Article: FDA to Ban Electronic Cigarettes

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smokingclam

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If it is not illegal to sell or possess bongs then why was Tommy Chong arrested and served time for selling or possessing them?
Actually I may be wrong on that. Seems there is no Federal law but State laws may vary. This is taken from Wikipedia.....

Bongs are often sold in head shops and on the Internet. In the United States, under the Federal Drug Paraphernalia Statute, which is part of the Controlled Substances Act, it is illegal to sell, transport through the mail, transport across state lines, import, or export drug paraphernalia. Nonetheless, the sale of bongs is tolerated as are other general purpose smoking tools, including rolling papers, crack pipes, etc. There is no Federal law regarding simple possession of drug paraphernalia, but this may be regulated by state law.[citation needed]
In countries where marijuana and hashish is illegal, some retailers specify that bongs are intended for use with tobacco in an attempt to circumvent laws against selling drug paraphernalia. While technically '....' does not mean a device used for smoking marijuana, drug-related connotations have been formed with the word itself. Due to these connotations, some head shops will not serve customers who use the word "....".[10]
 

OutWest

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If it is not illegal to sell or possess bongs then why was Tommy Chong arrested and served time for selling or possessing them?
What got him in trouble was shipping them across state lines. From my understanding, though, it was really a statement by the govt because of Chong being so high-profile. They shut down 55 companies in total, but nonetheless...

Actor Tommy Chong gets nine months for selling pot pipes

Tommy Chong released from prison | Cannabis Culture Magazine
 

fenez

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If they are considered legal there would be no problems, obviously they are on the fringe of legal which means no they are not legal, if using them or selling them or bringing them over state lines could cause one to go to jail then no they are definitely not 100% legal.
Total bs in my book The government spends money on all this selective enforcement and making it hard for people to do biz.
 

yvilla

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Drug paraphernalia is specifically defined under federal law, in Title 21 of the US Code, the same title that list and defines what are controlled substances:

TITLE 21 > CHAPTER 13 > SUBCHAPTER I > Part D > § 863

(d) “Drug paraphernalia” defined
The term “drug paraphernalia” means any equipment, product, or material of any kind which is primarily intended or designed for use in manufacturing, compounding, converting, concealing, producing, processing, preparing, injecting, ingesting, inhaling, or otherwise introducing into the human body a controlled substance, possession of which is unlawful under this subchapter. It includes items primarily intended or designed for use in ingesting, inhaling, or otherwise introducing marijuana,[1] ......., hashish, hashish oil, PCP, methamphetamine, or amphetamines into the human body, such as—
(1) metal, wooden, acrylic, glass, stone, plastic, or ceramic pipes with or without screens, permanent screens, hashish heads, or punctured metal bowls;
(2) water pipes;
(3) carburetion tubes and devices;
(4) smoking and carburetion masks;
(5) roach clips: meaning objects used to hold burning material, such as a marihuana cigarette, that has become too small or too short to be held in the hand;
(6) miniature spoons with level capacities of one-tenth cubic centimeter or less;
(7) chamber pipes;
(8) carburetor pipes;
(9) electric pipes;
(10) air-driven pipes;
(11) chillums;
(12) bongs;
(13) ice pipes or chillers;
(14) wired cigarette papers; or
(15) ....... freebase kits.

(e) Matters considered in determination of what constitutes drug paraphernalia
In determining whether an item constitutes drug paraphernalia, in addition to all other logically relevant factors, the following may be considered:
(1) instructions, oral or written, provided with the item concerning its use;
(2) descriptive materials accompanying the item which explain or depict its use;
(3) national and local advertising concerning its use;
(4) the manner in which the item is displayed for sale;
(5) whether the owner, or anyone in control of the item, is a legitimate supplier of like or related items to the community, such as a licensed distributor or dealer of tobacco products;
(6) direct or circumstantial evidence of the ratio of sales of the item(s) to the total sales of the business enterprise;
(7) the existence and scope of legitimate uses of the item in the community; and
(8) expert testimony concerning its use.

US CODE: Title 21,863. Drug paraphernalia

Each state has its own definition of "drug paraphernalia" for purposes of state penal codes, but I guarantee you they will all similarly hinge on the "primarily designed for" and "primarily intended for" use of any controlled substance, the possession of which is unlawful.

