GotVapes PHOENiX RAVENS

[<---cop]

Vapeking.com.au

 

[me1969]

I know a vender that was getting them and they put order on hold but they didnt know why .

 

[BonnyC]

Quick question Dan, I know you're busy. I'm contemplating going ahead and placing an order but before I did that I wanted to find out how you're doing the refunds. Are you going in any particular order? Alphabetical? Issuing refunds by the time the order was placed?

Thanks!

 

[Big Screen D]

I think Chris goofed and didn't mean to quote you on that. To be honest EVERYONE here, EVERYONE has been extremely understanding and because of your attitude, it made it easy for us to step up and make the decision to refund all purchases. To be quite honest, nothing less would have been fair or adequate. I'll go wash dishes and flip burgers for someone before I stand behind what happened, on the manufacturer side. I'll stand behind our customers FIRST.

What happened was Wrong IN EVERY ASPECT.

I spoke with Betterlife last night and they are going to send out samples with the old design. To be quite honest I am in the camp that says they goofed on the assembly of these - we even had one customer who found a seal in one of their cartos. The owner of Betterlife was telling me last night, and admitted, that they could not believe the QC issues on just even the holes on the side, they admitted there was a major breakdown on this. Went and inspected and saw every-which-way sort of hole, partially closed, fully closed, etc.

They are a GOOD company though, the problem is they are still actually fairly young. I told them last night that they need to get another QC person on their production line and they learned the hard way from this that they cannot cut corners on that.

They are sending 'samples' with the old version we tested originally that worked. I think what happened is they DID realize they goofed and this OLD version is actually the way it should have been in the first place. Remember, on the clear Phoenix XL, you have a unit that can be QC'd simply by looking at it. With these, the fact that there was no airstem and seal would be hidden from view on a casual glance.

There is absolutely NO WAY you can turn this into tank atomizer and say, "Yes it works as before" or even to say "Yes it works better this way."

They are scrambling now and I assure you this, they will fix this. We will get samples and see how their 'fix' solves the issue. If it seems to have solved the issue will we get hundreds more of these, thousands? NO. Because of what happened it would-not-be-wise to be mainlined until we can get a smaller batch of these and put them in ALPHA first.

On a side note, as far as your refunds they will start being processed probably some time this weekend. The completion of this will probably be two weeks or so, that is my goal. Hopefully can happen more quickly.

Assuming y'all can get them to correct the wicking issue, they also need learn how to make a proper and consistent coil. I know Chris had conveyed this to them, but they did not correct this at all. There is similar inconsistency in the manufacture of the XL, but at least those can be adjusted by knowledgeable users. Maybe they can hire the people wrapping the coils in the Stallions. They are all perfectly wrapped/formed.

 

[matt.e.]

Got home and gave it another go. The usual, 4 or 5 good hits then nothing. I don't have spare parts laying around to play with these so I suppose I'll just wait patiently for the replacement cartos to come in. Meanwhile these are going to be put to use dripping new juices. I stand by my comment I made on my order, you guys are awesome! I've only ordered from GotVapes a couple of times and I've decided that for all my hardware needs they will be my go-to vendor. Between what I've read and what I've now experienced first-hand the customer service is A1. Buying online is always a gamble, but knowing that a vendor actually cares about their customers and is willing to do what it takes to make people happy is a big plus in my book. Oh yeah, the candy doesn't hurt either Another "Oh yeah," you could probably get all my juice business too if you could recreate a certain personal favorite that I have to get elsewhere.

 

[WallyO]

All righty then. My second attempt with the Raven looks hopeful. The first was like everyone else. Good, dry, good, dry. Just took one of my carto's apart and raised the metal shield on top of the coil assembly approx 1/32". When apart the ends of the wicks looked black. Metal dust of some machining residue powder? Who knows. Anyway rinsed everything off well in hot water. Dry burned. Reassembled, filled with GV Butterscotch and have vaped myself into a nicotene stupor ... again. Dang I hate testing stuff. I honestly can no longer go on tonight. But not one dry hit after at least 30 tokes. At first I was not planning on raising the hood as much as I did but then figured what the hell. For reference my original measurement from the top of the carto to the lip of that cap in the slot was 1.375". I moved it up to 1.340". That cap serves the same purpose as the posts in the other models. The center of it goes into the coil / wick cup and regulates how much fluid the wick is exposed to. Right now it is almost flush with the top of the cup. In it maybe .010" if any.
Yes these still do rely on a slight vacuum in the tank to keep the juice from flooding through. If you don't believe that just raise the top cap after it's filled.
It twisted and pulled apart without too much difficuly. One pair of pliers kinda holding in the slots and the other on the 510 threads. (they are not very pretty anymore) Probably fair a lot better if you cut up an aluminum can and used a piece in between the pliers and where you are holding. Actually copper shim would be best but that's not readily available for most.
I thought I had some lower nic juice to vape but if I do I can't find it.
Just wanted to throw out there that there is a bit of hope. Good vapor so far but the flavor does not seem as good as the XL's. Maybe that'll change tomorrow with a bit more breaking in. We'll see what kind of leakage, if any it gets overnight. So far it's looking OK. Actually a bit better than OK.
Anyway I'll post again tomorrow with an update, good or bad. I realize most folks aren't going to want to play with this and really you shouldn't have too, but if you want to tinker there is a glimmer of light down that tunnel.
OMG just took another toke and still good. No gurgle, no dryness.

