FDA to propose rule on ecigarettes Monday 4-28-2014

[patkin]

From TVECA .com


"Proposed FDA ecig regulations

The TVECA has had informal discussions with the FDA today, 4/18/2014, and we all decided that in the best interest of the regulatory process as well as the industry and the public, not to post the document on Tuesday."

Very confusing. Though I've seen the graphic of the "countdown" here, I still haven't found it on the site. Perhaps this is why? And I'm even confused as to why this is in the New Members Forum and not in the Legislative or Media sections. I would love to see some input over there where veterans who have been involved/following legislation for years might see it and respond. I trust and value their input. I'm also waiting to see if CASAA says anything about this.

 

[Slots]

My protanks and vamo is not a tobacco product; fasttech doesn't sell tobacco products, they sell consumer electronics.

Sorry .. Ca is classifying ALL tank, mods, atomizers, anything to do with e-cigs, etc etc as DRUG PARAPHERNALIA, and writing laws to make them illegal to buy sell use, own etc. The way it is written, leaves you with nothing to use.

 

[picowatt]

Thanks for that important quote.

The intent of that would have been to prevent the tobacco companies from using flavors as a way to ensnare the public towards smoking.
Now, the tricky part is: that does not apply to vaping for the same reason that it does not apply to pastry.

I think the significant part here may be the concept of availability. The "Act" intends to prevent youth or young adults from being enticed into beginning smoking. The ban on flavored cigarette products is for this reason. At the retail level such as the local grocery store or 7-11, the youth or young adult would be able to purchase a composite disposable product that is an e-cigarette and that is assembled and effectively functions as an analog cigarette without need to assemble or add to the device to make it function etc..
What many on this forum use are components that are assembled into custom vaporization devices but do not contain as a function of manufacture any nicotine. The separate component - e-liquid must be added to make the device function as an e-cigarette. Therefore, without regulation on batteries, tanks, wicks, etc... , as a part of the intent of the "Act", the separate mechanical components do not constitute an e-cigarette. Flavored e-liquid alone does not constitute an e-cigarette. Since you can not flavor the mechanical components for sale as an of the shelf item that is analogous to a ready to use e-cigarette, and since sale to youth and young adults is not feasible as a composite product the components should be exempt.

 

[Sirius]

See here guys, these progressives are trying to take us out big time. grrrrr
I wouldn't have expected anything less from them or the NYT for this report.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/15/h...ing-youth-congressional-report-says.html?_r=0

 

[Sirius]

Sorry .. Ca is classifying ALL tank, mods, atomizers, anything to do with e-cigs, etc etc as DRUG PARAPHERNALIA, and writing laws to make them illegal to buy sell use, own etc. The way it is written, leaves you with nothing to use.

OMG for realz? Well hell lets legalize the damn (other stuff) and make it harder on the vapers. WTH?

 

[Slots]

Since you can not flavor the mechanical components for sale as an of the shelf item that is analogous to a ready to use e-cigarette, and since sale to youth and young adults is not feasible as a composite product the components should be exempt.

Like I said above "DRUG PARAPHERNALIA"
Since the California (and other) kids have learned to liquefy their dope, and are using the e-cigs equipment to "smoke" it, they are creating laws to stop it.

 

[Sirius]

I think the significant part here may be the concept of availability. The "Act" intends to prevent youth or young adults from being enticed into beginning smoking. The ban on flavored cigarette products is for this reason. At the retail level such as the local grocery store or 7-11, the youth or young adult would be able to purchase a composite disposable product that is an e-cigarette and that is assembled and effectively functions as an analog cigarette without need to assemble or add to the device to make it function etc..
What many on this forum use are components that are assembled into custom vaporization devices but do not contain as a function of manufacture any nicotine. The separate component - e-liquid must be added to make the device function as an e-cigarette. Therefore, without regulation on batteries, tanks, wicks, etc... , as a part of the intent of the "Act", the separate mechanical components do not constitute an e-cigarette. Flavored e-liquid alone does not constitute an e-cigarette. Since you can not flavor the mechanical components for sale as an of the shelf item that is analogous to a ready to use e-cigarette, and since sale to youth and young adults is not feasible as a composite product the components should be exempt.

Picowatt -- That is exactly my thoughts as well. Nicely written btw.

 

[Sirius]

Like I said above "DRUG PARAPHERNALIA"
Since the California (and other) kids have learned to liquefy their dope, and are using the e-cigs equipment to "smoke" it, they are creating laws to stop it.

That's really retarted regulation intent right there Slots. See, superficial legislation harms society not helps it. So if they do this then we have to suffer the consequences of their, (dopeheads) actions. Really I will never understand the Progressives line of thinking. uugh

 

[picowatt]

Like I said above "DRUG PARAPHERNALIA"
Since the California (and other) kids have learned to liquefy their dope, and are using the e-cigs equipment to "smoke" it, they are creating laws to stop it.

Yes, I understand. I can't speak to the use of illegal drugs. I'm sure one could find all sorts of devices to get illegal drugs into the body. However, I don't agree with the law and believe a blanket ban or summary judgment of the devices is beyond the scope of state legislative responsibility. Example, if you can use a food processor to mix illegal drug bases or components then should a state legislature have the constitutional right to create a statute to ban all sales because a minority have found an illicit use? No!

 

[pamdis]

From TVECA .com


"Proposed FDA eCig regulations

The TVECA has had informal discussions with the FDA today, 4/18/2014, and we all decided that in the best interest of the regulatory process as well as the industry and the public, not to post the document on Tuesday."

