Feeling like ive stopped...but not stopped?

[Vapoor eyes er]

I thought that I was stuck to smoking until it probably killed me to be honest......ive got 2 kids, 2 and 4 years old........and although we talked about stopping, we never did.

I too had tried every smoking cessation prog available except the pills and was just waiting for the bad news from my Dr.- had given up.

Does anyone in a similar situation not think ...........why is vaping not MORE popular?

Because lots of $$ involved- taxes from tobacco, Pharma drugs for those poor souls dying from lung cancer/ suffering from tobacco related illnesses, lots of Fat Cat execs running "non profit" anti smoking orgs- no smokers= no business for them which means they'd have to go out into the real world, get a job and show real results.

What im trying to say is...this is THE best way to stop smoking im sure...but does anyone else feel abit guilty that they are still "smoking"? Im not really sure ive actually stopped!?

First and foremost just be focused on staying away from tobacco and know that you're moving forward in a positive way. My GP (highly regarded within the Med. Community) believes the dangers of nicotine are far overstated because of it's association with smoking= he's a realist. As for nicotine it stimulates new blood vessel growth BUT can also hamper blood flow= 2 bladed sword.
I quit vaping Nicotine last Sept but still occasionally vape zero nic on weekends, at social gatherings and in stressful situations. Easily no problem to go a week or two and for me it's now either an occasional treat or a release when in stressful (good AND bad stress) situations.
Give it time and know that one day you'll be walking your daughter down the aisle and paying for the Wedding

 

[matty007]

I too had tried evry smoking cessation prog available except the pills and was just waiting for the bad news from my Dr.- had given up.

Because lots of $$ involved- taxes from tobacco, Pharma drugs for those poor souls dying form lung cancer, lots of Fat Cat execs running "non profit" anti smoking orgs- no smokers= no business for them which means they'd have to go out into the real world, get a job and show real results.

First and foremost just be focused on staying away from tobacco and know that you're moving forward in a positive way. My GP (highly regarded within the Med. Community) believes the dangers of nicotine are far overstated because of it's association with smoking= he's a realist. As for nicotine it stimulates new blood vessel growth BUT can also hamper blood flow= 2 bladed sword.
I quit vaping Nicotine last Sept but still occasionally vape zero nic on weekends, at social gatherings and in stressful situations. Easily no problem to go a week or two and for me it's now either an occasional treat or a release when in stressful (good AND bad stress) situations.
Give it time and know that one day you'll be walking your daughter down the aisle and paying for the Wedding

Nail and head come to mind.

Great post.

 

[AegisPrime]

The UK government has actually made very little noise about where we should and shouldn't vape - in fact, it's perfectly legal to vape on buses and the London Underground (staff however, aren't permitted) - private businesses are free to make their own rulings about e-cigarettes on their property at this time and most haven't made a decision - you might get told by a staff member that you're not allowed to vape somewhere, but more often than not that's based on the appearance of smoking rather than any specific rules.

Re: the taxes - that's going to be a difficult one since that 5% tax rate is specifically for NRTs and other medications regulated by the MHRA (it applies to some other product categories too I believe) - once in place, raising the tax would require re-classifying e-cigarettes as something other than NRT - and if people have been quitting smoking by switching to vaping, I'm not sure the government could make it stick.

Really, I don't think they've thought it through at all - I think they're looking at the success rates of current NRT products (5%?) and assuming that e-cigs will amount to only a tiny percentage of nicotine users in the UK - I'm looking forward to the UK government losing their shirt on tobacco tax revenue there personally

Oh, as an aside - assuming that e-cigs do eventually get classed as NRT, that's going to impact on the potential government imposed vaping bans - after all, why promote something as an aid to quitting smoking and then restrict people only to using it where others are permitted to smoke?

