Gear up folks. The end is near.
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I mentioned the article not just because of the potential for health benefits from propylene glycol as a germicide, but that study way back in 1942 found absolutely no long term problems in the mice...and stated that monkeys breathing PG vapor non-stop for 3 years were "happier and healthier than ever".
There is a POSSIBILITY that humans could retain some PG over extended use, but there's no actual evidence to confirm that suspicion...and even if it turns out that inhaling a few milliliters of vaporized PG or Glycerin over the course of many years results in a build-up that is not quickly eliminated from the body, there are no reported cases of serious negative health effects.
If I was inhaling PG vapor just for its germicidal effects, it is possible that the risk of unknown long-term effects could outweight the benefits. But since I only inhale PG to quell the urge to inhale known toxins, it is an obvious choice.
Would it be better for me to have simply quit smoking immediately and completely? Maybe. The potential for PG as a germicide and evidence showing that nicotine might be useful for the treatment of some diseases like ADHD compared to the nearly unmeasurably low risks involved is not as clear cut as commercial pharmaceutical companies would like you to think.
I'm glad you're on the Board of Directors for CASAA because this is the kind of post I can support.
And no, I don't think I even voted for you.
As I understand it, to "troll" is to deliberately post a provocative thread on a forum to cause maximum disruption and argument. That was not my intention in starting this thread. I hoped to generate some level of discussion on the possibility that we might find ourselves facing the day when our last, best hope to continue enjoying some activity similar to smoking ends.
By stimulating discussion on that issue, I hope to motivate more people to take action in some way or another to work at reversing the damage done by government to the e-cig industry. If enough people feel frustrated and oppressed, and get passionate about this issue, maybe we can start to affect some kind of positive change in our favor.
I have written many emails to legislators in New York, New Jersey, and Washington DC, urging them to consider holding off on any legislation that severely restricts the sale and use of e-cigs, e-juice, and other, related products and accessories until adequate testing has been completed. In every case, my pleas fell on deaf ears. Within weeks of my letters to the Suffolk County, NY, legislature, Suffolk County banned e-cigs in public places. A day after emailing all of New Jersey's state assembly, e-cigs were banned in public places in New Jersey.
I am angry and fed up with the ignorance of politicians who reacted to a weak, half-assed press release from the FDA suggesting that e-cigs might be less than safe. I am outraged that analogs and drugs like Chantix are allowed on the market, despite KNOWN dangers, yet e-cigs are being targeted without so much as a legitimate lab test to support the attack.
We can all sit here and claim we know what the government will and will not eventually ban. We can assume that the process will take several years, and that we have time to enjoy our hobby. We can kid ourselves that anecdotal evidence is sufficient proof that vaping is safer than smoking.
Yes, PG is generally recognized as safe for human consumption. But consumption does not equal inhalation. Yes, a 1942 study failed to find evidence of lung damage due to long-term exposure to PG in laboratory animals. But how long is "long term"? What if we vape for years? What will that do to our lungs? And what about the flavorings? Is the "natural flavoring" in tobacco-flavored e-juice known to be non-reactive when inhaled into the lungs?
I WANT to believe that vaping is safer than smoking because I am not interested in quitting smoking. Not really. I have stopped smoking in favor of vaping because I find vaping to fulfill my desire to smoke adequately enough. I like the taste better, I like not smelling like an ash tray, and I like not spending upwards of $10.00 a pack for smokes (where I live, they range from $7.00-$10.00, and 2/3 of that cost is for taxes.)
But the concerns I have are the same concerns the government has. That's why e-cigs are being targeted so aggressively. And unsubstantiated web posts about the harmless nature of PG, anecdotal evidence from anonymous forum members, and angry rebuttals along the lines of "I KNOW vaping is better for me, so the government can go suck an egg because even if they ban e-cigs, I'll continue to make my own juice and PVs and puff away to my heart's content" are not going to save this industry.
One more time, and for the last time: Reliable tests conducted by reputable labs and publicized by legitimate media are the only weapons that will enable us to win this war. People outside of this forum, even those who don't smoke, need to know that this is a safer option that won't harm them if they inhale secondhand vapor. We cannot expect anyone in government to side with us unless we (or, more importantly the companies that comprise this industry) bring real proof to the table that we are right and that vaping is safe.
And we better hope that it's found to be TOTALLY safe. Many here insist that "nothing is totally safe", and that's probably true. But the movement against e-cigs is so entrenched, now, that any hint of a health risk will end the discussion.
I am sorry to be the messenger, and I don't like the idea of being shot (or labeled as a troll), but the end IS near for e-cigs. It's not a foregone conclusion, but I'd say the odds are pretty well stacked against us at this point.