Very confusing. Though I've seen the graphic of the "countdown" here, I still haven't found it on the site. Perhaps this is why? And I'm even confused as to why this is in the New Members Forum and not in the Legislative or Media sections. I would love to see some input over there where veterans who have been involved/following legislation for years might see it and respond. I trust and value their input. I'm also waiting to see if CASAA says anything about this.

I posted it in the sticky thread in the Legislation News forum this morning, but it has not generated any attention. I have just posted your update.

BTW - the message in red on their site is where the odometer was, so it appears that odometer has been replaced with message.

 

[Sirius]

Yes, I understand. I can't speak to the use of illegal drugs. I'm sure one could find all sorts of devices to get illegal drugs into the body. However, I don't agree with the law and believe a blanket ban or summary judgment of the devices is beyond the scope of state legislative responsibility. Example, if you can use a food processor to mix illegal drug bases or components then should a state legislature have the constitutional right to create a statute to ban all sales because a minority have found an illicit use? No!

Well I wouldn't mind if they added: Any device considered drug paraphernalia is against [law wth ever] if found along with illegal substances. That would make way to much sense though.

 

[picowatt]

Well I wouldn't mind if they added: Any device considered drug paraphernalia is against [law wth ever] if found along with illegal substances. That would make way to much sense though.

Right - since when do lawmakers do things that make sense. They generally pander to a specific constituent base .

 

[stevegmu]

Oh, no! Another meaningless deadline... I thought the end of the vaping world was last July or October or December or January...

Of course e-juice is a tobacco product. The nicotine is produced by extracting it from tobacco...

 

[patkin]

I posted it in the sticky thread in the Legislation News forum this morning, but it has not generated any attention. I have just posted your update.

BTW - the message in red on their site is where the odometer was, so it appears that odometer has been replaced with message.

I can't find it and I've been watching like a hawk. I'll go try again but maybe it hasn't generated interest because something has gone wrong in the stickies. Will come back.

Edit: the usual typos... plus found it! I think it hasn't because so many don't go back to read a sticky they've read already... probably don't realize the thread is ongoing no matter how long its been there. Anyway, thanks for keeping the info updated.

 

[picowatt]

This all really gets under my skin. So, effectively the FDA and various state legislatures are basically saying to the vaping community -
"Please go back to the Deadly cigarettes you use to smoke so we can regain lost revenue in state and federal coffers. We hope you don't die too soon from some terrible disease because we won't get enough replacement revenue and our friends, the Big Pharma Super Pacs won't make enough money on your diseased body if you pass to quickly and will have to reduce their political contributions due to lost revenue."

 

[Reg User]

"... What we will end up with is: A label so large in order to list every minutiae of ingredients, that it will require a bottle size so big ..."
Naah... Just attach the bottle to a hanger card with all the fine print on the back.

"I wonder if nicotine can be synthesized in a lab. Then it wouldn't be from tobacco anymore and wouldn't apply."
Or perhaps the major e-juice producers could get together and request that a nicotine producer extract a batch of Nic from eggplant.
It would be more expensive, but maybe cheeper than the taxes on tobacco-product-nic. (Tomacco anyone?)

"NO!!! NO NO , NO! I DON'T WANT TO BE FORCED TO GO BACK TO SMOKING! ..."
I'd like to see our lobbists take out full page ads in the papers of state capitals where these bills are pending.
Saying "This Bill Will Kill People" cus it tells people who are trying escape,
that the only place they can get their nicotine fix is from killer tobacco.
And "Vapor is the Anti-Tobacco" NOT a "tobacco product".

Who are our lobbyists?
TVECA? "Tobacco Vapor..."? E-Gads!! Who made them our interface to the media?
CASAA would be a better choice.

Regulation can be turned into lemonade. Just not gov-mint regulation.
Many industrys have sucess with self-regulation.
The major players form a "Industry Association" which sets a bunch of guidelines that make sence, protect the customers, and forment Trust.
Then the responsible folks in the industry mend their ways, submit to the association, and get to put the "Approved by..." logo in their ads.
Oft times gov wonks relax and let them govern themselves.
(The association i'm famillier with is the Comics Code Authority, which after 50 years is fading away, cus it's no longer needed.)

"If burnt sugar can be a carcinogen, is there any possibility ..."
Yeah, remember the time you ate the warning label off the cotten candy at the carnival...

"Collectively if we all just stopped using nicotine in any form...
...Would just not using nicotine for a month be enough?"
Obviously you've never tried quiting.

"I foresee the same labs extracting nicotine from other Solanaceae..."
Eggplant has the most Nicotine, after tobacco.
"...labeling it,(extracted from plant products)"
Tobacco is a plant, so be more spicific.

"Now i have a good excuse for a garden this year."
Eggplants, and lots of em.
I've read it takes 20 eggplant to equal 1 cig.

 

[stan77]

we have to keep fighting this

 

[patkin]

Hey vaperature, I'm not completely positive what you mean. The term "tobacco product" means any product made or derived from tobacco that is intended for human consumption, including any component, part, or accessory of a tobacco product. Being as all the components of an electronic cigarette needs it's combined constituents to make up the technology, the liquid is useless without the battery and vice a versa. Does that answer your question?

Really. So pipe smokers have not been able to buy pipes other than in-State and in-person? Yeh, right.

 

[p.opus]

I vape zero-nic juice, where does that put me?

 

[Steelgirl]

I've been thinking long and hard about getting into dyi-ing. Maybe this weekend I should just bite the bullet and order my supplies, flavors, nic, and so forth. Maybe order some more cartos while I'm at it. I'm still relatively new to vaping, only 8 mo almost. I'm not ready to or willing to give up the good life vaping has provided to me.