This adjustment I did last night is still working and working very well. Only a drop of leakage out the base overnight and I am attributing that to massive condensation from my chain vaping last night. Took my morning drag with squinced eyes expecting the worst, but no surprise yet. Good vapor and OK flavor but I am getting Butterscotch OD. Love that flavor but I can see, not as an all dayer. The flavor is not as intense to me as the original design though. I think that is because instead of getting a concentrated flavor through the little center tube, now you are drawing through a very short restrictor and then it's expanding into a larger chamber before getting to the drip tip. I am sure that is also creating a ton of condensation which eventually gets back down to the coil which is probably also attributing to the flavor difference because you are thinning down the future hits.
That thin restrictor plate is their idea of replacing the tube and IF it would work as well as the long center tube would have been a huge shortcut for them. No tube, no silicone cap times thousands and thousands.
I will take a couple more apart today and try and post a picture so you can better understand what I am describing i f I can squeeze it in. And this one I'll fill with Pyramid Fusion and maybe another with BB just to see how it does with relatively a heavy juice.

Here is the dimension I was referring to. Man these are a pain to get apart without any damage to the tube but it can be done.

Here is the coil assembly and the restrictor cup they are using instead of the tube. When I first looked yeterday I thought it was a thin sheet metal type piece. You can see it is much larger than I assumed. Wouldn't you know it. The coil cup is .005 smaller in diameter than the other Phoenix's so the XL tube can not be put in properly. If they would have kept it the same size this would have beed a piece of cake to convert.

Here is a pic with an easy out I had that fits perfectly in the carto tube so I can squeeze on it without smashing it. I insert the tool, wrap in rubber and hold it in a vise. Once held I grab the 510 thread with pliers(using a 510 extender on the outside to protect the threads) and kinda twist and pull.

Basically by changing the dimension shown you are adding .030 to the wick area allowing a better flow. The restrictor is in there plenty tight. You will need to find a suitable size object and tap with a hammer to get it where it works.
I tried one going even bigger but that floods. The original I did is still going good. I have not had one dry hit. No major issue at the moment.

If you feel like playing this seems to work but it's definately a step we should not have to do and no one expects us to do. But I always wake a sleeping dog. Even though it does work it is in no way better than the XL's as far as vapor and flavor.

 

[WallyO]

Assuming y'all can get them to correct the wicking issue, they also need learn how to make a proper and consistent coil. I know Chris had conveyed this to them, but they did not correct this at all. There is similar inconsistency in the manufacture of the XL, but at least those can be adjusted by knowledgeable users. Maybe they can hire the people wrapping the coils in the Stallions. They are all perfectly wrapped/formed.

You are absolutely right. I have opened up six cartos so far and they all look unique. Some are nice seperate coils, the others are all jammed together. No QC on these at all.

 

[hdzrtvap]

Holy moly, this thread is sill growing... Whats the point? Maybe im getting old but i just don't see why every one sees the need to keep reporting how bad these things are. Seems it would be more helpful to spend the time and energy on the good things in life.

Looking foward to seeing the ravens back on the site after GotVapes has had a chance to look into the issue.

Ok, carry on...

 

[rdsok]

Holy moly, this thread is sill growing... Whats the point? Maybe im getting old but i just don't see why every one sees the need to keep reporting how bad these things are. Seems it would be more helpful to spend the time and energy on the good things in life.

Looking foward to seeing the ravens back on the site after GotVapes has had a chance to look into the issue.

Ok, carry on...