Just so this is made clear: the FDA NEVER had a hand in approving tobacco products-in fact, there has never been serious regulation of tobacco in the U.S., until July of this year with the bill H.R.1256, the Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act". This is part of what I mean when talking about politics prevailing over science...it took nearly 50 years until the science made any difference at all. Here are some of the powers that were given to the FDA, finally:
"The bill, already passed by the House of Representatives, will change the face of the tobacco industry by giving the FDA the authority to restrict tobacco product ingredients, impose nicotine caps and limit advertising campaigns."
Wow, right? one of the deadliest products sold to consumers was unregulated for 230 years...
J4mmin
Props to Sepper for the funniest post I've ever seen here. OMFG.
"The bill, already passed by the House of Representatives, will change the face of the tobacco industry by giving the FDA the authority to restrict tobacco product ingredients, impose nicotine caps and limit advertising campaigns."
Wow, right? one of the deadliest products sold to consumers was unregulated for 230 years...
J4mmin
Props to Sepper for the funniest post I've ever seen here. OMFG.
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That's exactly right. E-cigs are a cash cow for the freaked up US government. Tax and spend, tax and spend.
No way will these things be banned. But look for some derivative of S-CHIP to kick in.
Screw it. I am switching to lettuce.
Of course, with all my misgivings, I've still been sucking on my PV like a pacifier all evening. No urge to smoke, though.
Of course, with all my misgivings, I've still been sucking on my PV like a pacifier all evening. No urge to smoke, though.
Call me crazy, but I don't feasibly see them banning e-cigs.
At most, I see them putting taxes on the products, but even then, how could they justify it?
I agree with another poster that they may ban the candy and "fun" flavors, but that's presuming that the Feds actually care enough to give this issue some thought. I feel like there's way more in this country that the government is worried about besides e-cigs.
Sidebar: I really don't understand why major tobacco companies haven't jumped on this bandwagon already.
At most, I see them putting taxes on the products, but even then, how could they justify it?
I agree with another poster that they may ban the candy and "fun" flavors, but that's presuming that the Feds actually care enough to give this issue some thought. I feel like there's way more in this country that the government is worried about besides e-cigs.
Sidebar: I really don't understand why major tobacco companies haven't jumped on this bandwagon already.
Well, I'm gonna go loose cannon on all of us.
As far back as the seventies I didn't see the FDA going after anything new until it became politically correct. Cigarettes did just about everything they wanted to--they even killed the cowboy...only my generation complained. But when the women started complaining about the smell, etc., then they started getting banned in a few places. (the warning label was already there).
As time passed, the 'cutie' movement progressed and became louder. More restrictions and bans came out.
Despite what everybody else is saying--I humbly disagree......We The People are probably the ones that will kill the e-cig (if it is killed).
Finally, yeal, I know, the cuties weren't the only ones involved--but they were the ones with the numbers to give it backing everywhere. (no, I can't prove any of this).
As far back as the seventies I didn't see the FDA going after anything new until it became politically correct. Cigarettes did just about everything they wanted to--they even killed the cowboy...only my generation complained. But when the women started complaining about the smell, etc., then they started getting banned in a few places. (the warning label was already there).
As time passed, the 'cutie' movement progressed and became louder. More restrictions and bans came out.
Despite what everybody else is saying--I humbly disagree......We The People are probably the ones that will kill the e-cig (if it is killed).
Finally, yeal, I know, the cuties weren't the only ones involved--but they were the ones with the numbers to give it backing everywhere. (no, I can't prove any of this).
I just want to add something here, I've read almost the entire thread about some people having "allergies" or "negative" reactions to PG or VG but I've never seen a case in which someone was allergic to both at the same time.
This means that if you are allergic to VG then vape PG and vice versa.
My point is that PG (I'm not sure about VG because I'm strictly PG) can cause irritation of the liver and kidneys if you are a heavy vaper like myself. Anybody who is experiencing pains in there liver or kidney area is obviously not drinking enough water to wash it out of these areas. The human liver and or kidney can have trouble getting rid of PG if they don't drink enough water on a daily basis.
The reason I point this out is because when I first started vaping I was drinking hardly any water. I was drinking way too much Pepsi or Coke and not very much water. I started getting slight sensations (or mild pain if you will) in my liver and kidney area. I know that I'm not allergic to PG, and this might not even apply to everyone, but as for me when I started drinking more water throughout the day the pains or sensations disappeared for good. I notice that when I am drinking water, usually plenty or water but not always, the pains go away.
My conclusion is that some people who don't drink enough water should start doing so to avoid or get rid of any pains that they are having. It worked for me quite well. I got some pain, drank more water, and the pain went away. I read where PG can cause these above stated problems and by simply drinking more water they went away. I assume (I'm not a doctor) that by drinking more water my body was better able to cope with the buildup of PG.
I may be wrong but with more water the pain was gone. Thank you and I hope that this might help anyone who experienced the slight setback as I did.
