Going to build my first coil this week - suggestions welcome!

[-KT-]

Hi All,

I just started vaping recently and I am hooked! I now have a SMOK G150 (150 watt) mod, and both Baby Beast and Big Baby Beast Tanks. I have already noticed how different juice tastes between the various prebuilt V8 "screw in" coils. After seeing some coil porn on the web, I decided I would give it a try!

My background:

I used to do watch repair as a hobby, so I am used to working with things that are small. I have also worked with metal (heat treating, annealing, etc.) as part of different pastime. I have done a lot of research on Ohm's Law.

I figured I would start with the V8 Baby RBA - since it's cheap, and I won't have to buy another tank right now (since it works with the Baby and Big Baby Beasts). I fully expect to outgrow it soon, but it's a start.

I am waiting for the RBA, and a Coil Master DIY Kit V3 kit to arrive in the mail (and an 18650).

I have viewed quite a few YT videos as well.

SO - my questions are:

1) Does anyone know what gauge wire comes with the Coil Master DIY Kit V3 kit?

2) What diameter coil should I wrap as my first coil with that wire (or any wire)? Is there a kind of general good starting diameter for beginners?

3) Would it be possible to make a kind of single z-shaped coil (that would work in series) rather than making two coils (that work in parallel)? I made a drawing - the green arrow represents current flow. I imagine that hot spots could be fixed by having certain parts of the "z-shaped" coil wrapped differently than other parts. Has anyone tried this?

My thoughts (and I could be way off) is that it would give the benefits of low-ohm vaping (increased flavor and clouds), but without having to go as low on the ohms.

Thoughts? LOL, or do I have WAAY to much time on my hands!!!!

 

[DaveP]

Your wattage range influences your wire choices as well as the number of turns in a coil and the number of coils. I vape under 20W in mouth to lung style. Those who vape high VG juices and like large clouds could probably use the same .5 ohm coil I do, but the higher air flow in their direct to lung atomizers lets them vape at higher wattage simply because they are drawing more air volume past the coil to keep the vape cool.

Spend some time here playing with the numbers and watching how they vary in the results column and it will all begin to make sense. The Heat Flux numbers tell you about how efficient the coil will be in producing the heat level you want.
Coil wrapping | Steam Engine | free vaping calculators

Wire gauge is dependent on wattage. Coil heat rise time varies with wire gauge and the power you vape at. What you want is a coil that heats quickly at your wattage. For me that's 28ga SS316L, 2mm coil diameter, 6 to 8 turns, and 10 to 12 watts. For a higher watt vape that may require 26 or 24 gauge wire or even larger.

 

[Don29palms]

I guess you could make a coil like you describe but the question would be why?

 

[-KT-]

Your wattage range influences your wire choices as well as the number of turns in a coil and the number of coils. I vape under 20W in mouth to lung style. Those who vape high VG juices and like large clouds could probably use the same .5 ohm coil I do, but the higher air flow in their direct to lung atomizers lets them vape at higher wattage simply because they are drawing more air volume past the coil to keep the vape cool.

Spend some time here playing with the numbers and watching how they vary in the results column and it will all begin to make sense.
Coil wrapping | Steam Engine | free vaping calculators

Wire gauge is dependent on wattage. Coil heat rise time varies with wire gauge and the power you vape at. What you want is a coil that heats quickly at your wattage. For me that's 28ga SS316L, 2mm coil diameter, 6 to 8 turns, and 10 to 12 watts. For a higher watt vape that may require 26 or 24 gauge wire or even larger.

Cool! Good info - thank you!

 

[-KT-]

I guess you could make a coil like you describe but the question would be why?

Good question!

I thought through the math and realized that when we use dual coils, we are halving the ohms. What I have read is that people started going to low-ohm coils because they had more surface area (thicker wire - which lowers resistance). But it looks like RBAs are mostly set up so that people wire the coils in parallel.

If the coils were wired in series - then the resistance would stay high - and there would still be larger surface area - but the ohms would not be so low as to require as much wattage/amperage.

Unless I am wrong, I think the advantage of wiring in parallel is not so much for vapers, but rather for manufacturers. It increases the "horsepower" that people need to vape. This increases sales, etc. . .

High resistance wire can get hot extremely easily as well. Perhaps not instantly. But if what we do (vape) requires us to get wire to a certain temperature, it seems interesting that the industry is doing it in a way that requires the most powerful equipment.

ETA: I found this -

"Joule heating, also known as ohmic heating and resistive heating, is the process by which the passage of an electric current through a conductor produces heat.

"Joule's first law, also known as the Joule–Lenz law,[1] states that the power of heating generated by an electrical conductor is proportional to the product of its resistance and the square of the current [. . .]"

Joule heating - Wikipedia

This is why things like space heaters and hair dryers use high-ohm heating elements. If we lived in a world where space heaters were like low-ohm vapes, we would need literally tens of thousands of watts and hundreds of amps to use them. A typical home circuit breaker trips at 15 amps. I admit I am very new to the world of vaping, but it's just interesting to me that the industry is engineering things in a way that requires so much amperage and wattage.

 

[Don29palms]

Well good luck with that. Let us know how it works out.

 

[-KT-]

Thank you. Yes, I am planning to just start with regular two coil builds - I am not even certain that there's a way to run a wire across the top of the V8 Baby RBA without the risk of it shorting against a terminal.

