God, Jesus, Church and Vapers

[Blue Knight Max]

My Brother, You have chose wisely!!

 

[mgrimes]

The issue wasn't about vaping and going to hell but about dis-respecting a worship service for the purpose of being offensive. Offense for the sake of offense is just silly. Regarding mgrimes' questions about religion, as has been stated, there is a difference between religion and spirituality. Spirituality is about the relationship with God. Much more important than rituals. IMO everyone owes it to themselves to explore the God that is rather than one we create. Many religions require some form of work or good deeds to balance the ledger and secure "salvation." Others worship the dead or inanimate objects of nature. Some are never assured of salvation. I like to keep things simple and go to the source of all creation. Look about and you will see the handiwork. It's faith! Earlier in the thread someone mentioned Norman Geisler's book "I Don't Have Enough Faith to be an Atheist." It's good reading but not for the faint hearted and yes it's great apologetics.

Insightful. I suppose I'm more into having a discreet relationship than a formal one indoctrinated with implicit judgement and elitism wrapped up in religion as an institution. As you say there are many seeking to "balance the ledger" and I've often asked why would I serve a God that was so critical and judgmental of those of whom were presumably "made in his image"? Of words we follow written by men that are exactly those being judged and criticized by their Maker? Makes my head spin. (Or maybe that's the juice i'm vapin' )

I suppose saying atheist is harsh, but lets just say I'm pretty stuck on the scientific method given my purpose has consisted of years of computer science rapture in college -- of which faith is.. shall we say -- largely diametrically opposed to playing by these same rules.

 

[Blue Knight Max]

Insightful. I suppose I'm more into having a discreet relationship than a formal one indoctrinated with implicit judgement and elitism wrapped up in religion as an institution. As you say there are many seeking to "balance the ledger" and I've often asked why would I serve a God that was so critical and judgmental of those of whom were presumably "made in his image"? Of words we follow written by men that are exactly those being judged and criticized by their Maker? Makes my head spin. (Or maybe that's the juice i'm vapin' )

I suppose saying atheist is harsh, but lets just say I'm pretty stuck on the scientific method given my purpose has consisted of years of computer science rapture in college -- of which faith is.. shall we say -- largely diametrically opposed to playing by these same rules.

You see, that is the misconception many people have. Yes he will judge us when the day comes but what outweighs that more than anything else is his love for us. His "Agape" love. God loved the world so much that he sent his own begotten son to die for our sins.

That "Critical and Judgemental" God you refer to just does not exist except in the minds of those that do not have a good understanding. (I am not implying that you don't have a understanding by the way.)

It's all about his love.

The words that we follow, yes were written by men, But, while writting these words, they were being guided by the Holy Spirit to do just that. That is our faith.

 

[Blue Knight Max]

The forum is now open..

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/christian-vapers/

I am waiting on Smokin Joe to move this thread over to the new location so that we may continue the fellowship and interesting conversations.

God Bless

Max

 

[ZambucaLu]

I can move it

Lu

 

[LuckyCharm]

I'm not sure where, or even if, it was brought up, about vaping in church, but I would tend to view it kind of like eating or drinking in church. Normally we don't do that, except in the context of holy ritual. Now, if it were a very informal church setting, and you could sit way at the back and vape unnoticed, that might be one thing, but otherwise, why put a stumbling-block in your brother's path? Save it for the social hour afterward!

~~Cheryl

 

[Blue Knight Max]

I can move it

Lu

Thanks Lu !!

 

[ZambucaLu]

You're most welcome! Well, off to bed for me. Have a good night all!

Lu

 

[NicoNut]

Lu is always ready to help! Maybe we need a Mr. ECF!

Thanks Lu!

 

[Vince1]

I think Lu would make a great Ms. ECF. SHE is great.
A lot of people call her Sam and refer to her as he or him, but she is totally cool about it.

 

[ZambucaLu]

Eh....Sam....Lu....he....she....I've been called a lot worse....lol

Thanks guys!

(Yes, I am a female...lol)

Lu

 

[NicoNut]

Sorry Mrs. lady Lu!

You're not the first I've done that to!