I love my vaping and I will do anything in my power to continue vaping. Do I spend too much money on vaping, well probably. I can't wait for GG's to be sold in the US! Hopefully very soon because I am waiting to buy my Transformer!
Vape on everybody and don't worry about what the pessimists say because vaping has been around in other parts of the world for years and there have been no reports of serious health issues due to vaping anywhere.
This means that if you are allergic to VG then vape PG and vice versa.
My point is that PG (I'm not sure about VG because I'm strictly PG) can cause irritation of the liver and kidneys if you are a heavy vaper like myself. Anybody who is experiencing pains in there liver or kidney area is obviously not drinking enough water to wash it out of these areas. The human liver and or kidney can have trouble getting rid of PG if they don't drink enough water on a daily basis.
The reason I point this out is because when I first started vaping I was drinking hardly any water. I was drinking way too much Pepsi or Coke and not very much water. I started getting slight sensations (or mild pain if you will) in my liver and kidney area. I know that I'm not allergic to PG, and this might not even apply to everyone, but as for me when I started drinking more water throughout the day the pains or sensations disappeared for good. I notice that when I am drinking water, usually plenty or water but not always, the pains go away.
My conclusion is that some people who don't drink enough water should start doing so to avoid or get rid of any pains that they are having. It worked for me quite well. I got some pain, drank more water, and the pain went away. I read where PG can cause these above stated problems and by simply drinking more water they went away. I assume (I'm not a doctor) that by drinking more water my body was better able to cope with the buildup of PG.
I may be wrong but with more water the pain was gone. Thank you and I hope that this might help anyone who experienced the slight setback as I did.
I love my vaping and I will do anything in my power to continue vaping. Do I spend too much money on vaping, well probably. I can't wait for GG's to be sold in the US! Hopefully very soon because I am waiting to buy my Transformer!
Vape on everybody and don't worry about what the pessimists say because vaping has been around in other parts of the world for years and there have been no reports of serious health issues due to vaping anywhere.
think godly.
e-cigs are a form of uncleanness
it is a fleshly lust for the nicotine
your mind makes you think your body enjoys/needs it, and that it is a good pleasure to vape your brains out.
in reality, it is of sinful lust and uncleanness. same with caffeine.
but we are all addicted to it, im just saying im going to try to quit, and we all should, not for ourselves, but for God. He loved us first, therefore we should love Him by doing His will.
and i'm sure his will isn't for us to be doing this crap.
If i consistantly vape, i get piercing pains in my lower right side, sometimes left.
piercing pains makes it scary, which makes this habit terrible and unsafe.
it is a worldly corruption, better than cigs or not, this is the first step to quitting nicotine, and everyone should ween off of e-cigs while they still can.
im going to try to, it is hard though, can anyone even quit e-cigs?!
they seem harder to quit than real cigs, because here we get probably much more doses of nicotine, which is hardcore, because then we rely on more and more. it's almost like C R A C K.
and that isn't even allowed to be said on the forum im sure.
but it is true, and i love you all and wish for everyone including myself, to resist the evil temptations of this world, that we may see that which is to come.
for this world shall pass away and a new one will be made.
so you can deny the truth and act like vaping is like skipping through a field of daisys compared to cigarettes, or you can get to reality with its seriousness of merely replacing cigs with a similar alternative which doesn't rid the problem that we had in the first place. the addiction to that which is unclean, a dependency which is not righteous.
grace and peace unto you all, from our Lord Jesus Christ.
Listen anything I mean anything can come in the mail even after a ban.. Lets look at Cuban cigars for example.. I know then can be shipped right to my front door if I want.
No offense but i'm convinced that God provided my PV
so that i might be closer to the divine with each sacred breath,
each day cleaner and more pure than the previous.
Indeed as the carbon monoxide exits my brain
i am permitted all the more cleansing oxygen to enter,
and i am being healed,
physically, mentally, and spiritually.
I'm further convinced that God gave me this body
in order to enjoy the pleasures of the flesh.
Nothing dirty about it IMO,
albeit, wildly OT unless you mistook the title of the thread
as a reference to Armageddon.
- joe
I believe that we should demand a good deal more from our suppliers. The nicotine warnings are all well and good, but are not enough. Child-proofing is VERY important. Having kids and pets becoming ill or dying is going to put a stop to everything very quickly. Most of us are responsible, but the bottom ten percent will screw us as surely as they do everyone, in every community. I think the raw nicotine is the likely item to be banned. The e-cig and other e-juice ingredients will remain legal, but to what point?
