Flavoring question

[tazzmann]

I have been reading and re-reading some of these posts and stickies and I just don't get it. I have some Lorann's cheesecake flavoring that came in the mail. I don't use nic, so wanted to mix it with VG and distilled water. Now, how much of the flavoring am I supposed to use? I have used about a 1/4 bottle and still can't seem to taste it. Should it really take that much being that it is a concentrate? I a mixing in a 10ml bottle, btw.

Thanks!

Mike

 

[sanfordf]

Hi Tazz. I usually use about 1.5 - 2.5 mls of LorAnns per 10 ml bottle of juice and 5 mls of 50 mg/ml nic and 2.5 - 3.5 ml of VG. Some of the flavors are delicate or light. VG tends to reduce the strength of the flavor some (IMO). I haven't mixed with the cheesecake flavor yet so I couldn't give you my recipe breakdown for that flavor.

I use 510 atties (2.3 - 3.4 ohms) at 3.7v. Your results might vary.

WalMart carries some LorAnns for $0.50 - $1.00 for two 3.7 ml bottles. It's in the craft section of the store.

 

[DWTaylor]

The best break down on flavors to liquid is anywhere from 10 to 25% of the mix. It all depends on the flavor and the strength.
If ya like tons of flavor 15 to 25 is best.
If it its a weak flavor go 10 for a min flavor and shot for about 15%
So if ya like the flavor jumping in your mouth, and get the party started start at 10 for a strong flavor, 15 for a weak and add about 1 to 2 % till it gets to your liking.

 

[Switched]

... and unless you are allergic to PG, PG would be a better solution for 0 nic, as VG does a good job of diminishing flavour concentrations

 

[Kurt]

I use Lorann Cheesecake a lot. The flavor itself has ethanol in it. I mix it at 10% in my VG juices, and then add 15% distilled water. I get good cheesecake flavor, and love it with fruits. I find the ethanol in the flavor gives it a bit of a TH. 10% is fine for me, but everyone is different. If I went as high as 25%, I would not further thin the juice with water, as it will be plenty thin enough for me, and might not vape well.

 

[DWTaylor]

If ya look at the nice juice calc that scuba made. It starts out with your flavoring at 10%.
Most people like double flavor. Using that you have 20%. On a weak flavor ya wanting to use about 12 for a start. Double flavor would end up at 24. Having used this in my juices I have had no issues, and since I use double flavor on all my juices no one else has other then the HV users.
If ya using something other then Lorann's you don't need that 10% starter some only need 5 to 7%. Like PA flavorings.
Hope that helps.
DW

 

[tazzmann]

Yeah, the whole percent thing is what throws me. I prefer a little more scientific approach with ml breakdowns like sanfordf does. This puts it in a little better realm for me. 10% this and 15% that is all relative to the size of the bottle and I don't have any syringes or droppers that measure in percentages. Since I am mixing at 10ml (a known volume) then the ml per bottle answers are more understandable to me. Not that I am dissing anyone's answer, I just don't get the whole percentage thing. It seems to vague to me. If someone could explain it a little better to me, then maybe that would help. I am REALLY new to DIY.

Tazz

 

[Hoosier]

Yeah, the whole percent thing is what throws me. I prefer a little more scientific approach with ml breakdowns like sanfordf does. This puts it in a little better realm for me. 10% this and 15% that is all relative to the size of the bottle and I don't have any syringes or droppers that measure in percentages. Since I am mixing at 10ml (a known volume) then the ml per bottle answers are more understandable to me. Not that I am dissing anyone's answer, I just don't get the whole percentage thing. It seems to vague to me. If someone could explain it a little better to me, then maybe that would help. I am REALLY new to DIY.

Tazz

Given your avatar, I'd think this would be easy for you and since you are going 10ml each time it is even easier.

10ml=100%=1 finished product
5ml=50%=.5 of finished product
2.5ml=25%=.25 of finished product
1ml=10%=.1 of finished product

So all you have to do, for 10ml total, is divide the percentage by 10 and you have your ml.
So 15% flavor = 1.5ml.

A percentage is the same as a Power Factor with 2 added zeros. (I am assuming that you are familiar with AC electricity since you have the DC electrical math wheel as an avatar.)

 

[tazzmann]

Yeah, sorry, I look at electricity and chemicals differently. I think I am figuring it out. In this case it is 10ml, but my next shot is 3ml. Plus, I was always taught NEVER to use percentages when dealing with chemicals, but use specifics. It is just a matter of re-teaching my brain to use a different way of measuring. I know nothing is going to blow up or anything, it was just the way I was taught.