The point should be obvious really... In past products that were newly released and that had issues... it was, to some extent, the reports from the users that helped isolate the issues in order that a resolution could be found

As an example... I had issues similar to this with the Phoenix XL cartos... it was found that the QC on the coils and wicks were part of that problem that was being reported and now those are a favorite carto of many users. It is starting to look like a similar issue may in part also be the problem with the Raven's.

In addition, if the current design can be corrected, without adding the center tube and seal... the cost to manufacturer the Ravens would be less and would in the end cost the users less at some point. If this doesn't work ( using the current design with a few tweaks )... then the previous design can be brought back online since it was working well.

 

[yiddleboge6]

Don't know if the manufacturer is monitoring this thread or not, but seems to me they would be more apt to listen to the voices of many, as opposed to what just a few may say. Just IMHO

 

[dodari]

Holy moly, this thread is sill growing... Whats the point? Maybe im getting old but i just don't see why every one sees the need to keep reporting how bad these things are. Seems it would be more helpful to spend the time and energy on the good things in life.

Looking foward to seeing the ravens back on the site after GotVapes has had a chance to look into the issue.

Ok, carry on...

I am sure that Dan and Chris are benefiting from the efforts and observations of these folks who have the gumption, talent, and guts to pursue a solution to the various problems with the subject unit. I call it damned good R&D.

So, onward you who dare to explore, innovate and spend time and your own resource seeking solutions. Bravo, great spirit you have. Thanks to all who dare go beyond just average. Thank you guys, every darned one of ya.

 

[BonnyC]

Okay, I posted this in the raven modding thread, but I want to put it here, too. For what it's worth, I went through 1/3 of a tank, which was how high I filled it after doing this, and I haven't gotten one bad hit. It's actually been pretty darn stellar. Hopefully this helps someone else and if it does, let us know. Here’s the post:



"What's the fix (not band aid) we use when a phoenix BC refuses to wick well even after raising the post?

We thin the wicks.

I used some tweezers to poke and prod at the wick holes until enough was sticking out so that I could get hold of it. I managed to pull about one strand of the wick, which seems to be the same size as the bc's wick in terms of length and diameter of the strands. At first I was worried that I had pulled too much out. Now, I'm thinking that I might have pulled out just enough. Maybe.

I've switched to 0mg juice because 24mg is ridiculous with this frequent testing. I have 50/50 cherry cheesecake 0mg in it right now. It's crackling like a fresh phoenix, a very good sign. It almost seems like it could flood, but my battery is dry. Draw is a bit tighter. Vapor and flavor are significantly better. Or maybe this juice is just that good 

I've hit the 10 long draws mark and I feel kind of hopeful. I'll finish this tank and follow up. I also intend on doing some chain vaping.

Edit : holy cow, bubbles! When I vape AND when I primer puff! With 50/50 juice! I wonder if thinner juice would flood it?"

 

[WallyO]

Here is the dimension I was referring to. Man these are a pain to get apart without any damage to the tube but it can be done.
View attachment 129084
Here is the coil assembly and the restrictor cup they are using instead of the tube. When I first looked yeterday I thought it was a thin sheet metal type piece. You can see it is much larger than I assumed. Wouldn't you know it. The coil cup is .005 smaller in diameter than the other Phoenix's so the XL tube can not be put in properly. If they would have kept it the same size this would have beed a piece of cake to convert.
View attachment 129082
Here is a pic with an easy out I had that fits perfectly in the carto tube so I can squeeze on it without smashing it. I insert the tool, wrap in rubber and hold it in a vise. Once held I grab the 510 thread with pliers(using a 510 extender on the outside to protect the threads) and kinda twist and pull.
View attachment 129083
Basically by changing the dimension shown you are adding .030 to the wick area allowing a better flow. The restrictor is in there plenty tight. You will need to find a suitable size object and tap with a hammer to get it where it works.
I tried one going even bigger but that floods. The original I did is still going good. I have not had one dry hit. No major issue at the moment.

If you feel like playing this seems to work but it's definately a step we should not have to do and no one expects us to do. But I always wake a sleeping dog. Even though it does work it is in no way better than the XL's as far as vapor and flavor.

Holy cow! Just for giggles I took one of the soft silicone drip tips that come with the XL's and shoved the small end of an XL center tube in it and stuck that in my adjusted Raven. What a difference. This is what they should be like. Drawing through that tube has doubled the vapor and flavor is much better. You'll feel when it's in right. That restricter cone is tapered so it will find it's spot down there. Just make sure that some pressure is exerted by the silicone drip tip when you put the whole thing in.
Betterlife has to modify these to go back to that center post.

edited to add ...WOW!

edited to add another...WOW!

