Good news for Canadians and pressure on the US to follow suit!

[GBalkam]

Actually, I completely disagree. eliquid WILL be taxed. Why CAN'T the federal or provincial government tax a nicotine delivery system?

People won't stand for it? What makes you believe that?

Because, 86% of vapers were former smokers. Smokers usually come from a family of smokers, and have seen family members die of smoking related causes. Non-smokers have smokers in their family, or friends, that smoke and have seen the effects of smoking. This means we see vaping as a means to get off tobacco, regardless of what the FDA and Health Canada says. We can't claim it as a medical device to quit smoking, but you can't ignore the fact that that is what happens. It is a harm reduction device. So now you have smokers in outrage, family and friends of smokers in outrage, and even Joe Avg in outrage about an infringement on our rights, whether Joe smokes or vapes or not.
Now, trying to stay within forum rules.. certain plants.. were made illegal in the 1920s. Now in 2016 they are being made legal, well as much as cigarettes at least. Since they couldn't stop it, and more and more people were indulging, they made a change. vaping is different. Vaping literally exploded in popularity. Enough so, that whether you admit it or not, vapers are a political force that can not be ignored, and had best not be alienated.

 

[BreSha6869]

Because, 86% of vapers were former smokers. Smokers usually come from a family of smokers, and have seen family members die of smoking related causes. Non-smokers have smokers in their family, or friends, that smoke and have seen the effects of smoking. This means we see vaping as a means to get off tobacco, regardless of what the FDA and Health Canada says. We can't claim it as a medical device to quit smoking, but you can't ignore the fact that that is what happens. It is a harm reduction device. So now you have smokers in outrage, family and friends of smokers in outrage, and even Joe Avg in outrage about an infringement on our rights, whether Joe smokes or vapes or not.
Now, trying to stay within forum rules.. certain plants.. were made illegal in the 1920s. Now in 2016 they are being made legal, well as much as cigarettes at least. Since they couldn't stop it, and more and more people were indulging, they made a change. Vaping is different. Vaping literally exploded in popularity. Enough so, that whether you admit it or not, vapers are a political force that can not be ignored, and had best not be alienated.

Dude, you are preaching to the choir. I'm completely with you. Vaping almost certainly saved/extended my life and my wife's. I am involved in the vaping community and I am as pasionate about it as a much safer alternative to smoking as anyone.

I am telling you that eLiquid will be taxed over and above HST in the future and 100mg nic will not be available in the same manner it is today. End of conversation.

 

[LouisLeBeau]

Not everyone in the States runs up and down the sidewalk waving the flag, dancing around like Ali chanting We are the greatest. A lot is the Gov't promoting the idea "We are the greatest country in the world", mainly to get the public eye off the problems that exist. That isn't the average Joe's fault, but it is what people have been force fed since at least The Great Depression. I mean, sure the US is a nice country, but so is Canada and other countries. We all have problems of course.

There was certainly a time when most Americans thought America was the greatest country on the planet, and they were largely correct. It has been at least 30 years since we could make an argument for the cause though, and most Americans now know it. We're not blind to the fact it now takes TWO full time workers in a family to hope for The Dream. Our health care and education systems are fraught with waste, inefficiency, and aren't even CLOSE anymore to being the best in the world. Our Peace Officers now look like Ranger Ops teams and have completely disconnected from the populace in the communities they are supposed to serve. Half the country lives in mortal fear of what the other half wants. On both sides. Yes, we all have problems.

That said, if the FDA has their way, a LOT more people are going to become familiar with Canada. I've already established a relationship with a vape retailer there, just to be safe. Oh, and I come over and cherry pick the LCBO's offerings when the currency exchange favors that. That was a LONG wait this time around too!

 

[GBalkam]

Well, I'm only one guy. Half of my family being Canadian, and having lived there, gives me some unique perspective.

Canadians forget that a lot of their perks (free college, universal health care) aren't just functions of your high taxes. Canada reaps a HUGE benefit, especially given its size and value of the natural resources, by the fact that we have your back on Defense. It would be a GIANT cost, given your geographic size and relatively small population. If you actually had to worry that someone might come and take your stuff, a lot of that tax money would disappear before reaching the populace.