 

[matty007]

I went in a bar with my Father the other day and started vaping. Only to be told that you can't use E-Cig's on the premises. Surely that's a lot of the reason they have become much more popular. What is the point in using a device that only emits water vapour if you can't use it anywhere anyway. So I had to go outside like I used to have to when I smoked, in the cold and rain. Although I'm using a harmless device.

The problem is people are against anything that remotely resembles smoking. I've had people complain when I've stood next to them vaping, and some have coughed like I'm puffing smoke their way!!. Yet it's OK for them to drive their big 4X4's down the road and pollute people's lungs with carbon monoxide. Yet somehow my water vapour is harmful

Propaganda and ignorance at it's finest.

 

[AegisPrime]

I went in a bar with my Father the other day and started vaping. Only to be told that you can't use E-Cig's on the premises. Surely that's a lot of the reason they have become much more popular.

Well that's down to the owners of the bar, and to be honest, I'm fine with that - they should be able to make their own policy about vaping based on what they feel is best for their business.

And since it's their policy (not the government's) they can change it if they choose to - if you'd like to vape there then print off a bunch of material from the CASAA website and have a meeting with the manager to explain vaping to him/her - the public are largely ignorant about these products at the moment which is an opportunity for us to educate them if we so choose.

 

[matty007]

The UK government has actually made very little noise about where we should and shouldn't vape - in fact, it's perfectly legal to vape on buses and the London Underground (staff however, aren't permitted) - private businesses are free to make their own rulings about e-cigarettes on their property at this time and most haven't made a decision - you might get told by a staff member that you're not allowed to vape somewhere, but more often than not that's based on the appearance of smoking rather than any specific rules.

Re: the taxes - that's going to be a difficult one since that 5% tax rate is specifically for NRTs and other medications regulated by the MHRA (it applies to some other product categories too I believe) - once in place, raising the tax would require re-classifying e-cigarettes as something other than NRT - and if people have been quitting smoking by switching to vaping, I'm not sure the government could make it stick.

Really, I don't think they've thought it through at all - I think they're looking at the success rates of current NRT products (5%?) and assuming that e-cigs will amount to only a tiny percentage of nicotine users in the UK - I'm looking forward to the UK government losing their shirt on tobacco tax revenue there personally

Oh, as an aside - assuming that e-cigs do eventually get classed as NRT, that's going to impact on the potential government imposed vaping bans - after all, why promote something as an aid to quitting smoking and then restrict people only to using it where others are permitted to smoke?

The Government isn't really the problem, well they are but. The problem is actually the EU. If they decide to ban E-Cig's then we are stuffed.

I've seen other people get stopped from vaping in various places, or frowned upon. That's the problem, people are uninformed and see it as smoking. People actually laugh when I tell them they're harmless.

I got scrutinized as a smoker and I sometimes, although admittedly much less often as a vaper too.

Shall we put a ban on high emittance vehicles and see how happy people are then, in fact any vehicle. My Grandfather worked in a Morgue and did Autopy's. He said you could often not see any difference between an non smokers lungs who had lived in a big city and a smokers lungs. Don't see any frowning directed to people who drive do we.

The fact that I still get shunned for puffing water vapour is sickening.

 

[The Ministry]

As other's have said, you're not smoking you're vaping. It's in the name.

If a Doctor asked if I was a non smoker or a smoker I'd say a non smoker. I am simply inhaling water vapour and Nicotine, not smoke and 3999 other harmful chemicals.

I feel exactly the same way, how vaping isn't more popular and praised I will never know. These really are the holy grail of smoking cessation and will (if their adopted properly) save millions of lives. I like to think of myself and all of us here as beta testers. We are in the very early stages of using this product and I honestly believe eventually vaping will take over from smoking. Will be in a LONG time however. Simply because many people get a bad view of E-Cig's from the cheap otc ones that don't work and they don't take them seriously.

Call me silly but I also believe the Government doesn't wan't them to become popular, just think of the amount of tax money they'll be losing from tobacco sales. Money talks.