Hehe! bless you, sir!
however, it is encouraged that we suffer like Christ in the flesh! not to please the body with fleshly desires!
but yeah, you're right, the title made me think of the coming of Christ and the end-times
Hehe! bless you, sir!
however, it is encouraged that we suffer like Christ in the flesh! not to please the body with fleshly desires!
but yeah, you're right, the title made me think of the coming of Christ and the end-times
Wow that is pretty intense my God loves me enough to allow another human the brain power to make me a PV that I could quit cigarettes...
think godly.
e-cigs are a form of uncleanness
it is a fleshly lust for the nicotine
your mind makes you think your body enjoys/needs it, and that it is a good pleasure to vape your brains out.
in reality, it is of sinful lust and uncleanness. same with caffeine.
but we are all addicted to it, im just saying im going to try to quit, and we all should, not for ourselves, but for God. He loved us first, therefore we should love Him by doing His will.
and i'm sure his will isn't for us to be doing this crap.
If i consistantly vape, i get piercing pains in my lower right side, sometimes left.
piercing pains makes it scary, which makes this habit terrible and unsafe.
it is a worldly corruption, better than cigs or not, this is the first step to quitting nicotine, and everyone should ween off of e-cigs while they still can.
im going to try to, it is hard though, can anyone even quit e-cigs?!
they seem harder to quit than real cigs, because here we get probably much more doses of nicotine, which is hardcore, because then we rely on more and more. it's almost like C R A C K.
and that isn't even allowed to be said on the forum im sure.
but it is true, and i love you all and wish for everyone including myself, to resist the evil temptations of this world, that we may see that which is to come.
for this world shall pass away and a new one will be made.
so you can deny the truth and act like vaping is like skipping through a field of daisys compared to cigarettes, or you can get to reality with its seriousness of merely replacing cigs with a similar alternative which doesn't rid the problem that we had in the first place. the addiction to that which is unclean, a dependency which is not righteous.
grace and peace unto you all, from our Lord Jesus Christ.
Ok, so I have to say that I hope you are being on the sarcastic side when you posted this. I am not religious at all so I really cant get next to the whole "e-cigs are a form of uncleanness" thing. I do my best to control my so called "sinful lust", but when it gets a little overwhelming I just let it run wild LOL.
As far as the actual nicotine goes, we all know that is it very hard to quit and that is why we love using an e-cig. It's a way for us to get our nicotine fix without having to smoke an analog. That seems to be what just about everyone here likes to do.
If you really feel that you want to quit nicotine all together, you can get juice that will slowly take you off nicotine all together. The do make 0 nic juice you know.
Once you are on 0 nicotine, you can be clean again. I prefer to stay dirty
Peace, and don't forget to live and let live.
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Like Jesus said, the Pharisees cleaned themselves and others up on the outside but on the inside (their heart) they were just self-righteous hypocrites. They are those.... "Which say, Stand by thyself, come not near to me; for I am holier than thou. These are a smoke in my nose, a fire that burneth all the day." (Isa 65:5)
As fishers of men, we're to catch men and let God clean them. And that's just what He did to me when I was tempted and He provided a way of escape with vaping. If it makes the Pharisees feel better, I don't care for nicotine. But I have to confess my caffiene, and my conscience doesn't bother me about either one.
For the life of me I just can't see how anyone can stop the use of the e-cig. They're just too easy to make, and all the makings for juice is just around the corner (Hobby Lobby, Walmart, etc). If you want nicotine, just squeeze out your patches and gum. (If you want suicide, try Chantix, or even smoking, we know those kill.)
I'd like to see some quality control so we can know these devices and juices are as safe as all the other goods we buy in this country. We just need some good standards.
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Like Jesus said, the Pharisees cleaned themselves and others up on the outside but on the inside (their heart) they were just self-righteous hypocrites. They are those.... "Which say, Stand by thyself, come not near to me; for I am holier than thou. These are a smoke in my nose, a fire that burneth all the day." (Isa 65:5)
As fishers of men, we're to catch men and let God clean them. And that's just what He did to me when I was tempted and He provided a way of escape with vaping. If it makes the Pharisees feel better, I don't care for nicotine. But I have to confess my caffiene, and my conscience doesn't bother me about either one.
For the life of me I just can't see how anyone can stop the use of the e-cig. They're just too easy to make, and all the makings for juice is just around the corner (Hobby Lobby, Walmart, etc). If you want nicotine, just squeeze out your patches and gum. (If you want suicide, try Chantix, or even smoking, we know those kill.)
I'd like to see some quality control so we can know these devices and juices are as safe as all the other goods we buy in this country. We just need some good standards.
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Time to move the thread outside, I think...I see a great religious battle ensuing...lol...
Time to move the thread outside, I think...I see a great religious battle ensuing...lol...
of course earthly people will think e-cigs are good and the way to go, and try to tell me otherwise about what i know to be true. we were corrupted by the world.
i hope we all stop this ungodly inhalation. but hey, let the vile be vile.
i make no sense to people who dont hear me.
that's fine.
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