Generally speaking, you are a homogeneous bunch too. Mostly white and of various European ancestries. So, a lot of the tensions we are dealing with here, you are not, or at least on a MUCH smaller scale. It seemed from my perspective, that YOUR immigrants come for education rather than jobs, Oriental more than Mexican or Cuban. How it looks in Windsor anyway. I know Toronto is dealing with some gang issues, but, come on. Nothing like what is going on in L.A.

And yes, our activity as World Cop is bringing us a lot of grief. Our Nato partners are playing important roles, but who gets consistently named as the bad guy by the Isis's and Al Qaeda's in the world? Sadly, I see backlash lately in Canada, and I am sorry, but it will change your world forever if you choose security over liberty as we have. Well, WE didn't choose it, our government did. Conveniently.

But your comments about Prohibition and Sunday Shopping. Now THOSE interest me. When I moved to the border town of Windsor Ontario, it was the SLEEPIEST little city. Everything closed on Sunday, I loved that. That is as it should be, that we all take a day to be with family. I am sorry you had to lose that to compete.

But here is the thing. When the drinking age changed to 21 here, Windsor was VERY active in enticing the 18-20 crowd over to club. Michigan fought Casino's for YEARS. It wasn't until Canada built a huge one in Windsor, 1/4 mile from the tunnel, that Casino's were finally allowed here. We got tired of watching all those dollars flow across the border. And nude dance clubs. Another Windsor folly to attract Michigan residents.

I have customers in Windsor. At the point that you had 19 year old drinking, nude dancing, and casino's and we had none, one remarked to me about the quality of the people that were coming over the border every weekend. It pained me to say it to a customer, but I had to point out WHICH Americans Canada was actively enticing over. Young adults being plied with alcohol, gamblers, and perverts. Hardly a representative cross section of Michigan's population.

Why do you think we have a 5000 mile undefended border between Canada and the US? Do you think Canadians are worried about Mexico? We actually do have our very own defense, thank you very much. And even though you might not admit it, our forces are better trained. Plus, everyone likes Canada and Canadians.
As for world cops.. we don't need to be. We are mediators and peace keepers. And don't fool yourself, just because the peace keepers keep the peace, doesn't mean they can't kick some serious ... if they have to.
Now as for being homogeneous, yes we pretty much are. We are all about diversity. If you are referring specifically to the racial issues of blacks in the US, then you are correct, we don't have that problem, at least not to any major extent. But remember, Canada has always welcomed and accepted people fleeing the US for racial reasons, nor have we ever kidnapped anyone, stealing them away from their homes and families as a economic resource, to be bought, sold, traded or scrapped (killed) if they didn't "work" right. That problem is on the US and now you are dealing with it. Again, no offense to the majority of US citizens, you aren't responsible for what people did over 100 years ago. You just have to deal with the mess. We have First Nations People here in Canada, and they weren't always treated the best either, but things are changing.

Ask some of your US troops that trained with Canadians about what our forces are like. I know there are at least 4 that would probably rather not talk about it. (usually, it is a bit of fun and some good laughs at the end of the day.)

 

[GBalkam]

Dude, you are preaching to the choir. I'm completely with you. Vaping almost certainly saved/extended my life and my wife's. I am involved in the vaping community and I am as pasionate about it as a much safer alternative to smoking as anyone.

I am telling you that eLiquid will be taxed over and above HST in the future and 100mg nic will not be available in the same manner it is today. End of conversation.

Just remember, you are in Ontario, and I am in Nova Scotia, we were actually the first to put a model regulation in place that made both vapers and HC happy. I mean sure, we want to be able to import nicotine, or buy it at the pharmacy, and vape shops want to be able to vape in the shop, since they are 18+ anyway and well face it.. not vaping in a vape shop is like not drinking in a bar. The tax you are referring to is called a "sin" tax. Such as on cigarettes, tobacco, alcohol, that other stuff when the legislation is finalized.. and after spending hundreds of millions to promote not smoking, to tax vape juice would be political suicide. And to classify vaping as being something to apply a sin tax too, would open the door to taxing coffee, tea, chocolate and softdrinks, and that just ain't gonna happen. Tax my Timmies? WHERE'S MY TORCH AND PITCHFORK???

 

[JMarca]

Congrats to Canadians well done!

