FORBES article points out that "reduced harm" products might not become a reality

[Vocalek]

FDA's New Tobacco Scheme, And Its Legislative Underpinnings, May Go Up In Smoke - Forbes

FDA was to create a path to enable cigarette makers to transition away from smoked tobacco and win government approval of consumable products that used tobacco but presumably harbored less, and perhaps even none of the health risks posed by smoking. When this quid pro quo was pushed through Congress, the industry’s critics and allies each positioned it as a win-win. But it was dependent on FDA being able to establish – and maintain – a regulatory path that let tobacco get approval for new products that posed a “reduced harm” over traditional smoked cigarettes.

The tobacco industry’s critics are trying to impede a critical first step that FDA must take in creating that new regulatory architecture. The ability to fulfill all of the law’s goals is on the line.

 

[Fiamma]

FDA's New Tobacco Scheme, And Its Legislative Underpinnings, May Go Up In Smoke - Forbes

Reality trumps wishful thinking every time. Anti tobacco zealots will say anything to get to their immediate goal, then regroup and go in whichever direction and tell any lie(s) they think will get them to their next goal. Few of them, if any, told the truth about their ultimate intentions in the past but things are leaking out now. IMO their first goal was regulation of tobacco. Their ultimate goal is eliminating tobacco use, in any form whatsoever, altogether from everyone's life.

I am sick to death of all this, and I'm sure they count on that. Zealots never tire but the average person does get sick and tired of beating their heads against a masonry wall. Knowing that, we must soldier on and fight them at every turn.

What has always eluded my understanding is how does a human being come to be so warped and bent. What happens to them that makes them hell bent on ruling others lives and proclaiming how others should live their lives and inside which boundaries.

These people are truly proponents of "my way or the highway".

Get mad vapers. We have to beat these creatures at their own game and it's going to be a long long nasty fight.

 

[slin]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]
[/FONT]what has always eluded my understanding is how does a human being come to be so warped and bent. What happens to them that makes them hell bent on ruling others lives and proclaiming how others should live their lives and inside which boundaries.

money , money more money, power

I am sick to death of all this, and I'm sure they count on that. Zealots never tire but the average person does get sick and tired of beating their heads against a masonry wall. Knowing that, we must soldier on and fight them at every turn.

I feel the same way.....

 

[Petrodus]

What has always eluded my understanding is how does a human being come to be so warped and bent. What happens to them that makes them hell bent on ruling others lives and proclaiming how others should live their lives and inside which boundaries.

These people are truly proponents of "my way or the highway".

The "intellectual progressives" in America
believe they know what is best and they will decide
what freedoms will and will not be allowed.

 

[zapped]

Honestly, I think the problem with many of the anti tobacco zealots is that they have lost a loved one over its use.

Pity we cant hear from those lost loved ones.......I dont think they would be very happy with the direction their relatives have taken.

They would probably say "try blaming me instead of everyone else and get on with your lives"

 

[Petrodus]

I Would guess that many here on the ECF have lost a loved one
to smoking related cancer. But we don't hate smokers. We hate
those opposed to giving all smokers the opportunity to switch
to a safer alternative.

ANTZ are mindless "Quit or Die" ... Zelots

 

[JerryRM]

It does appear that the ANTZ have taken control. Today it's tobacco and nicotine use, tomorrow it will be saturated fats, sugar, etc, etc, etc.

This does not fare well for the freedom and liberty that the citizens of this country once had. I'm old, I will survive, but I have a great deal of pity for the younger generations, especially the children. The world that they will grow up and live in, will be one of total control of their lives.

 

[Petrodus]

It does appear that the ANTZ have taken control. Today it's tobacco and nicotine use, tomorrow it will be saturated fats, sugar, etc, etc, etc.

This does not fare well for the freedom and liberty that the citizens of this country once had. I'm old, I will survive, but I have a great deal of pity for the younger generations, especially the children. The world that they will grow up and live in, will be one of total control of their lives.

Nanny State is now the New Norm

 

[JerryRM]

Nanny State is now the New Norm

Petro, calling it a Nanny State is being too diplomatic, too kind. Let's call it for what it really is becoming, a dictatorship. Not a dictatorship of one person but a dictatorship by committee. A small group of power and money hungry people, who insist that everyone do as they say, or else suffer the consequences.

 

[JerryRM]

It all has changed. As an example, when I was young, if a youngster was caught smoking on school property, they were suspended for a few days. Now, if a youngster is caught smoking on school property, the police are called and that person is arrested.

 

[Fiamma]

Petro, calling it a Nanny State is being too diplomatic, too kind. Let's call it for what it really is becoming, a dictatorship. Not a dictatorship of one person but a dictatorship by committee. A small group of power and money hungry people, who insist that everyone do as they say, or else suffer the consequences.