 

[Kurt]

Volume % is the scientific way of doing DIY. If you are using drops, each liquid will have its own viscosity and thus drop size. Far better to use syringes (faster, safer, and more accurate). Scuba's ejuice calculator allows you to enter %s of each component, volume of juice you want to make, mg level of unflavored nic, and then it will give you volumes of each liquid you are using in mL. It will give #drops too, but that assumes 1 mL = 20 drops, which is not always correct. Even water is 17.5 drops in a mL. % is not vague at all. Drops are very vague. I'm a chemist, and his calculator spreadsheet is the only way I do DIY.

The universal unit for flavors is volume %. Same for added water or PGA. That way it is independent of the actual amount of juice.

 

[tazzmann]

Well, like I said, I am NOT trying to dis anyone's answers and I am NOT a chemist. I was taught by my chemistry teacher (with a good demonstration why) not to use percentages, so that is the way I was taught. I just have to un-train myself on this way of thinking now it seems. I feel like I am being attacked because I wasn't taught the same way as everyone else. Sorry if I am taking it wrong, but that is the way it seems. I will try and get my head wrapped around it and won't post anymore until I understand it.

Thanks anyway,

tazz

P.S. Trying to use the spreadsheet causes errors when trying to select VG radio buttons and div/0 errors throughout the spreadsheet because I am not using any 0 nic juice. Just VG and flavoring. It also asks for amount of distilled water which I have no idea what that value should be.

 

[Hoosier]

You do have to have a non-zero value in water for the errors to go away. Try 0.01 and see if that fixes it.

Never meant for my response to come across as an attack, just an explaination.

 

[Switched]

E-Liquid Recipe Calculator

This calculator IMHO is the best there is out there. I have used Dan's spreadsheet and to me overly complicated for nothing. It is not something I would recommend for a newbie.

In your case you are playing with 0 nic, not a major problem. But there are folks out there that for some reason want to play with nic at 100mg, why is beyond me, and unless they have a complete understanding of what they are doing, and what the outcome should (roughly) be could cause themselves serious problems.

Everything I use for measuring equates to 22 drops/ml. At the top of the calc you enter "your" drops/ml. The remainder is all in %. Which will give you total amounts of ml and drops to use.

And in all honesty, DIY is not for everyone, and if this is too complicated then perhaps you should stick to store bought liquids. I sure wouldn't want someone to get hurt trying to save a buck.

 

[tazzmann]

Thanks switched. I don't think it is too complicated and since I am not using any nic-juice I think the worst that might happen is an upset stomach. I do see how everyone is measuring and I understand it fully, I was just taught not to measure that way. My teacher told me that just because a label says 1% by volume, doesn't mean it is necessarily true. It might actually be 1.124563% by volume. So mix in specifics (ml), but report in %. I know the percentage is "close enough" for our purposes, but it is a matter of re-training my thought process. I thought I was asking a fairly simple question and didn't mean to get it started into a large debate. Sorry everyone.

Hoosier, I understand. It's all good.

tazz

 

[Scubabatdan]

E-Liquid Recipe Calculator

This calculator IMHO is the best there is out there. I have used Dan's spreadsheet and to me overly complicated for nothing. It is not something I would recommend for a newbie.

In your case you are playing with 0 nic, not a major problem. But there are folks out there that for some reason want to play with nic at 100mg, why is beyond me, and unless they have a complete understanding of what they are doing, and what the outcome should (roughly) be could cause themselves serious problems.

Everything I use for measuring equates to 22 drops/ml. At the top of the calc you enter "your" drops/ml. The remainder is all in %. Which will give you total amounts of ml and drops to use.

And in all honesty, DIY is not for everyone, and if this is too complicated then perhaps you should stick to store bought liquids. I sure wouldn't want someone to get hurt trying to save a buck.

Unfortunantly any calculator out there is designed to determine the amount of nicotine used when making a recipe. None that I know of allow you to determine the total of a no-nic juice because the calculations are to simple, and the result in div errors or the total is not displayed. 90% PG + 10% flavoring, you do not really need a calculator for that. I am sorry that I over complicated my spreadsheet for nothing... Hmmmm seems it was all those people asking for additional features that must have overcomplicated it. I guess it is all a matter of opinion and point of view, if you don't use a feature then I guess it just muddies the water, but on the other hand if you use that feature daily then it makes perfect sense as to why it is there.