As far the US, the US government has never followed another country simply to not look bad. They have no problem looking bad and doing evil things as long as it fills their pockets. Sadly, even worse usually it's the exact opposite with other countries following our evil doings just so other countries can say well the US is doing it so we should too.

I hope the FDA gets a rude awakening with the shift in government next year but I'm skeptical.

 

[GBalkam]

There was certainly a time when most Americans thought America was the greatest country on the planet, and they were largely correct. It has been at least 30 years since we could make an argument for the cause though, and most Americans now know it. We're not blind to the fact it now takes TWO full time workers in a family to hope for The Dream. Our health care and education systems are fraught with waste, inefficiency, and aren't even CLOSE anymore to being the best in the world. Our Peace Officers now look like Ranger Ops teams and have completely disconnected from the populace in the communities they are supposed to serve. Half the country lives in mortal fear of what the other half wants. On both sides. Yes, we all have problems.

That said, if the FDA has their way, a LOT more people are going to become familiar with Canada. I've already established a relationship with a vape retailer there, just to be safe. Oh, and I come over and cherry pick the LCBO's offerings when the currency exchange favors that. That was a LONG wait this time around too!

Yeah, we all have our problems and black sheep and skeletons in the closet. But the point of the original post, was Canada and the US do actually work closely together, especially where money and freedoms are concerned.
And remember, you coming across to Canada to shop.. well the US shops are going to scream bloody murder to the Gov and quote losses of revenue and jobs, and that is hard to ignore and harder to dispute. Remember what I was saying about Sunday shopping? The US had it first, Canada was losing revenue and jobs, and now we have it Canada wide.

 

[GBalkam]

Congrats to Canadians well done!

As far the US, the US government has never followed another country simply to not look bad. They have no problem looking bad and doing evil things as long as it fills their pockets. Sadly, even worse usually it's the exact opposite with other countries following our evil doings just so other countries can say well the US is doing it so we should too.

I hope the FDA gets a rude awakening with the shift in government next year but I'm skeptical.

Yeah, but don't forget, it isn't about you looking bad to other countries, it is about YOU wanting FREEDOM, in this case, freedom to choose to vape or drink coffee or have a beer when you want to. I can say one thing with 100% conviction, both people in the US and Canada react hard and fast when we perceive a threat to our freedoms. This just happens to be the freedom to choose to vape or not. And "we don't know what it might do 30 years from now" is not going to be accepted as a reason when we all know what the effects of smoking will be. I mean, This will kill you vs this could cause breathing problems, maybe.. or maybe not... Hmm let me think on THAT one for a minute. Ok I decided.. pass the cotton dude!

 

[GBalkam]

Oh.. BTW, thanks to the admin and mods for allowing this kind of off the topic convo. Some sites really pitch a royal fit about it. Congressional fit in the US?

 

[Maestro]

I doubt anything Canada or the rest of the world does is going to have much influence in the states. Doesn't matter if it's better. If someone else thought of it, they don't want it. I tease my American wife about it all the time. Nope, they're going to stick to their gallons, yards, pounds and phillip screws.

 

[Eskie]

Philips screws are bad? Er, what does everyone else use?

 

[sofarsogood]

I doubt anything Canada or the rest of the world does is going to have much influence in the states. Doesn't matter if it's better. If someone else thought of it, they don't want it. I tease my American wife about it all the time. Nope, they're going to stick to their gallons, yards, pounds and phillip screws.

There's a place for both. On the road and around the house I want feet, yards and miles. My vape is all metric. At work I measure in inches and thousanths but all my fastners are metric. I operate a cnc engraver. The design software rulers are in inchs and can't be changed to metric even though the machine and the software are french. So call me agnostic on measuring systems..

 

[LouisLeBeau]

Philips screws are bad? Er, what does everyone else use?

They're OK if you use the metric ones.

 

[crxess]

Thanks, Love he News..............

Sadly

USA / FDA

I do hole out hope though.

 

[sofarsogood]

I just checked youtube and there he is, Don Cherry, with his side kick, just as ham fisted and pushy as ever and quite the stylish dresser too. He must be so old he fought in the war of 1812, which america won by the way. You don't get good information up there in canada. But, jeez, Don Cherry still working. He should get a Nobel prize, for something. There must be one for hockey, right?

