FDA Takes Enforcement Action on Electronic Smoking Products

[Caesarea]

I'm not sure what CaSH is up to. He knows what's about to happen as well as we do. The battery pack and PT would probably be legal if not sold with an atomizer. But he's designing his own atomizer as well. I wonder if you could sell the things with plain PG or VG and call it a novelty item? According to FDA, it's about the marketing of the devices and the nicotine. If they are marketed to be used w/o nicotine, as a novelty item, the FDA might not have any authority to regulate them. We'll have to wait and see. I hope he gets one over on 'em.

TT33

TT33

I'm interested to see where this goes...
Thanks, TT33.

 

[Venuvious]

The FDA needs to get back to monitoring the safety of FOODS and DRUGS. They currently have no jurisdiction over tobacco and they don't have the competence to monitor and police tobacco. They can't even do their job with the FOODS and PHARMACEUTICALS.

Well I think Tropical Bob had said it a while ago among others:
"It is a Battery operated device, that atomizes liquid nicotine into a vapor or mist, that is then injected or inhaled into the lungs, causing a biological change by delivering nicotine to the addicted person who craves it..."

Sounds like a medical device to me too when you put it in perspective, unfortunately.

 

[Figurehead]

Once again, & I hate mentioning it here on the board because we all know this place "has ears", but what if e-juice was simply sold as liquid potpori and labled "for simmer pot insence use only"? What we chose to do with it when we got it in our own homes would be up to us.

I mean, ferchrisakes.... I know bleach is supposed to be for cleaning, but if I use it to purposely ruin every pair of jeans I have, who can stop me? I buy insence sticks around the 4th of July to use a punks for lighting fireworks. Not their intended use, but once I buy them I can do whatever the hell I want to with them, right?

 

[Venuvious]

Once again, & I hate mentioning it here on the board because we all know this place "has ears", but what if e-juice was simply sold as liquid potpori and labled "for simmer pot insence use only"? What we chose to do with it when we got it in our own homes would be up to us.

I mean, ferchrisakes.... I know bleach is supposed to be for cleaning, but if I use it to purposely ruin every pair of jeans I have, who can stop me? I buy insence sticks around the 4th of July to use a punks for lighting fireworks. Not their intended use, but once I buy them I can do whatever the hell I want to with them, right?

Figurehead,
My thoughts exactly!
Which is why I am now:

A) Closing my Website after this weekend, getting rid of all stock at rediculious prices and selling off the name (Come see the Hits for yourself)

b) opening a new site shortly that does not mention e-cigs, parts, or accessories at all! Just HealthyFlavorings
All ingredients on this site, which is live but currently in testing phase, are ALL FDA approved ingredients or Flavorings! If you want to vape the stuff it is up to you! I am just selling FDA approved flavorings don't you know!

 

[SharonLM]

I know this is a stupid question, I'm new to all of this, so please bear with me. The healthy flavorings will have the nicotine in them right? I see where there are ingredients to make you own at different sites, and I just wonder if you can get liquid nicotine, etc.

Let's say I order the ingredients from you at your new site, will I also be able to order the nicotine to put into this new mixture?

I am so, so proud of myself, after 40 years of smoking and 2 packs a day, and trying patches, gum, lozenges, zyban, cantix, everything, I have finally for the first time not smoked now for almost 36 hours. I'm just sick that the FDA is doing this. There's got to be a way I can vape without the device, isn't there? Some way?

I've ordered lots of extra supplies but because I'm new I have no idea how long they will last. I now have (once the new orders come in), 14 atomizers, 10 batteries and 190 ml of liquid. Any one know how long these will last for me? Any guess?

 

[ccure]

I know this is a stupid question, I'm new to all of this, so please bear with me. The healthy flavorings will have the nicotine in them right? I see where there are ingredients to make you own at different sites, and I just wonder if you can get liquid nicotine, etc.

SharonML.

No, you can not buy just Nicotine easily. But some post here state that you can extract some sort of nicotine from the tobacco.

Regarding the supplies, I can not help you there, Sorry

 

[SharonLM]

SharonML.

No, you can not buy just Nicotine easily. But some post here state that you can extract some sort of nicotine from the tobacco.

Regarding the supplies, I can not help you there, Sorry

Then how are people making their own liquid if they have to get the ingredients and put them together? Wouldn't the nicotine be missing if you can't get it? I'm so confused, but staying at it and trying to learn.

Thanks for your patience in answering!!!

 

[Vicks Vap-oh-Yeah]

Then how are people making their own liquid if they have to get the ingredients and put them together? Wouldn't the nicotine be missing if you can't get it? I'm so confused, but staying at it and trying to learn.

Thanks for your patience in answering!!!

I, for one, plan on vaping without the nicotine....it's the habit I crave, not the nico.....

Pure righteous indignation and a careful weaning process should get me over the worst of the nico cravings hump - I'm tired of the unholy trio (Big Tobacco, Big Pharma, and Big Brother) trying to manipulate me into doing things their way, forced to use their products, and lining their pockets....

 

[SharonLM]

I, for one, plan on vaping without the nicotine....it's the habit I crave, not the nico.....

Pure righteous indignation and a careful weaning process should get me over the worst of the nico cravings hump - I'm tired of the unholy trio (Big Tobacco, Big Pharma, and Big Brother) trying to manipulate me into doing things their way, forced to use their products, and lining their pockets....

I've thought about that, vaping without the nicotine, especially after I've weaned myself off it. But you still have to find the accessories, ie. atomizers, batteries, etc. Where will we be able to do that? Any suggestions?

 

[Avid]

But some post here state that you can extract some sort of nicotine from the tobacco.

and IMO, therein lies the problem with banning e-cigs. Because as many of those posts also state, it is *very dangerous* to attempt to do so. But you just know that many people will try.