 

[Errol]

Holy moly, this thread is sill growing... Whats the point? Maybe im getting old but i just don't see why every one sees the need to keep reporting how bad these things are. Seems it would be more helpful to spend the time and energy on the good things in life.

A lot of people had a lot to get off their chest after a long frustrating wait with an even more frustrating conclusion. Do you really want to deprive them of that pleasure? Think of the dog that didn't get kicked or the mate that didn't get yelled at because they were able to vent their frustrations here.

Errol

 

[dannoman]

Thansk Bonny- I am goign to get started on those this weekend, I am gogin to start in serial order (first orders, first refunded) We are goign to probably do 30-40 a day.

Quick question Dan, I know you're busy. I'm contemplating going ahead and placing an order but before I did that I wanted to find out how you're doing the refunds. Are you going in any particular order? Alphabetical? Issuing refunds by the time the order was placed?

Thanks!

 

[Briar]

Well, that's pretty conclusive, then - the tube should have been in there. Wow. The scope of this QC error is kinda amazing. I guess they'll have to learn from this particular disaster. I'm still kinda stunned... How can all these units come off the assembly line and no-one notice that they are missing a significant part entirely?..

I'm sorry for a somewhat off-topic long-ish story here, but I can't resist. This happened decades ago in USSR (where I was born). Of course, this may be a joke from those years, rather than an actual story, it has been 40 years after all, but it's really typical of that time in Russian history, and if this exact thing didn't happen, I can play witness to very similar incidents:

Some dodo somewhere along the chain of the government bureaucracy decided that it was more efficient to have two factories making shoes: one factory made the left shoe, and one made the right shoe. One factory ran out of raw materials and stopped producing the right shoe. But the other factory had to meet it's quota, so in the end they just packed one shoe per box and sent it out to the stores. The customers were told that this is the way it was supposed to be: what a great idea! after all, many people have different size feet, so this way you get exact fit... Of course, all the shoes were of the left foot variety, but somehow that was overlooked in the explanation...


So, summoning my optimism and good will: I hope the lesson is learned, the QC situation is addressed and corrected, and things get back to good, just as with the Phoenix. Blessings and luck.

Meanwhile, I think it's a great decision to stick the next batch into Alpha, all things considered. Wise move, Danno.

Holy cow! Just for giggles I took one of the soft silicone drip tips that come with the XL's and shoved the small end of an XL center tube in it and stuck that in my adjusted Raven. What a difference. This is what they should be like. Drawing through that tube has doubled the vapor and flavor is much better. You'll feel when it's in right. That restricter cone is tapered so it will find it's spot down there. Just make sure that some pressure is exerted by the silicone drip tip when you put the whole thing in.
Betterlife has to modify these to go back to that center post.

edited to add ...WOW!

edited to add another...WOW!

 

[BonnyC]

Yes, very wise move sending it to Alpha Can't wait to get my hands on it! Especially since I've actually made it work like a charm as it is.

Both carts passed the overnight leaking test, yay! They also passed the lemon ejuice test but haven't had the guts to try lemonade. Lemon tastes like a lemon head candy, lemonade is actually like lemonade and killed the ce5 in Alpha. This is the PP plastic and I think it should be fine. That's what the regular Phoenix BCs are made of, right?

 

[BonnyC]

Can anyone tell me if this item will work with the tank on the Raven?

Replacement Dual Coil Carto for SMOKtech DCT Tank [gv-REPLACEMENTdctXLdualcoilcarto] - $2.95 : GotVapes.com, E-cigarette Supplies - Atomizers Cartomizers Mods Juice and more

Just wanna make sure before I throw one in my cart but I'm placing an order very soon in hopes of getting it shipped today!

Edit: I went ahead and threw it in with my order. It's cheap and if it doesn't fit properly, I can always just get a tank later on.

 

[magentaman]

Mine fit. and I stripped a stallion and it fits. I just need to punch some holes.

Can anyone tell me if this item will work with the tank on the Raven?

Replacement Dual Coil Carto for SMOKtech DCT Tank [gv-REPLACEMENTdctXLdualcoilcarto] - $2.95 : GotVapes.com, E-cigarette Supplies - Atomizers Cartomizers Mods Juice and more

Just wanna make sure before I throw one in my cart but I'm placing an order very soon in hopes of getting it shipped today!

Edit: I went ahead and threw it in with my order. It's cheap and if it doesn't fit properly, I can always just get a tank later on.

 

[mogium]

what kind/size of carto would the 3.5 raven tank. its a shame to waste the tank I thought I heard someone say you could use other carto's in it