Flavouring 90-100% PG questions

[monikaedv]

Since it says everywhere that flavours are more upfront in PG than in VG, I wonder if it's wise to use less flavours in a 90-100% PG liquid than in say 50/50 or 70/30 PG/VG? And if so, how much compared to VG mixes?

I haven't really mixed anything myself yet, except for deluting premade e-liquids with 0 nic PG. This is to lower the nic, but mainly it's because it looks like I can't handle VG or at least it has to be very little in my liquids. I've diluted 70/30 PG/VG with 25% PG, which lowers the VG to 22.5 (?) + the nic is now 13.5 mg. The flavours are quite weak like this of course, but the phlegm buildup in my throat is not as severe as with 30% VG. Much to my surprise I don't think 13.5 mg nic is too low TH-wise, maybe because of more PG?

So I also wonder: Would 12 mg nic in 90-100% PG give the same throat hit as say 15 mg in 70/30 PG/VG?

OK, I have loads of questions, but I guess that's enough for now

 

[Hoosier]

Just because something has been repeated often doesn't make it true. I've never had to adjust flavoring levels for different PG VG mixes. (I have adjusted PG VG ratios to get a certain "feel")

Throat hit is mostly a result of nicotine level. I only find a very slight difference between 100% PG vs 100% VG. I encounter more differences with different kinds of Nic and flavorings. (sour flavors give me more TH feeling)
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[monikaedv]

Really? OK, I believe you, I'm just surprised! Or... I don't know... loads of people say they get no TH with 100% VG. I'm confused...
Then again loads of people say 100% PG liquids taste harsh, but the ones I've tried definitely did not.
Also it says almost everywhere that PG has no flavour, but the one I have tastes just like sugar with a little pepper when I put it on the tongue. It's 0 nic, so no harm done

 

[dannyv45]

Really? OK, I believe you, I'm just surprised! Or... I don't know... loads of people say they get no TH with 100% VG. I'm confused...
Then again loads of people say 100% PG liquids taste harsh, but the ones I've tried definitely did not.
Also it says almost everywhere that PG has no flavour, but the one I have tastes just like sugar with a little pepper when I put it on the tongue. It's 0 nic, so no harm done

My perception is More VG = less TH More PG = more TH but even that could be different for different folks. I tend to be on the higher VG side not because I'm adjusting throat hit but I'm actually adjusting to reduce the amount of the harshness caused by the drying effect PG has on the throat. But this really has nothing to do with how much flavor you use. The issue with flavor and VG is not how much you add but how long the flavor takes to move through VG. As VG is a thicker liquid and a slower desolver of flavor molecules it takes longer for flavor to move through and combine with VG.

As PG is a better disolver of flavor and a thinner liquid, flavor molecules take far less time to move through and combine with PG. So it's not how much you add but how long you wait for the flavor to combine with the base. If you wait long enough after mixing the results should be the same regardless of how much flavor you add or concentration of PG to VG.

What Hoosier states is also very correct. The amount of NIC used is what has the greatest influence on throat hit.

 

[monikaedv]

Then mixing 100% PG liquids will not be more complicated than PG/VG - that's cool

What you said about flavour molecules, do you mean that when vaping VG one's sensation of the flavour comes a little delayed, or do you mean VG needs more steeping time than PG? Or maybe both?

yes, the amount of nic of course. Luckily I'm getting used to lower nic/less TH pretty fast.

 

[Hoosier]

VG sometimes needs a longer steep. (closed bottle sitting out of sunlight for a time)
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[monikaedv]

The E-Liquid works in mysterious ways!

I think I'll buy 12 and 18 mg nic PG and dilute my 30% VG liquids little by little (+ add flavours) to see how much VG I can tolerate. Yes, that's what I'm going to do.

Thanks for the advice, now I suddenly have no idea what all the questions I planned to ask were!