Just like during prohibition when stills went up in backyards and a lot of the alcohol produced was not fit for consumption and the stills themselves were dangerous, or people just used other toxic or illegal substances to fill the void...

Just like when women didn't have access to proper medical care to terminate a pregnancy and resorted to illegal methods which resulted in many deaths either during the 'procedure' or from the infection afterwards...

If the government/FDA/BT/whomever thinks that by banning e-cigs and nicquid all of us will just go back to smoking or use one of their "approved" and useless pharmaceuticals to quit smoking, I think they are in dire need of a history lesson.

The results of their decisions could (and likely will) be tragic.

 

[RacoonSpirit]

Avid - love that pic! To kewl!

 

[surbitonPete]

So if their concern is that the product is marketed as being 'safer' than cigarettes and it might encourage non-smokers......would they be happy if the e-cig was marketed as being just as dangerous as cigarettes??

 

[Vicks Vap-oh-Yeah]

I've thought about that, vaping without the nicotine, especially after I've weaned myself off it. But you still have to find the accessories, ie. atomizers, batteries, etc. Where will we be able to do that? Any suggestions?

Battery mods abound on this forum - the Screwdriver, the magnum, several juicebox mods and the Golden Goddess.....all these are obtainable and can be serviced instead of replaced each time they die.

Attys are a bit different - not a lot of mods out there, yet. IF the ban falls, I have a feeling the modders are going to start focusing on them.

If all else fails - there are devises out there that don't fall under the FDA's radar which could be simply modified to work with no nic smoke juice - the I-Inhale is one example, and there are others out there as well that vaporize herbal material for inhalation. Check this out:


Using Those "Other" Vaporizers

And, there are some of us who have simply stocked up on equipment....

 

[Skad]

I've thought about that, vaping without the nicotine, especially after I've weaned myself off it. But you still have to find the accessories, ie. atomizers, batteries, etc. Where will we be able to do that? Any suggestions?

Small orders from China will still flow through the borders. There's a chance you may lose one here or there, but small orders won't get inspected enough to be caught on a regular basis.

The sad part about this is that the only people the FDA are putting out of business here are American entrepreneurs who are just trying to earn a few bucks.

 

[OutWest]

and IMO, therein lies the problem with banning e-cigs. Because as many of those posts also state, it is *very dangerous* to attempt to do so. But you just know that many people will try.

Just like during prohibition when stills went up in backyards and a lot of the alcohol produced was not fit for consumption and the stills themselves were dangerous, or people just used other toxic or illegal substances to fill the void...

Just like when women didn't have access to proper medical care to terminate a pregnancy and resorted to illegal methods which resulted in many deaths either during the 'procedure' or from the infection afterwards...

If the government/FDA/BT/whomever thinks that by banning e-cigs and nicquid all of us will just go back to smoking or use one of their "approved" and useless pharmaceuticals to quit smoking, I think they are in dire need of a history lesson.

The results of their decisions could (and likely will) be tragic.

well said and agree completely. Some will try to make their own nicotine liquid, resulting in deaths, others will try to vape other dangerous stuff (like organic pesticide), some will go back to the cancer sticks (a tragedy in itself), and others will become criminals and smuggle in their ecig supplies.

Nothing good can come from a ban.

So if their concern is that the product is marketed as being 'safer' than cigarettes and it might encourage non-smokers......would they be happy if the e-cig was marketed as being just as dangerous as cigarettes??

Only if there was ground up tobacco in the eliquid and tobacco tax paid on the product. Then it would be outside of FDA control, at least until the Waxman bill passes.

 

[Amy]

Our concern is that this might introduce nonusers to nicotine use.

How could this be a reasonable concern with all of the non-users becoming introduced to nicotine use through cigarettes? 8-o

 

[NY JETS]

So if their concern is that the product is marketed as being 'safer' than cigarettes and it might encourage non-smokers......would they be happy if the e-cig was marketed as being just as dangerous as cigarettes??

Pete this has been my stance from day 1. When I have posed this thought I haven't got a lot of feedback though.

E-cigs should just be considered another form of smoking. Not a healthier or safer form, just a different one. Nobody say that its good or bad for you, just say what it is.

Almost every supplier Ive seen markets it as a safer way to smoke, even if they word it differently.

 

[OutWest]

How could this be a reasonable concern with all of the non-users becoming introduced to nicotine use through cigarettes? 8-o

good question. The only thing I can think of is that their theory is that because it's safer than cigarettes, people might try it that wouldnt take up smoking. And, of course at the same time they dont want people who smoke to try it because it might be more dangerous than cigarettes *rolls eyes*

 

[SharonLM]

I am so grateful for this forum and all who have experience sharing their knowledge.

I've quite a stash on hand and coming in the mail now. I'm not as freaked because I see there are other alternatives and I think with all I have on hand I've plenty of time to watch what comes forward. Whether it's new devices or final approval by the FDA, I should be OK.

But I still am so disappointed (once again...sigh) in our countries need to go BIG business and our countries need to control, while all the time saying they believe in the little guy and the little business.

 

[iam0z]

I have said it before and I'll say it again. It's all money based. From the tobacco farmer that looses revenues from loss of sales to Big tobacco that losses revenues from loss of sales to the Government who losses revenues from loss of taxes collected. The E-Cigarette threatens so many people on so many levels. Just like automobiles threatened folks who made buggies and and folks who sold horses. But the Car found away of surviving because it gave jobs to those who lost them. Now hear comes the E-Cigarette taking all these things from all these people in this country and not offering any replacements. Anyway, now they are gonna fix it where the Chinese get to "smoke" and live and here in the USA we get the same old choice........... smoke and die or quit. And if we choose smoke and die we get to pay incredibly high taxes to support the added burden to the Health Care and welfare systems.