Same goes for the tobacco companies, they are most probably the ones endorsing these articles in newspapers that say that E-Cig's are MORE harmful than smoking. Surely anyone with any common sense would see that as complete rubbish. How can water vapour be more harmful than smoke and carcinogenic chemicals. That gives people a bad view on them also.

Truth be told, going by serious studies, E-Cig's are next to harmless. And I honestly think they're completely harmless. Nicotine isn't really a harmful chemical in small doses, it's in potatoes. I'd actually goes as far to say that vaping is less harmful than a cup of Coffee. Caffeine can have some very nasty side effects and can cause many conditions if used regularly. As far as I'm aware Nicotine doesn't really have any real side effects apart from maybe slightly elevated blood pressure and narrowing of nerve endings. Both of these are uncommon too.

I just go by how I feel since I've quit smoking. My breathing, smell and taste has severely improved. That tells me all I need to know. rest assured I'll never smoke a cigarette again, why would I when vaping is harmless, tastes so much better and is actually enjoyable. Smoking isn't enjoyable, it's a habit. Vaping is actually enjoyable to do and to many is a hobby.

I honestly believe we are witnessing the very beginnings of a new revolution. Where vaping will be adopted in place of smoking, resulting in millions of lives saved.

Once the ridiculous ignorant public perception towards them has subsided that is

awesome post. I salute you.

 

[matty007]

Well that's down to the owners of the bar, and to be honest, I'm fine with that - they should be able to make their own policy about vaping based on what they feel is best for their business.

And since it's their policy (not the government's) they can change it if they choose to - if you'd like to vape there then print off a bunch of material from the CASAA website and have a meeting with the manager to explain vaping to him/her - the public are largely ignorant about these products at the moment which is an opportunity for us to educate them if we so choose.

Fair enough, but the real question is, why should I have to?

The device is doing nobody any harm, and is water vapour. No different than a smoke machine in a nightclub.

Just find it a little ridiculous that they see nothing wrong with serving people alcohol, which a lot of people abuse, and is just as harmful as smoking but they object to steam being puffed in their premises. A little stupid wouldn't you say?

When I go in a bar or pub I usually have a coke or something, never been a drinker and never will be, yet I'm the one who has to stand outside because I'm blowing steam lol.

 

[matty007]

awesome post. I salute you.

Thanks

 

[AegisPrime]

The Government isn't really the problem, well they are but. The problem is actually the EU. If they decide to ban E-Cig's then we are stuffed.

The EU can't ban them, it couldn't even get them classified as medical devices, what they have done is propose some clumsy regulations based on the lobbying of BT/BP (particularly with regard to the toxicity of nicotine) and their own misinterpretation of the (unbiased) scientific studies put forward but Dr. Farsalinos and his peers.

The EU did one thing that was dumb (restricting max mg to 20)

one thing that was seemingly unenforceable (refillable devices/mechanisms/containers need to be 'leak-proof')

and one thing that was cowardly (leaving member states to deem e-cigs as tobacco/medicines as they see fit).

Other than that, the Tobacco Products Directive is largely just pointless blustering that'll be completely ignored by every member state.

 

[matty007]

The EU can't ban them, it couldn't even get them classified as medical devices, what they have done is propose some clumsy regulations based on the lobbying of BT/BP (particularly with regard to the toxicity of nicotine) and their own misinterpretation of the (unbiased) scientific studies put forward but Dr. Farsalinos and his peers.

The EU did one thing that was dumb (restricting max mg to 20)

one thing that was seemingly unenforceable (refillable devices/mechanisms/containers need to be 'leak-proof')

and one thing that was cowardly (leaving member states to deem e-cigs as tobacco/medicines as they see fit).

Other than that, the Tobacco Products Directive is largely just pointless blustering that'll be completely ignored by every member state.

Oh OK, I stand corrected.