 

[The Wiz]

Eh....Sam....Lu....he....she....I've been called a lot worse....lol

Thanks guys!

(Yes, I am a female...lol)

Lu

Lu......I feel really bad...I thought you were a man through my first 900 posts!...LOL....Sorry Miss/Mrs. or Mz.!The Wiz!

 

[MissVapor]

I feel very similar to you..I remember thinking to myself one day, "if they would just come up with a fake cigarette that was healthier I stop smoking"..and THAN...I saw it on TV, I was so excited!

Anyways, even if it is healthier, I still have that burdon of an addiction (an idol). I try to hope that GOD can see it as me trying to do better. (treat your body as a temple) but it's still probably not what he wants for us. (Niether is ice cream or french fries though)

Im so torn, but I've been vaping for 4 months and I havn't had an analog for 3 days now b/c Im really determined and positive Im done for good.. If for some reason vaping doesn't work out I will NEVER go back to smoking analogs again..

 

[Blue Knight Max]

I feel very similar to you..I remember thinking to myself one day, "if they would just come up with a fake cigarette that was healthier I stop smoking"..and THAN...I saw it on TV, I was so excited!

Anyways, even if it is healthier, I still have that burdon of an addiction (an idol). I try to hope that GOD can see it as me trying to do better. (treat your body as a temple) but it's still probably not what he wants for us. (Niether is ice cream or french fries though)

Im so torn, but I've been vaping for 4 months and I havn't had an analog for 3 days now b/c Im really determined and positive Im done for good.. If for some reason vaping doesn't work out I will NEVER go back to smoking analogs again..

What God sees is what is in your heart. Remember, he is a merciful God and thank you Jesus, he is a God of grace.

If what is in your heart is to take really good care of his temple, he sees that you vaping instead of smoking is a step forward in the right direction. Always remember that by God's mercy and grace, we always move from Glory to Glory, forward and never backwards. Vaping for many of us here, is a step forward.

As far as vaping being an "idol", opinions can and will differ among the bretheren. I once thought the same thing but after really thinking about it, I came to a different conclusion. My take on it is that God said "You shall have no other Gods/Idols before me". The magic word here is the word "Before".

Do you leave your Church in the middle of service to go outside and have a vape? Do you stop praying in the middle of your prayer time to have a vape? Do you not tithe or donate money to your church so that you can have money for your vaping habit? Do you put your e-cig and vaping "before" God? If you answered "NO" to the questions above, then it is in my opinion that your/our vaping habit does not fall into the "idol" category.

However, if you answered yes to any of the above questions, then in my opinion, I feel that it does fall into the "idol" category.

People will argue the point using other products that many of us are addicted to like for example: Coffee. Or how about in Church durring praise and worship you never sing along, you never raise your hands up onto the Lord, let alone applaud for God or even stand up. But yet, in a live rock concert or watching American Idol on TV, you sing along, you raise your hands and applaud. It is a valid argument.

What is important here is what is in your heart. Bible says "A man is what is in his heart".

God is always looking to see what is inside one's heart. If he is first in your heart and no other (or anything) is first, then I can say in faith that you have no other idols before God.

May God give you the strength to stay away from analogs. You need to pray for it.

Remember, God says "You have not because you ask not"

God Bless,

Max

 

[MissVapor]

Thanx Max, I try to remind myself of what you are saying about GOD but I think sometimes I am so critical of myself and feel like Im not good enough to go to heaven, which of course I know it has nothing to do with because none of us are "good enough"..

GODs grace should be sufficient enough, but than there are Bible verses like "you should walk as Jesus did" and if you say you believe in him but don't do what Jesus commands than you are a "liar".

I get so torn

 

[LuckyCharm]

Jesus said (John 14:15) "If you love Me, keep (or you will keep) My commandments." The question is, what are His commandments? Well, a man asked Him just that in Matt 19:17-21. The Jews of those days had something like 613 commandments to keep, and the scribes and Pharisees never tired of reinterpreting them to make them even stricter. No doubt it was a bewildering and daunting prospect to try to keep them all! But Jesus named off several of the Ten Commandments and left it at that. The young man wasn't satisfied. He'd been keeping those all his life. How hard is it not to commit murder, not to steal, to honor one's father and mother, etc.? So Jesus said if he really wanted to be a saint, go sell everything he had and give it to the poor, and to come follow Him. Now THAT was going a little too far for the guy, and he was forced to look inside, not at his "righteousness," but on his upside-down value system. His great possessions meant more to him than spiritual perfection. No wonder he went away sad.

