FDA FDA's leaked guidance for PMTAs confirm deeming reg would ban >99.9% of nicotine vapor products

[VNeil]

Well, how are all those stoned people get to Vegas otherwise?

Seriously, CA desperately needs public transportation, but that's a different conversation altogether.

If CA needs transportation money it should be raised from all the taxpayers, not selected marginalized groups. Applies equally for all taxation.

If the smokers and vapers pay for the trains then I trust all the cars will allow smoking and vaping?

 

[Katya]

If CA needs transportation money it should be raised from all the taxpayer, not selected marginalized groups. Applies equally for all taxation.

If the smokers and vapers pay for the trains then I trust all the cars will allow smoking and vaping?

Smokers and vapers are going to pay for Medi-Cal, not the train. Just for the record.

Brown Vetoes Medi-Cal Bills, Citing Expected $1.1B Budget Deficit - California Healthline

 

[Alexander Mundy]

For artificial nicotine, or even natural nicotine derived from some plant other than tobacco (I've seen some talk about a shrub native to Australia that's also very high in nicotine), I think the FDA would simply squash it as a "controlled substance." Exactly like... you know, that "other stuff," which has never been found truly hazardous by any legitimate study -- doesn't matter to the FDA! They gotta get their busybody paws into EVERYTHING! Overreach is their MANDATE!

Andria

Agree. The only reason they can't do that with Nicotine from tobacco is the tobacco regulations and the lawsuit they lost. Kurt and several other chemist's here have mentioned that artificial nic is different handed and will not grab the receptors in the brain like the nic we partake, besides being Uber expensive. The Australian plant is a close kin to American tobacco so it might go either as tobacco or drug depending on how they wanted it to.

 

[Traver]

Welcome back Traver. Seems like a couple of Lifetimes ago when we were talking about CE2's. LOL.

Your questions are Hard to Answer. Because about All we have to go on is Old Drafts and a Single New Draft FDA Document.

But here is my Opinion.

Only liquids with nicotine? Yes and No with a chance of Maybe. Pure PG, Pure VG and Flavorings are not going to be Regulated any more then as they are Today. If you combine them All Together and Market/Advertise them as an "e-Liquid", then Yes, I think they will. If you mix them Together and don't Market/Advertise them as an "e-Liquid" or to be consumed, then No, I don't think they will. But this is where the Maybe could be applied.

Would it apply to artificial nicotine? No. If Nicotine is Not Derived from Tobacco Plants than I do Not Believe that the FDA has the Authority to Regulate Artificial Nicotine for Recreational Use.

Devices that vaporize nicotine? If the Device is Marketed/Advertise as such, or have previously been Marketed/Advertised to, or is Sold with a Product that contains Nicotine derived from Tobacco Plants, then Yes, I believe it will fall under FDA Authority.

Devices that vaporize any liquid? Any Liquid, Maybe? A Lot depends on how it is Marketed/Advertised. And this is going to be an Area where I think you are going to see Legal Challenges.

Like I said, this is All just an Opinion. And I'm sure there will be Some who Agree or Disagree with Some or All of This.

I have read some of the document in the link that Kent posted. I'll try to finish tonight.

I agree with you that all this is mostly speculation. However I like many others on this forum I fear the worst. Thanks for your answer.

I don't remember the cost of artificial nicotine but i do believe it will be a viable alternative for many vendors. If the the other option is spending 20 or million or more to comply with FDA regulations.

 

[zoiDman]

I have read some of the document in the link that Kent posted. I'll try to finish toniht.

I agree with you that all this is mostly speculation. However I like many others on this forum I fear the worst. Thanks for your answer.

I don't remember the cost of artificial nicotine but i do believe it will be a viable alternative for many vendors. If the the other option is spending 20 or million or more to comply with FDA regulations.

I think Everyone should be concerned right Now.

I also think that having a Liter or 2 of PG Based 100mg/ml Nicotine Base (broken down into Smaller Glass Bottles) in one's Freezer would be a Very Wise Idea.

I don't care if someone doesn't do DIY today. Having a Liter's worth of 100mg/ml Nicotine Base is a Good Insurance Policy for the Future.

