accountability for their actions. Congress is constantly confronted with controversial issues. If they take a position on either side of these issues they will alienate a significant part of the electorate and thus risk re-election and their objective is to be constantly re-elected to be permanent members of congress, they love their job.

When they delegate this power away, they avoid making the tough choices and they can take credit for overall beneficial picture. For example: If I'm a member of congress I will vote in favor of clean water or clean air and will appropriate massive sums but on the dirty business of shutting down a factory and putting people out of work... well, EPA will implement it and EPA will be responsible for that... If a constituent writes complaining about losing their job.... The representative will simply say "I'm upset about that" and shove the blame off on EPA. There is no legal consequence.

There is No Power in this whole process because its been delegated away. The governing power of the United States is in the hands of these Un-elected people and they are making the laws and this is a permanent government.

Source (all of the above below the line): Attorney Jonathan Emord

It's a nice warm and fuzzy thought to believe what we learned in grade school about We The People having the power of the vote to effect change. However, the only Power on Earth over the FDA is the courts (not our elected officials). Need I say more including pointing out their track record?

We have absolutely no power over the FDA. We didn't elect them and we can't vote them out of office. Our elected officials may talk big about reform, but will do little.

It makes absolutely NO difference to the FDA if we are in the majority or the minority.

Who do we call... Ghost Busters?

Superman used to fight for Truth, Justice, and the American way-of-life
however he retired

Soon the FDA and Monsanto will be in charge of the world’s food supply (shiver)…
but that subject has been deemed off-topic.

Who is ultimately to blame? We The People.

We The People wanted a Nanny State and They gave it to us
Now we want our government back... Well, "Twinkle twinkle little star...."

Jeb Bush,in a recent interview,made some interesting points on Government Agencies and their regulation and interpretation power. He felt their needed to be a review of every agency along with the legislation creating the agency and the legal powers given to the agencies. He felt they all needed review and if necessary Congress should clarify and limit the agencies power to "legislate". Maybe even sunset some agencies. He is quite right,of course, but I cannot see this ever happening. The bureaucrats do not want to give up their power or their job! Actually,in some cases with help from activists, they could "do in" some politician who tried to restrain them or sunset their agency.

 

[Petrodus]

Jeb Bush,in a recent interview,made some interesting points on Government Agencies and their regulation and interpretation power. He felt their needed to be a review of every agency along with the legislation creating the agency and the legal powers given to the agencies. He felt they all needed review and if necessary Congress should clarify and limit the agencies power to "legislate". Maybe even sunset some agencies. He is quite right,of course, but I cannot see this ever happening. The bureaucrats do not want to give up their power or their job! Actually,in some cases with help from activists, they could "do in" some politician who tried to restrain them or sunset their agency.

Reality is a hard pill to swallow

 

[kristin]

I posted a Call to Action on CASAA's Facebook page using Elaine's excellent posts: CASAA on Facebook - Call to Action!

This is an excellent opportunity to show our elected officials that, unlike when we were smokers, vapers have no intention to sulk away while muttering to ourselves as our rights to make personal decisions for our lives are taken away!

 

[mactrekr]

Well, now I know what "MIGHT" have happened to my order from Sinrowsun. I ordered on December 1st, and tracking shows it in the never never land between Chinese customs and USPS. Anyone know how I can tell for sure that my order has been seized?

 

[ManicMaurice]

Well, now I know what "MIGHT" have happened to my order from Sinrowsun. I ordered on December 1st, and tracking shows it in the never never land between Chinese customs and USPS. Anyone know how I can tell for sure that my order has been seized?

Apparently USPS/UPS/FedEx/EMS/Etc will send you a letter if you shipment is seized by customs.

 

[BCB]

This is an excellent opportunity to show our elected officials that, unlike when we were smokers, vapers have no intention to sulk away while muttering to ourselves as our rights to make personal decisions for our lives are taken away!

I agree, Kristin. We allowed ourselves to be relegated to the outskirts because we didn't want to harm/annoy others and they just kept pushing us farther and farther down. We were guilty because we agreed that smoking wasn't a very smart thing to do, yet we did it anyway. But now we have no guilt/shame and we feel "allowed" to stand up for our rights. Letters sent today. Thanks for the links and excellent example letters which made it much easier to do.

 

[Petrodus]

It is interesting to see that the FDA's "modus operandi" has been consistent...
Label anything that doesn't come from one of their sponsors as a "new drug",
seize it, and then attempt to bully the company out of existence.

 

[ManicMaurice]

It is interesting to see that the FDA's "modus operandi" has been consistent...
Label anything that doesn't come from one of their sponsors as a "new drug",
seize it, and then attempt to bully the company out of existence.