In Matthew 25, we have the story of the sheep and the goats. "When did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison...?" Jesus says that how we treat the least of these is how we treat Him! (Not to make this political, but what could be more "least" of those than a lonely Arab picked up by greedy bounty-hunters and turned over for imprisonment at Gitmo, naked, hungry, and sick? Think about it...)

So what does this have to do with vaping and the body being a temple? Well, the latter can be carried too far. I just this morning placed an order for some kind of new omega-3/berry capsule in response to a radio infomercial. I've never done something like that! (Note to self: never order anything by phone before my first cup of tea!) But the health claims just sounded so good, I had to have it. Now, could we imagine Jesus doing something like that? I can almost hear Him laughing at me....

Can I imagine Jesus vaping? Sure I can, especially if (when?) it becomes affordable enough to not be considered an extravagance. He was reviled for being a "glutton" and a "drunkard," so obviously he enjoyed a few bodily pleasures that were verboten to the scribes and Pharisees. But He just blew them off -- "It's not what goes into you that defiles you, but what comes out of you." He meant our words and actions. Do our actions help other people, or hurt them? If your addiction is such that you know that without e-cigs you'll be back to tobacco, is that helpful to those around you, and our environment -- or hurtful?

Hope this makes sense. I'm on my second cup of tea now...

Cheers,

~~Cheryl

 

[MissVapor]

Jesus said (John 14:15) He was reviled for being a "glutton" and a "drunkard," so obviously he enjoyed a few bodily pleasures that were verboten to the scribes and Pharisees. But He just blew them off -- "It's not what goes into you that defiles you, but what comes out of you."

Just curious where in the Bible does it say Jesus was a "glutton" or "drunkard"? I must have totally missed that part..

 

[Blue Knight Max]

Thanx Max, I try to remind myself of what you are saying about GOD but I think sometimes I am so critical of myself and feel like Im not good enough to go to heaven, which of course I know it has nothing to do with because none of us are "good enough"..

On the contrary MV,
I got good news for you.
Because Jesus died on the cross, that does make us "good enough". He was battered and bruised for our inequities and died on the cross for our sins.

The Bible says that to enter the kingdom of heaven, all you have to do is accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior and whole heartly repent of your sins.

GODs grace should be sufficient enough, but than there are Bible verses like "you should walk as Jesus did" and if you say you believe in him but don't do what Jesus commands than you are a "liar".

I get so torn

Again, I got more good news for you,

Yes, we should walk as Jesus did, but walk behind him. He is our shepard and we are the sheep. We have to try our best to walk "in Love" as he did. We are not liars at all. If we walked exactly as he did, then that would make us perfect. If we were perfect as Jesus, then why would we need God?

Jesus was also a teacher. He taught us how one should live. We as Christians should really try our best to do the same. However, if we slip here and there, that does not make us "liars", it's just our human nature. We are all sinners and as Christians, we repent.

I believe the most important thing here is your relationship with God and Jesus. Are you more into scripture or into your relationship with God? There are people that can recite scritpure left and right but have a weak relationship with Jesus.

Where is your relationship with God? How do you stand?

MV, Fall deeper in love with God. Strengthen your relationship with him. When you get overwhelmed with his love, you'll will see that he is merciless and forgiving. He wants nothing but the best for you in all areas of your life.

Strengthen your faith. Faith comes by hearing the word of God. As your faith gets stronger, you will see that in faith, you are good enough!!

As your relationship and faith with him deepens, your thoughts (as written in your post) will be a thing of the past.

 

[LuckyCharm]

MV, see Matt 11:19 and Luke 7:34. Also Matt 15:11: "Not what goes into the mouth defiles a man; but what comes out of the mouth, this defiles a man."

~~Cheryl