That description when it comes to e cigs describes both the paymasters, pharma, and the zealots.

Another group who needs close watch is the CDC who with their funneling of stimulus money to both ANTZ and other would be control groups to warp local laws with respect to tobacco and ecigs is now moving into sugar, saturated fats, and other forms of denying freedom of choice.

Our school systems are brainwashing children as it is, and quashing critical thinking in the higher grades. I'm glad I'm 73, I don't think I would want to be around in another 30 years.

 

[Fiamma]

Honestly, I think the problem with many of the anti tobacco zealots is that they have lost a loved one over its use.

Pity we cant hear from those lost loved ones.......I dont think they would be very happy with the direction their relatives have taken.

They would probably say "try blaming me instead of everyone else and get on with your lives"

My mother died of emphysema and right side heart failure from smoking all her life. She could not quit. I lost track of how many times and how many methods she tried and failed at. If e cigs had been around when she became ill I believe she would have lived much longer, they would have been something she could have used and been happy with.

I believe in each person's right to choose for themselves which roads they will travel. I didn't quit because I was sick. I got mad about the sin taxes and what it cost me to smoke. E cigs do it just fine for me and I like nicotine in my system. I'm probably getting a lot less in my 4mg juice than I was in tobacco cigs, but it takes care of the things that become glaringly apparent when I am totally without nicotine, like depression, anxiety, inability to think cogently, and my overall happiness in my skin.

 

[Bill Godshall]

Scott Gottlieb (who wrote the article in Forbes) understands very few details of how the FSPTCA was drafted, negotiated and was lobbied for (by Philip Morris, GSK, and drug industry funded CTFK, ACS, AHA, ALA, AMA, AAP, etc. from 2002 - 2009 before it was enacted by Congress.

When these folks announced the new legislation in the spring of 2004, all of the legislation's sponsors, negotiators, and supporters staunchly opposed tobacco harm reduction products and policies, as Philip Morris and the drug industry's key reason for drafting and aggressively lobbying for the legislation was to establish FDA regulations that prevented new smokefree alternatives made by their competitors from being introduced into the market, and from truthfully claiming the smokefree alternative is less hazardous than cigarettes).

While all real public health advocates opposed the FSPTCA (because all real public health advocates are tobacco harm reduction advocates), drug companies gave more than one hundred million dollars to the largest anti tobacco group (CTFK), the largest voluntary health organizations (ACS, AHA, ALA) and several large medical trade associations (AMA, AAP, ADA) to endorse the FSPTCA as "the most important public health legislation in the history of the world to protect children from Big Tobacco".

Meanwhile, Philip Morris spent hundreds of millions of dollars lobbying Congress and giving them campaign contributions (from 2002-2009) urging them to enact the FSPTCA because "Unlike other tobacco companies, Philip Morris is responsible and supports FDA regulations".

But as least Gottlieb exposed the upcoming FDA meeting and he pointed out that the UCSF prohibitionists are nothing more than prohibitionists disguised as public health researchers.

 

[JerryRM]

Fi, I'm 63 and I don't want to be around in another 30 years, either. I mentioned our Constitutional rights to my 25 year old niece and not only was she not aware of our rights, but she thought that I was being silly to even mention such a thing.

I'm sure that the ANTZ will be very happy when us "old timers", are gone from this world.

 

[Petrodus]

Fi, I'm 63 and I don't want to be around in another 30 years, either. I mentioned our Constitutional rights to my 25 year old niece and not only was she not aware of our rights, but she thought that I was being silly to even mention such a thing.

I'm sure that the ANTZ will be very happy when us "old timers", are gone from this world.

Hi Jerry
We came of age in a different time ...
Today just mentioning, the Constitution, Bill of Rights, and or Our Founding Fathers
offends many ... even here on the ECF where we often refer to ourselves as Freedom Fighters.

For the Record ...
Jerry and I couldn't care less about being Politically Correct

 

[Elnroth]

Fi, I'm 63 and I don't want to be around in another 30 years, either. I mentioned our Constitutional rights to my 25 year old niece and not only was she not aware of our rights, but she thought that I was being silly to even mention such a thing.

I'm sure that the ANTZ will be very happy when us "old timers", are gone from this world.

Hi Jerry
We came of age in a different time ...
Today just mentioning, the Constitution, Bill of Rights, and or Our Founding Fathers
offends many ... even here on the ECF where we often refer to ourselves as Freedom Fighters.

For the Record ...
Jerry and I couldn't care less about being Politically Correct

Unfortunately I'm only 27, and I will probably be here thirty years from now. People my age disgust me with their ignorance of our system of government.

Oh, and being politically correct is a useless ideal. What happened to just being polite?

Edit: I wanted to put this quote in but couldn't remember the whole thing off the top of my head

That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. -- Thomas Jefferson-- Declaration of Independence.