The OP is making no nic juice, so either they premix their base i.e.
80/20 PG/VG or
80/20 VG/Distilled water (20% water should be added to anhydrous glycerin)
Depending on the base they want to use and combine the premix and flavoring to equal the target amount to be made i.e. 30ml. Now depending on the amount to be made and what percentage of flavoring is used they simply multiply the percent of the target amount by the flavoring percent and then subtact that number from the target amount to find out the remaining premix that needs to be used.

i.e.

Target amount 30ml
Flavoring 15%

30 * 15% = 4.5
30 - 4.5 = 25.5

So the OP would use 25.5ml of their base mix and 4.5ml of flavoring.
I suppose I can add a sheet in for no-nic mixing in version 12, but then that might over complicate it for nothing.

Dan

 

[tazzmann]

You know what is really funny? My original question was "is 1/4 a bottle of Lorann's Cheesecake flavoring using too much"? (Paraphrased a bit, of course). Talking about over-complicated!

 

[Scubabatdan]

You know what is really funny? My original question was "is 1/4 a bottle of Lorann's Cheesecake flavoring using too much"? (Paraphrased a bit, of course). Talking about over-complicated!

LOL, it is a snowball that was rolled down a steep hil

And yes 25% is too much LOL

PM me an I can send you my tel # and we can chat offline.
Dan

 

[Switched]

Unfortunantly any calculator out there is designed to determine the amount of nicotine used when making a recipe. None that I know of allow you to determine the total of a no-nic juice because the calculations are to simple, and the result in div errors or the total is not displayed. 90% PG + 10% flavoring, you do not really need a calculator for that. I am sorry that I over complicated my spreadsheet for nothing... Hmmmm seems it was all those people asking for additional features that must have overcomplicated it. I guess it is all a matter of opinion and point of view, if you don't use a feature then I guess it just muddies the water, but on the other hand if you use that feature daily then it makes perfect sense as to why it is there.

SNIP*

Dan

Dan,

Please don't get me wrong. As the bolded text indicates it was developed by members. I read the entire thread. I had all versions for a while. It is not the type of calculator I would recommend to someone who is just starting out. The best feature of the calc is when mixing various nic concentrations, what will be the result.

All that being said, one should have a firm grasps on what the "possible" answer should be. e.g our PM wrt I made a booboo. Simple math gave me the answer originally, mind you not as precise as our long equations. We got into the long equations because it was a complex answer. The longer the equation, the more apt we will make a mistake along the lines. Working the equations although I could not place my finger on it, I knew the answers I was coming up with did not make sense. We worked it out, and as you know that was not an easy one to explain or figure out.

So IMHO Dan, the spreadsheet is something more apt to someone who has a few miles under their belts, then just starting out. What I don't like about the "simple calculator" is that you can only enter %. Although this is the mean way we do business, I can see times where adding ml or even drops could pay desirable.

 

[Switched]

LOL, it is a snowball that was rolled down a steep hil

And yes 25% is too much LOL

PM me an I can send you my tel # and we can chat offline.
Dan

Dan it the man. He will always respond to PMs, and has the patience of Jobe

 

[Kurt]

Well, like I said, I am NOT trying to dis anyone's answers and I am NOT a chemist. I was taught by my chemistry teacher (with a good demonstration why) not to use percentages, so that is the way I was taught. I just have to un-train myself on this way of thinking now it seems. I feel like I am being attacked because I wasn't taught the same way as everyone else. Sorry if I am taking it wrong, but that is the way it seems. I will try and get my head wrapped around it and won't post anymore until I understand it.

Thanks anyway,

tazz

P.S. Trying to use the spreadsheet causes errors when trying to select VG radio buttons and div/0 errors throughout the spreadsheet because I am not using any 0 nic juice. Just VG and flavoring. It also asks for amount of distilled water which I have no idea what that value should be.

Sorry if I came across as harsh...wasn't meant. I teach chemistry myself, and I bet I know which problems you ran into problems using %s!! In this situation, these are volume %, so there is no issues with densities or masses, its just relative amounts liquids in terms of volumes. Instead of 20%, we could say 0.2 of the total volume. The spreadsheet takes a little getting used to...it did for me too. But its worth the effort. As a chemist, trust me, it is the right way to do it, and once you learn it, it won't let you down. Hoosier is right, for the cell that has target nic %, put something really small, like 0.01. The Base nic can be whatever you want, like 36. I never saw those errors, as I have not made 0% nic juice as yet, so I learned something tonight too.