 

[BreSha6869]

I just checked youtube and there he is, Don Cherry, with his side kick, just as ham fisted and pushy as ever and quite the stylish dresser too. He must be so old he fought in the war of 1812, which america won by the way. You don't get good information up there in canada. But, jeez, Don Cherry still working. He should get a Nobel prize, for something. There must be one for hockey, right?

Watched him last night and every Saturday night. Always watch Coach's Corner after the first period of Hockey Night in Canada. Don and Ron McLean have been doing this for decades.

 

[JMarca]

Yeah, but don't forget, it isn't about you looking bad to other countries, it is about YOU wanting FREEDOM, in this case, freedom to choose to vape or drink coffee or have a beer when you want to. I can say one thing with 100% conviction, both people in the US and Canada react hard and fast when we perceive a threat to our freedoms. This just happens to be the freedom to choose to vape or not. And "we don't know what it might do 30 years from now" is not going to be accepted as a reason when we all know what the effects of smoking will be. I mean, This will kill you vs this could cause breathing problems, maybe.. or maybe not... Hmm let me think on THAT one for a minute. Ok I decided.. pass the cotton dude!

It doesn't really matter what the people of the US want when it comes to freedom, sure we fight for it but how often does it actually change anything? Change.org? Petitions, rallies, donations, going to court hearings, giving personal testimonials... I've done all of this and far more in the past few years, how much has that really changed anything at all? The only way to get the FDA off our back right now is to fight one greedy power with an even bigger greedy power.

Trump's cabinet at the moment is very pro-vaping. That's a good thing for us vapers, not a good thing for the future of our country but I digress either way that's neither here nor there as far as this conversation is concerned. We might have a shot at getting the FDA off our back but make no mistake it wasn't because we fought back or we made an impact we just happen to elect the right (or wrong) people into office at a time where vaping desperately needed it. It's great if they can do at least one thing right and get the FDA off our backs, would save alot of people who still smoke and could potentially switch to vaping and save their lives in the process.

 

[Eskie]

Trump's cabinet at the moment is very pro-vaping. That's a good thing for us vapers, not a good thing for the future of our country. Either way that's neither here nor there as far as this conversation is concerned. We might have a shot at getting the FDA off our back but make no mistake it wasn't because we fought back or we made an impact we just happen to elect the right (or wrong) people into office at a time where vaping desperately needed it. It's great if they can do at least one thing right and get the FDA off our backs, would save alot of people who still smoke and could potentially switch to vaping and save their lives in the process.

The only person in his tentative cabinet who really matters right now is his HHS nominee, Rep. Tom Price. He was not a cosponsor of Cole Bishop and his views on vaping are, at least to the best of my knowledge, unknown. Given the President-elect's stated approach on relying on those around him to make lots of decisions, as they're really smart and he takes their word for it, I wouldn't be looking for lots of White House debate over the merits here. Besides, we already know where Pence stands on it.

 

[JMarca]

The only person in his tentative cabinet who really matters right now is his HHS nominee, Rep. Tom Price. He was not a cosponsor of Cole Bishop and his views on vaping are, at least to the best of my knowledge, unknown. Given the President-elect's stated approach on relying on those around him to make lots of decisions, as they're really smart and he takes their word for it, I wouldn't be looking for lots of White House debate over the merits here. Besides, we already know where Pence stands on it.

Pence doesn't really matter once he makes vice president he's going to be too busy to even care anymore. Tom Price and an overwhelming majority senate will fight the FDA tooth and nail, he'll win that fight easily with red backing just to piss off the democrats. He already sent the FDA a warning letter to not pass any new laws too quickly that will be overturned with the house all in his parties favor the FDA must be shaking in their boots right now. He's also had a bone to pick with the FDA since 2008 when they fought over making cigars illegal.

 

[sofarsogood]

What appears to be happening in Canada is promsing. I find Trumps picks for secretaries and advisors fascinatng. I'm occaisionally hearing discussion of topics on the merits instead of dumbass propaganda. That's refreshing. So we need to be practicing making good points on the merits, no propaganda from our side. My stockpile is about half done. Since the election in not feeling so parinoid about us being bushwacked. May be I'll relax a bit about perfecting my stash.