 

[Petrodus]

Scott Gottlieb (who wrote the article in Forbes) understands very few details of how the FSPTCA was drafted, negotiated and was lobbied for (by Philip Morris, GSK, and drug industry funded CTFK, ACS, AHA, ALA, AMA, AAP, etc. from 2002 - 2009 before it was enacted by Congress.

When these folks announced the new legislation in the spring of 2004, all of the legislation's sponsors, negotiators, and supporters staunchly opposed tobacco harm reduction products and policies, as Philip Morris and the drug industry's key reason for drafting and aggressively lobbying for the legislation was to establish FDA regulations that prevented new smokefree alternatives made by their competitors from being introduced into the market, and from truthfully claiming the smokefree alternative is less hazardous than cigarettes).

While all real public health advocates opposed the FSPTCA (because all real public health advocates are tobacco harm reduction advocates), drug companies gave more than one hundred million dollars to the largest anti tobacco group (CTFK), the largest voluntary health organizations (ACS, AHA, ALA) and several large medical trade associations (AMA, AAP, ADA) to endorse the FSPTCA as "the most important public health legislation in the history of the world to protect children from Big Tobacco".

Meanwhile, Philip Morris spent hundreds of millions of dollars lobbying Congress and giving them campaign contributions (from 2002-2009) urging them to enact the FSPTCA because "Unlike other tobacco companies, Philip Morris is responsible and supports FDA regulations".

But as least Gottlieb exposed the upcoming FDA meeting and he pointed out that the UCSF prohibitionists are nothing more than prohibitionists disguised as public health researchers.

 

[Fiamma]

Scott Gottlieb (who wrote the article in Forbes) understands very few details of how the FSPTCA was drafted, negotiated and was lobbied for (by Philip Morris, GSK, and drug industry funded CTFK, ACS, AHA, ALA, AMA, AAP, etc. from 2002 - 2009 before it was enacted by Congress.

When these folks announced the new legislation in the spring of 2004, all of the legislation's sponsors, negotiators, and supporters staunchly opposed tobacco harm reduction products and policies, as Philip Morris and the drug industry's key reason for drafting and aggressively lobbying for the legislation was to establish FDA regulations that prevented new smokefree alternatives made by their competitors from being introduced into the market, and from truthfully claiming the smokefree alternative is less hazardous than cigarettes).

While all real public health advocates opposed the FSPTCA (because all real public health advocates are tobacco harm reduction advocates), drug companies gave more than one hundred million dollars to the largest anti tobacco group (CTFK), the largest voluntary health organizations (ACS, AHA, ALA) and several large medical trade associations (AMA, AAP, ADA) to endorse the FSPTCA as "the most important public health legislation in the history of the world to protect children from Big Tobacco".

Meanwhile, Philip Morris spent hundreds of millions of dollars lobbying Congress and giving them campaign contributions (from 2002-2009) urging them to enact the FSPTCA because "Unlike other tobacco companies, Philip Morris is responsible and supports FDA regulations".

But as least Gottlieb exposed the upcoming FDA meeting and he pointed out that the UCSF prohibitionists are nothing more than prohibitionists disguised as public health researchers.

You new vapers really need to read and understand that the deck has been stacked against vaping from the very beginning of the process to demonize smoking in the global population. The fight is ongoing and us old fogies are fighting this battle as hard as we can, not only for our own benefit, but for yours and the millions to follow you to a safer alternative to tobacco cigarettes. If you don't get active you can kiss this all goodbye.

 

[Vocalek]

Reality trumps wishful thinking every time. Anti tobacco zealots will say anything to get to their immediate goal, then regroup and go in whichever direction and tell any lie(s) they think will get them to their next goal. Few of them, if any, told the truth about their ultimate intentions in the past but things are leaking out now. IMO their first goal was regulation of tobacco. Their ultimate goal is eliminating tobacco use, in any form whatsoever, altogether from everyone's life.

I am sick to death of all this, and I'm sure they count on that. Zealots never tire but the average person does get sick and tired of beating their heads against a masonry wall. Knowing that, we must soldier on and fight them at every turn.

What has always eluded my understanding is how does a human being come to be so warped and bent. What happens to them that makes them hell bent on ruling others lives and proclaiming how others should live their lives and inside which boundaries.

These people are truly proponents of "my way or the highway".

Get mad vapers. We have to beat these creatures at their own game and it's going to be a long long nasty fight.

As I said in my comment on the FORBES story, I believe they have lost their moral compass. They became so focused on their goal of wiping tobacco companies off the face of the planet that they lost sight of the original goal of reducing smoking-related diseases and deaths.

 

[slin]

I'm glad I'm 73, I don't think I would want to be around in another 30 years.

I'm 63 and I don't want to be around in another 30 years, either.

These are not an option for you , if you continue to use E cig, you will be around another 40 years.