But as you can see, the most relevant part of the above to this discussion is the section e, listing the factors that help to determine whether an item is parahernalia, or not.

For those same sorts of factors are the ones that can be applied, for example, to a determination whether an ecig should be considered a "drug device" or not, but in the very different context of a non-controlled substance like nicotine, or even no nic liquid.
 
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Yup the states have a bunch of leeway in drug paraphernalia, as per the exemptions of this code:

(f) Exemptions
This section shall not apply to—
(1) any person authorized by local, State, or Federal law to manufacture, possess, or distribute such items; or
(2) any item that, in the normal lawful course of business, is imported, exported, transported, or sold through the mail or by any other means, and traditionally intended for use with tobacco products, including any pipe, paper, or accessory.​

Hence I can head about 10 minutes down the street and buy a .... right here in Ohio.

True in Ohio smoking Marijuana is a $125 fine. In some parts of the state, smoking a regular cigarette is $150 fine. :rolleyes:
 
Ok, back to the original topic. If the FDA's going to officially announce the ban tomorrow, I'd expect people to be receiving Cyber Letters today. That way they can say we've done x,y,and z at their press conference. Have any suppliers already gotten one?

Well here is the FDA's newsroom and I don't see anything on the schedule:

FDA Newsroom
 

Kendra

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If he transported across state lines than that would probably explain it. Think the law varies state to state. Here in Florida they are for sale in the local gas station. When I lived in NY I don't remember seeing them anywhere.
Maybe they had traces of drugs in them?

I have a question, too. When I lived in Boston, they had Exotic tobacco pipes for sale. Every .... or pipe at the head shops actually had this label on them. I haven't been in a head shop for years, though. Are these kinds of pipes still sold?

This makes no sense to me. I can buy a corncob pipe at walmart and smoke dope in it if I wanted to, or I can buy an expensive pipe from a tobacco shop and smoke illegal drugs out of it. How do they KNOW what I plan to do with it? Conversely, I can buy a .... and then smoke regular tobacco out of it if I wanted to.

I really don't understand how they can label one smoking device a "...." or marijuana pipe and another smoking device an acceptable pipe.
 

techtravis

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That's it. Looks like I'll be switching to nicotine nasal spray (WTF!)

Seriously,

They allow this crap through but want to ban our e-cigs?

FDA APPROVES NICOTINE NASAL SPRAY

looks like all we need is 6 weeks, and about 800 people for clinical tests.



and I love this.

Nicotrol NS patient advice including side effects
What side effects may occur?

Problems experienced by people using Nicotrol NS include nicotine withdrawal symptoms, common complaints of smokers, and local effects of the spray. Most people report some nasal irritation, which usually diminishes with continued use of the product. Other side effects are unpredictable. If any develop or change in intensity, inform your doctor as soon as possible. Only your doctor can determine if it is safe for you to continue taking Nicotrol NS.

  • More common side effects may include:
    Abdominal pain, acne, back pain, confusion, cough, dental problems, difficulty breathing, gas, gum problems, headache, itching, joint pain, menstrual pain or disorders, muscle aches, nasal irritation, nausea, palpitations, runny nose, sneezing, throat irritation, watering eyes

  • Rare side effects may include:
    Abnormal vision, allergy, amnesia, asthma, bronchitis, bruises, burning of the nose or eyes, change in sense of smell, ........, dry mouth, earache, eye irritation, facial flushing, hiccups, hoarseness, inability to comprehend words, increased sputum, migraine, nasal congestion, nasal ulcer or blister, nosebleeds, numbness, numbness of the nose or mouth, pain, rash, sinus irritation, sore throat, swelling due to fluid retention, taste alteration
 

menthollight

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I have a question, too. When I lived in Boston, they had Exotic tobacco pipes for sale. Every .... or pipe at the head shops actually had this label on them. I haven't been in a head shop for years, though. Are these kinds of pipes still sold?

Yes! A new "smoke shop" opened not too far from my home, and they said yes when I called to ask if they have "propylene glycol for humidors." I was expecting a pipe/cigar shop, but no, it's a head shop! Full of glass pipes and bongs, rolling papers, etc. They do have some conventional things like humidors and cigar cutters, and, unfortunately, their PG was a 50/50 premix, of no use to me.
 