 

[generic mutant]

...
Shall we put a ban on high emittance vehicles and see how happy people are then, in fact any vehicle. My Grandfather worked in a Morgue and did Autopy's. He said you could often not see any difference between an non smokers lungs who had lived in a big city and a smokers lungs. Don't see any frowning directed to people who drive do we.

The fact that I still get shunned for puffing water vapour is sickening.

Some say 20 minutes on the tube is the equivalent of smoking a cigarette.

Pollution in the tube

 

[The Ministry]

I always wonder. If they restrict the sale of e-cigs, surely the same should be applied to cigarettes.

Ban e-cigs because "the are the unknown" argument versus the known facts about what cigarettes actually do to someone.

Surely they should be banning cigarettes and endorsing e-cigs....

It's too late to read legislation and EU Directives for me, (far too much grog) but I can't wrap my head around the need to mess with e-cigs when they save lives. Grrr

 

[DaveP]

Just a quick question to the gang who have stopped smoking.

I feel amazing that ive gone 12 days off the analogs and although the odd weird bit of not sleeping very well for the 1st few nights ive not missed the "analogs" at all.

Vaping to me has been unbelievable....I like smoking...thats why when ive tried to quit before ive failed.

I tried before with an e-lite and although it was handy once when I was ill....i never thought I could quit.

I thought that I was stuck to smoking until it probably killed me to be honest......ive got 2 kids, 2 and 4 years old........and although we talked about stopping, we never did.

We spend about £100 a month on cigs which is more than we can afford too.

Does anyone in a similar situation not think ...........why is vaping not MORE popular?

I suppose you need to want to stop...but its as good...probably better than smoking....cheaper by a mile..... why have I just found it!?

Why isnt this shouted from rooftops?

Im waffling now.....

What im trying to say is...this is THE best way to stop smoking im sure...but does anyone else feel abit guilty that they are still "smoking"? Im not really sure ive actually stopped!?

After comparing the pluses and minuses of vaping vs smoking, most of us here at ECF are convinced that we have found a way to emulate the habit without the dangers of tobacco smoke chemicals and carcinogens. Vaping is something that you can transition downward if you wish and eventually eliminate nicotine altogether. With cigarettes it was a downward trip from full flavor to lights to ultra lights and some found that they smoked twice as many at lower nicotine levels. It's not the nicotine that's bad, it's the carcinogen laced products of combustion in cigarettes that kills you.

Vaping has gotten a fairly clean bill of health in terms of known issues. So far, there's no clinically documented reason to quit. Yes, consuming nothing is better than consuming anything we don't need for life, but some of the little pleasures are better enjoyed when they don't have the condemnation of the medical community. It's not the doctors who are calling for ecig bans, it's the anti-smoking public. They don't like it because it resembles something they wanted to squash.

They do that while drinking their artificially sweetened beverages. If sugar is bad for them, why don't THEY quit?

 

[generic mutant]

Fair enough, but the real question is, why should I have to?

The device is doing nobody any harm, and is water vapour. No different than a smoke machine in a nightclub.

Just find it a little ridiculous that they see nothing wrong with serving people alcohol, which a lot of people abuse, and is just as harmful as smoking but they object to steam being puffed in their premises. A little stupid wouldn't you say?

When I go in a bar or pub I usually have a coke or something, never been a drinker and never will be, yet I'm the one who has to stand outside because I'm blowing steam lol.

It's a business decision - they think they'll have less customers if they allow vaping.

No doubt that's true for many places, it would depend on the customers.

As vaping becomes more mainstream, no doubt there will be many 'vape friendly' bars, and once non-vapers have figured out they can go to those without getting horrible deadly diseases things will calm down a little, I'd wager

 

[matty007]

Some say 20 minutes on the tube is the equivalent of smoking a cigarette.

Pollution in the tube

Precisely.

 

[AegisPrime]

Fair enough, but the real question is, why should I have to?

The device is doing nobody any harm, and is water vapour. No different than a smoke machine in a nightclub.