 

[dannyv45]

Then mixing 100% PG liquids will not be more complicated than PG/VG - that's cool

What you said about flavour molecules, do you mean that when vaping VG one's sensation of the flavour comes a little delayed, or do you mean VG needs more steeping time than PG? Or maybe both?

yes, the amount of nic of course. Luckily I'm getting used to lower nic/less TH pretty fast.

Correct,
concentrations of more VG or PG has no influence on complexity of mixing. The more VG used the more steep time needed. After fully steeped there would be no difference (Flavor wise) between VG and PG. Only difference would be more of a drying effect (Dry mouth sensation) with higher PG concentrations. If that's the case just drink plenty of water.

 

[Jimi D.]

To me PG vaporizes hotter than VG. That's why there is a TH, but very little. My favorite ratio is 45/45 PG VG with 10% water. My flavors are very clear without that long lasting aftertaste. I've noticed my coils has less gunking, and wicks excellent. As the years went by I moved to a smoother vape. Probably due to lung hitting. I do crave TH every now and then. I just vape a nice clove mixture

 

[Aheadatime]

As others have said, I don't buy into the "VG mutes flavors" thing. Try out some experiments on your own. Mix a single flavor that you know and enjoy at your preferred % in two bottles, one 80% PG and one 80% VG. Give them both a week. Test them both. I'm pretty sure you'll find that while the two are slightly different (PG creates a dryness for me while VG is slightly sweet and soothing), the flavor concentrates themselves don't behave differently.

It's just that the bases themselves have different characteristics. This is why some vendors say that their PG/VG ratio is "proprietary", because they believe they've found the sweet spot (which I think is nonsense.. too subjective). VG tends to take a slightly longer time to steep and provides a slight natural sweetness, while PG creates a bit of a dry mouth/throat irritant (which doesn't compare in the slightest to the 'throat hit' from the nicotine). Looks like you should experiment for yourself. Ditch everything we've all typed, mix some experiments at various PG/VG ratios with the control group being the flavoring and %'s, and see what you think.

 

[monikaedv]

Thank you all for you're very helpful input!

@danny: Then I assume high PG will have more taste at inhale and high VG will have more taste at exhale and more aftertaste?

@Jimi: Then I guess VG will gunk up my throat slightly less at higher temperature - it seems so. I just now also tried to drink warm water while I vaped and I think it helped a bit. My need for TH has decreased a lot, I started at 24 mg nic and enjoyed that punch at a small spot and now I'm at 13,5 mg and prefer a TH that spreads all over like a warm breeze (by slower inhaling), hehe. The frustrating thing with vaping 30% VG is that as I vape my throat gets more and more coated (it starts after just a couple of puffs!), so I get less and less TH and I want the last few puffs to have the most TH. The coating is of course the reason I want to decrease the VG amount. When i vaped 100% PG I didn't have this problem at all.
Since I don't want to throw away the 70/30 PG/VG liquids I have, I'll try to mix them to a base that will be 1 part VG and 3 parts PG (which I believe will make them 7.5% VG) and then add flavours - 8 flavours are on their way from Inawera now, hooray! I LOVE L.S.D.!

@Aheadatime: As I said above; I can't do high VG, but thanks for your kind advice anyway

 

[dannyv45]

@danny: Then I assume high PG will have more taste at inhale and high VG will have more taste at exhale and more aftertaste?

I would imagine it would be different for everyone depending on the vaping equipment they use, voltage they vape at as well as coil configuration and particular mixture there vaping. I vape 65vg/35pg in a kayfun and kayfun mini attached to either a vamo vv or nemesis mod and notice more taste on the inhale. Experimentation is the mother of all inventions and for the new DYI'er a lot of experimentation is recommended. You are asking very good valid questions so your off to a good start and once you start experimenting this will all start to make sence.

 

[monikaedv]

ahhh yes, I tend to often forget the equipment aspect, hehe... thanks for the reminder
it's like when I read reviews and someone says that a clearo does nothing but fry juices, and someone says a juice taste like burnt rubber etc., and I believe every word until I suddenly remember people have different equipment and some don't know the vaping chart and some have vaped for two days at the time of writing their review!