 

[Katya]

Having a Liter's worth of 100mg/ml Nicotine Base is a Good Insurance Policy for the Future.

I only have 500 ml of 50 mg/ml because I'm a cockeyed optimist and I still believe that the OMB will reject the stupid deeming regulations as too restrictive. So sue me.

 

[DC2]

I believe any nicotine from a source other than tobacco would be quickly declared a controlled substance.
It would no longer be protected as a "tobacco product" under the FSPTCA.

But this is just my opinion.
One of many.

 

[Traver]

Agree. The only reason they can't do that with Nicotine from tobacco is the tobacco regulations and the lawsuit they lost. Kurt and several other chemist's here have mentioned that artificial nic is different handed and will not grab the receptors in the brain like the nic we partake, besides being Uber expensive. The Australian plant is a close kin to American tobacco so it might go either as tobacco or drug depending on how they wanted it to.

Does it have any hit? i'm only interested in the hit.

 

[wiredlove]

I think Everyone should be concerned right Now.

I also think that having a Liter or 2 of PG Based 100mg/ml Nicotine Base (broken down into Smaller Glass Bottles) in one's Freezer would be a Very Wise Idea.

I don't care if someone doesn't do DIY today. Having a Liter's worth of 100mg/ml Nicotine Base is a Good Insurance Policy for the Future.

I broke mine down into smaller (250ml) glass containers, put nitrogen in to drive out the air, and wrapped the lids with silicone tape.

 

[AndriaD]

Agree. The only reason they can't do that with Nicotine from tobacco is the tobacco regulations and the lawsuit they lost. Kurt and several other chemist's here have mentioned that artificial nic is different handed and will not grab the receptors in the brain like the nic we partake, besides being Uber expensive. The Australian plant is a close kin to American tobacco so it might go either as tobacco or drug depending on how they wanted it to.

Love your avatar. Is that Bill the Cat? BILL THE CAT FOR PRESIDENT!!!

Not sure the artificial stuff is that expensive anymore; Smokey Joe posted something about that recently, and apparently it can be synthesized now for something like a "reasonable" cost. But it wouldn't surprise me at all if the artificial doesn't work as well as the natural; that's often the case with many chemicals, and I think it's a moot point anyway, because of how the FDA generally operates -- as if they think we need their PERMISSION to partake of any given substance or plant!

Andria

 

[AndriaD]

I only have 500 ml of 50 mg/ml because I'm a cockeyed optimist and I still believe that the OMB will reject the stupid deeming regulations as too restrictive. So sue me.

That's what I'm hoping, but I dunno if I'd go so far as to say I believe that will happen. They're all so corrupt, I can't *believe* anything good about any of them. Including, but not limited to, their intelligence.

Andria

 

[oplholik]

I don't know what to think anymore, what the FDA doesn't do to us, the individual states will. Either way, I feel we are screwed. I have my nic stashed away, and plenty of mods, and parts,but that doesn't help others coming in. I just hope for the best for all of us.

 

[sofarsogood]

Duncan Hunter for governor!

Too late, sorry, I already nominated him for president.

 

[Katya]

Too late, sorry, I already nominated him for president.

No problem! I'll vote for him!

 

[AndriaD]

No problem! I'll vote for him!

is Duncan his first name, or last? I figure "Duncan" is great either way, I married one, but just checking.

Andria

 

[Katya]

is Duncan his first name, or last? I figure "Duncan" is great either way, I married one, but just checking.

Andria

First name. Duncan Hunter. Great name, BTW.

And he's cute.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Taxation without representation is for dolts. Leave's ya chump change in your pocket. G'luck all.

 

[Kent C]

@KateNocera: And here is Duncan Hunter just getting a little nicotine fix in between interviews pic.twitter.com/LO2kt8B46o”

That's 'inside' of the Congressional Rotunda too!!

 

[Katya]

Nautilus? And he really needs a box mod. Or a beauty ring.

 

[zoiDman]

I saw this in Another Thread...

Don’t stifle vaping

Or maybe it was This One?