Just find it a little ridiculous that they see nothing wrong with serving people alcohol, which a lot of people abuse, and is just as harmful as smoking but they object to steam being puffed in their premises. A little stupid wouldn't you say?

When I go in a bar or pub I usually have a coke or something, never been a drinker and never will be, yet I'm the one who has to stand outside because I'm blowing steam lol.

Ok, firstly it isn't water vapour - it's mostly PG/VG mist, some water, some food flavourings and maybe small amounts of nicotine (plus whatever else you've got in your lungs that decides to hitch a ride )

Is it harmful? To you, unlikely (and much, much safer than smoking) - to bystanders, very unlikely. But all the same, it does carry (trace?) amounts of nicotine and those flavourings.

Funnily enough, the biggest health risk may be in the flavourings since nicotine in second-hand amounts is likely to have no effect whatsoever. The food-grade flavourings we're inhaling though have never been studied as safe for inhaling which is why more studies (like the current one Dr. Farsalinos is preparing) are necessary.

As a group, it's better for us to accept that this isn't just water vapour - there's already been plenty of (shoddy) press coverage demonizing vaping - if the FDA is saying e-cigs emit chemicals and you tell people it's just water, who do you think they're going to believe? If you tell people what the chemicals are, and why then at least they'll realise you know what you're talking about.

And yes, it's ridiculous - but it's also their right to make that choice - and I'd rather they choose to exclude vaping from their establishment (even if it's based on misconceptions) than have the government make that choice for them. Seriously - read up on the research, and if there's a local bar or pub you like that you'd like to vape in, go see the manager and educate them - whilst you still can, because at some point in the future their right to make their own decision may be taken away from them.

 

[matty007]

I always wonder. If they restrict the sale of e-cigs, surely the same should be applied to cigarettes.

Ban e-cigs because "the are the unknown" argument versus the known facts about what cigarettes actually do to someone.

Surely they should be banning cigarettes and endorsing e-cigs....

It's too late to read legislation and EU Directives for me, (far too much grog) but I can't wrap my head around the need to mess with e-cigs when they save lives. Grrr

You're telling me. It infuriates me. Since I started vaping 10 days ago I have not smoked a ... since, had no craving for one and in the meantime have converted 5 people. All of which are off analogs. That's potentially 5 lives saved. Apply that to people across the country and that is a a massive number of lives spared. Do it over the world and, well....

These things could potentially almost eliminate Lung Cancer, obviously some people get it even if they don't smoke but it's very rare in comparison to smokers. Yet a lot of people I try and convert simply shun them or don't even try them. If my Father who has smoked 40 cigs a day for 40 years can kick the analogs with vaping then surely anyone can.

Every time I look up smoking online all I see is ridiculous articles about E-Cig's and how they should be banned, you get some praising them but few in comparison. Yet cigarettes are just accepted.

Like you say nothing from the Government about banning cigarettes, just crap about E-Cig's. Why don't they just ban cigs and just put E-Cig's all over the market. Easy, too much money. That's what it all comes down to.

Ban fags and give people no choice to vape and they'd soon see how much better vaping is, and millions of lives would be saved. They won't do it though.

 

[DaveP]

This is a fairly long document, but if you scan through it and stop on the paragraphs of interest, you'll see that this medical school study of thousands of participants who vape provides an unbiased look at vaping from a physician's standpoint. They found nothing in the vapor that isn't already present in the air we breath daily, counting all the additions from industry. EPA standards were compared for toxicity.

http://publichealth.drexel.edu/~/media/files/publichealth/ms08.pdf

 

[generic mutant]

Estimates I've read are actually up to 66% water in vapour.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/general-e-smoking-discussion/505192-humectants-end-road.html

You're right, it isn't *entirely* water vapour / mist, but it isn't totally wrong either. I tend to tell people "It's mostly water, with a bit of propylene glycol, which has been used in theatre fog machines, asthma inhalers and to kill germs in air conditioning, plus the flavours and nicotine".