The implications of this are really frightening. I really would hate to see the mom and pop small vendor system we currently have be replaced by only big box retailers.

 

[Petrodus]

The implications of this are really frightening. I really would hate to see the mom and pop small vendor system we currently have be replaced by only big box retailers.

Implications... ???

It's the core of their "Business Plan"

 

[ManicMaurice]

Implications... ???

It's the core of their "Business Plan"

Unfortunately you are 100% right about this and it stinks. America has some great mod builders and some great juice mixers, but when it comes to traditional cigarette sized PVs and innovative feed systems we are out of luck. And now with all the games the FDA are playing the future's not looking so bright anymore.

 

[Rosco]

That is precisely why I'm not going to just sit back and do nothing. I am getting PROactive versus REactive and try to do all I can before things get any worse. I don't feel that I am not alone in this thinking.

 

[Petrodus]

That is precisely why I'm not going to just sit back and do nothing. I am getting PROactive versus REactive and try to do all I can before things get any worse. I don't feel that I am not alone in this thinking.

The frustrations (and anger) many of us experience is tied directly with fighting a
Defensive war with the FDA, health organizations, and zealots that couldn't care less
about Truth, Health, or Science.

What the E-cigarette movement lacks is an "Aggressive Offense" with organized
offensive “leadership” with a plan. Not a “Re-actionary” team (we already have that).

An offense that is not “officially” associated with CASAA to protect their reputation…
(If you can read between the lines)

I will be discussing this subject at a local meeting in a few weeks.

 

[DC2]

The implications of this are really frightening. I really would hate to see the mom and pop small vendor system we currently have be replaced by only big box retailers.

I personally have always thought that was pretty much inevitable regardless.
Especially when it comes to selling the juices.

But I see it moreso as being a problem associated with the expense and hassle of complying with regulations.

And when I say regulations, I mean those that are absolutely guaranteed to come eventually.
It is only, and has always been, just a question of what form those regulations will take.

 

[mactrekr]

The implications of this are really frightening. I really would hate to see the mom and pop small vendor system we currently have be replaced by only big box retailers.

I'll bet you a nickle that if WalMart were selling e-cigs, their shipments would get through.

 

[mactrekr]

You know, a lot of folks are pointing fingers at Glaxo and the other "smoking cessation" product manufacturers, but frankly, I think it goes WAY beyond that. I think the real culprits are RJR Reynolds, US Tobacco, Philip Morris etc. Those fat cats are crapping their pants over the e-cig revolution, and they've got the money to buy Senators, Congressmen, and the FDA.

 

[DC2]

You know, a lot of folks are pointing fingers at Glaxo and the other "smoking cessation" product manufacturers

People are pointing fingers at Big Phama because all of the money trails lead right straight to them.

 

[Vocalek]

You know, a lot of folks are pointing fingers at Glaxo and the other "smoking cessation" product manufacturers, but frankly, I think it goes WAY beyond that. I think the real culprits are RJR Reynolds, US Tobacco, Philip Morris etc. Those fat cats are crapping their pants over the e-cig revolution, and they've got the money to buy Senators, Congressmen, and the FDA.

That would not be a very wise business move on their part. They need "modified risk" tobacco products that are acceptable to smokers as a substitute for tobacco cigarettes. If you ask me, they are sitting back, waiting for the FDA to finally say that e-cigarettes are tobacco products. At that point, they have the money to buy Ruyan (almost did, reportedly), JoyTech, and anybody else who makes e-cigarettes.

And as far as pointing fingers at Big Pharma, why else would the American Lung Association, American Cancer Society, American Heart Association, & Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids be sending lobbyists out to state and local legislatures, trying to get them to pass bans? They get huge donations from Big Pharma.

 

[kristin]

Yep, what DC2 and Elaine said. So far, no one associated with BT (Big Tobacco) has opposed e-cigarettes. Frankly, it's win-win for BT, because they are the ones who provide nicotine to e-cigs and BP and they could easily start selling e-cigarettes themselves.

Everyone coming out against e-cigarettes has had ties to BP (Big Pharmaceutical companies) including the lobbyists pressuring legislators. It's not just conjecture or finger pointing - just follow the money trail.

You know, a lot of folks are pointing fingers at Glaxo and the other "smoking cessation" product manufacturers, but frankly, I think it goes WAY beyond that. I think the real culprits are RJR Reynolds, US Tobacco, Philip Morris etc. Those fat cats are crapping their pants over the e-cig revolution, and they've got the money to buy Senators, Congressmen, and the FDA.