 

[bombastinator]

Well it sounds to me like you’re gruesomely overprepared. Aside from possibly overthinking all this into a knot I don’t think you’ll have any trouble.
People like low ohm coils because they don’t get as hot as easily and are generally a bit easier to deal with. Really long split coils like you are talking about tend to have lots of hot spots. I generally won’t wrap a coil with more than 8 loops. They can get unwieldy. Looking at your 12 wrap split coil there, you’re going to have to watch out for it melting in the center where juice cooling doesn’t reach. It may also act like a hot leg.

 

[-KT-]

Well it sounds to me like you’re gruesomely overprepared. Aside from possibly overthinking all this into a knot I don’t think you’ll have any trouble.
People like low ohm coils because they don’t get as hot as easily and are generally a bit easier to deal with. Really long split coils like you are talking about tend to have lots of hot spots. I generally won’t wrap a coil with more than 8 loops. They can get unwieldy. Looking at your 12 wrap split coil there, you’re going to have to watch out for it melting in the center where juice cooling doesn’t reach. It may also act like a hot leg.

Agreed. I tend to overthink things. I think part of it is because I really want to understand what I am doing, but I agree that I may be overthinking this a tiny bit. Part of it too is that I am excited to be getting more into customizing my vaping experience!

I actually think the manufacturers of "drop in" coils - like the SMOK T6 for example - already use both serial and parallel wiring. If you look at the bottom of a T6 (or the top), there are only 3 wires. Yet there are 6 coils. So it's really 3 parallel sets of 2 coils each (that are in turn wired in series).

This is probably why it runs at .2Ω - and not lower. It appears they get around the single wire cooling issue by having the two coils in each of the 3 sets basically bathed in cotton (hence juice).

 

[bombastinator]

Agreed. I tend to overthink things. I think part of it is because I really want to understand what I am doing, but I agree that I may be overthinking this a tiny bit. Part of it too is that I am excited to be getting more into customizing my vaping experience!

I actually think the manufacturers of "drop in" coils - like the SMOK T6 for example - already use both serial and parallel wiring. If you look at the bottom of a T6 (or the top), there are only 3 wires. Yet there are 6 coils. So it's really 3 parallel sets of 2 coils each (that are in turn wired in series).

This is probably why it runs at .2Ω - and not lower. It appears they get around the single wire cooling issue by having the two coils in each of the 3 sets basically bathed in cotton (hence juice).

View attachment 697597

Nothing wrong with deep learning. It’s what makes the world work. Yep. Serial wiring isn’t new, it’s old. The old “dual coiled” ce cartos circa 2012 were serial wired for example. It’s got it’s own problems, one being they’re a pain to wrap, which I suspect is what drove them out of fashion.

 

[DaveP]

KT, the right coil resistance using the right wire will heat up and boil the juice in about a second. The more mass in the coil the more power it takes to heat it. Fancy coils are cool, but they may be battery hogs and time consuming to get right.

If this is your first try at building you might want to start simple and work on the more complicated builds as you progress in expertise and technique.

 

[-KT-]

Nothing wrong with deep learning. It’s what makes the world work. Yep. Serial wiring isn’t new, it’s old. The old “dual coiled” ce cartos circa 2012 were serial wired for example. It’s got it’s own problems, one being they’re a pain to wrap, which I suspect is what drove them out of fashion.

Ah, that totally makes sense about the production issues with serial wiring.

Sent from my R1 HD using Tapatalk

 

[-KT-]

KT, the right coil resistance using the right wire will heat up and boil the juice in about a second. The more mass in the coil the more power it takes to heat it. Fancy coils are cool, but they may be battery hogs and time consuming to get right.

If this is your first try at building you might want to start simple and work on the more complicated builds as you progress in expertise and technique.

Agreed. I think my first coils should be simple so I can get a feel for what I am doing and what the effects are of different aspects (coil diameter, number of wraps, wire type, wire diameter, etc.)

My goal with all this is to both learn something new and have fun, to be honest.

I am certainly glad I found this forum!

Sent from my R1 HD using Tapatalk

 

[DaveP]

Agreed. I think my first coils should be simple so I can get a feel for what I am doing and what the effects are of different aspects (coil diameter, number of wraps, wire type, wire diameter, etc.)

My goal with all this is to both learn something new and have fun, to be honest.

I am certainly glad I found this forum!

Sent from my R1 HD using Tapatalk

I know it's elementary, but you might start with a basic single coil that Steam Engine likes for your wattage and progress from there. Airflow, wattage, and heat balance is a biggie. Once you get that working like you want it, dual coils and fancier designer coils are easy.

I'm still vaping an MTL single coil, 2mm, 6 wraps, and .52 ohms. I burn through about 10ml juice a day recreating the exhale of my old Merit Filter cigs.

 

[Mr. Relentless]

22 gauge triple fused clapton twisted sleeper coil... jk

 

[Letitia]

Get a second rba or a rda, vape on one while you test your theory on the other.

 

[-KT-]

LOL, working right now on my first semi-build. The SMOK RTA comes with coils pre-installed. But they were kind of ugly. So I am recoiling them to clean them up a bit and make them fit better on the deck.

If no catastrophic things happen I will post pics in a little bit.

Agreed on the second vape!

What do people use to clean coils after getting their fingers all over them. Isopropyl? Soap and water?

Sent from my R1 HD using Tapatalk

 

[Mr. Relentless]

Hit the fire button

 

[Letitia]

You're overthinking again... just dry burn to clean coil.

 

[Katya]

The old “dual coiled” ce cartos circa 2012 were serial wired for example.

Ahem... not the ones I used. They were all wired in parallel. Still are--GS Air dual coils are configured in parallel: 1.5Ω coils consisting of two 3Ω coils.

Carry on.