That's it. Looks like I'll be switching to nicotine nasal spray (WTF!)

Seriously,

They allow this crap through but want to ban our e-cigs?

FDA APPROVES NICOTINE NASAL SPRAY

  • Rare side effects may include:
    Abnormal vision, allergy, amnesia, asthma, bronchitis, bruises, burning of the nose or eyes, change in sense of smell, ........, dry mouth, earache, eye irritation, facial flushing, hiccups, hoarseness, inability to comprehend words, increased sputum, migraine, nasal congestion, nasal ulcer or blister, nosebleeds, numbness, numbness of the nose or mouth, pain, rash, sinus irritation, sore throat, swelling due to fluid retention, taste alteration

This can get through because if the company has enough cash behind it they can get anything through. Pretty much if it doesn't instantly it's approved.
And you can see why the large companies would be against e-cigs. Look at the side effects of e-cigs vs the nasal spray. Which would you rather be using...
 
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Boom!

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Hello!
1st post here. I've been trying to do my research before buying my first e-cig and then all of this drama started I'm one of those newbies that isn't sure about this yet and doesn't want to spend a lot of money on something I may not stick with. It took some courage to finally order a starter kit. I was literally trying to order my starter kit when I saw the email a couple days ago about the FDA agenda planned for tomorrow and I probably wont get it if I order now and I'd be better off just waiting a couple more days to see how this plays out.


I also just called the local headshop here in Texas and asked if they carried any of these. They sell the NJoy for $99 and refill kits for $25. Kind of pricey...but at least I have an alternative to not have to worry about customs...

I really want to get started vaping and get off of the analogs but I guess I just sit and wait for now. Thanks FDA!

I can't help thinking about all of the other products like diet pills that all say they 'this product has not been approved by the FDA'. What a croc! This stinks of big business tobacco companies scared.

Anyway, great site, keep up the good fight. I'll just sit back and watch how this plays out tomorrow.
 

TropicalBob

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If a diet pill had amphetamine in it, you can bet the FDA would be all over it. That's a drug -- and it's a regulated substance. Our liquid contains what the FDA calls an addictive substance and a toxin. The FDA has required Big Pharma to conduct tests on their nicotine products that have not been done with e-liquid. That's the case against e-smoking. The message to sellers: Do the tests, prove your safety and efficacy. It's not out of character for this agency to challenge new drugs being imported. And the wild claims some makers made now haunt us all.

When you claim to be NRT, you better have tests to back it up. When you claim you are safer than tobacco cigarettes, where's the proof? The FDA is not interested in your stories or your common sense. It must rely on science, and even that sometimes fails to prevent dangerous drugs from being sold. But it is the best that regulatory agencies have to base sound decisions on. Hunches and hopes don't cut it!

As for side effects: Can you imagine what the list would look like for e-cigs? Have you read the Health section thoroughly? Like most, I dismiss the "side effects" that come with my medicine. If I worried about them, I'd never take anything .. and probably die prematurely when death was easy to avoid.
 

Webby

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This can get through because if the company has enough cash behind it they can get anything through. Pretty much if it doesn't instantly it's approved.
And you can see why the large companies would be against e-cigs. Look at the side effects of e-cigs vs the nasal spray. Which would you rather be using...

I'm afraid we've attracted too much press to get in under the radar now with cash and a slick business plan. SE has poked the bear (good or bad) and this thing will play out under public scrutiny - however it turns out.
 
As for side effects: Can you imagine what the list would look like for e-cigs? Have you read the Health section thoroughly? Like most, I dismiss the "side effects" that come with my medicine. If I worried about them, I'd never take anything .. and probably die prematurely when death was easy to avoid.

I remember the side effects of Chantix when I was taking it. Lucky for me and my family that I didn't own a gun back then. I most likely wouldn't be typing this now.
But even a trip to the Chantix site now has no mention of suicidal thoughts that it can cause. Yet it seems to be the most discussed reason that people have for getting off the drug.
Not to say that Chantix is bad, but people will have different reactions to it, the same as people have bad reactions to PG.
 

seminolewind

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The same thing happened to my friends, using Chantix and getting really depressed, and headaches all the time. And there was more than one. The 5 who tried it are all smoking again
Lucky people can go cold turkey without PV. But I feel lucky too in quitting with my alternative to smoking , which is my PV's
 
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