Has vaping lost way?

[dripster]

I'm curious: Did you DL your cigs too? I'm not sure how that's even possible, but I understand some people claim they smoked that way.

I suspect I'd already be dead if I had smoked that way though.

Of course I didn't. Going from cigs to 80 watts and ~4.5mg high VG juice on Ni80 fused claptons in the 25mm Troll rda 2 with the air holes 2/3 of the way open didn't make me cough, it actually felt noticeably softer than a cig, not much throat hit nor much warmth, but it also had a pleasant combination of some density and moving texture very unlike just air with a flavor added to it, and the first two hits the exhale went just a tiny little bit wobbly so after that it went totally relaxed, comfortable and even more surprisingly pleasant in fact, to the point of hoping it was going to stay that way because what if it won't and stuff like that.

 

[DeloresRose]

One shoe doesn't fit all, yet, despite that, all of them used the same stuff you had, except only one. Had you told them there exist other ways than starter kits and cigalikes alone, exactly BECAUSE one shoe doesn't fit all, then likely at least some of them could have had an easier time quitting IMO.

I’m talking about three people, two over 50 and one over 70 who switched very easily. The one who is still alive still, 5 years later, is still mtl. I think that’s a very small, unscientific sample, but it worked for her and myself.

Today, I still mtl but more often dl. Mtl imho most closely resembles smoking, and that’s what we needed. Those are the kind of people I am most likely to be asked to help at my age, old smokers looking for something as similar as possible.

So, it’s not more wrong to say I’d advise mtl than for someone else to say they’d only suggest sub ohm. Dl would not have worked for the people who asked me for help. Know your audience and all that jazz.

I never said I wouldn’t talk about other gear, other styles - I do, all the time, show off my collection. And the younger folk love it. The older ones are all about the isticks lol.

I have a few 30 something nieces and nephews who vape, but don’t need any advice from me. A couple are mech users, Which I am not. So you do you, as I always say. They don’t rag on me to be on their team, and we can all appreciate each other’s new shiny stuff.

Whatever keeps them off the smokes.

But if one of the young ‘uns wanted mech advice I’d say, go ask your cousin about that brass tube, he seems pretty happy with it.

Only one of the builds, so we have that in common, and the others are like, that’s too much bother. And I’m the only juice maker in the ranks, so that makes me pretty cool for an old broad, but then I always was the cool aunt.

 

[RigBick]

If you get down to it, pretty much every man made item/chemical/product can potentially cause harm to the environment or population. The Dyson Pure Cool for example, that tells you when the air is potentially harmful, likely contains materials inside like electronics, plastics, filter materials, etc that could be harmful to the enviroment itself. There is very little that is exempt, people just choose what they want to target. Especially if it can get attention or be financially beneficial. Sadly, vaping is controversial and gets attention, and some powerful people can benefit from it's demise, so it is a large target.

on a very recent trip to the hospital via ambulance. I saw a sign posted just outside of the ambulance Bay entrance to the hospital which read : This product- facility contains materials which may be hazardous to your health. This was on my way into the hospital. Who was a large sign as well. I am guessing they are referring to some of the wiring, Electronics, building materials, etc. Perhaps even chemicals or medications contain Within. I just found it odd and wanted to share that. By the way I was there for seven days. Vaped in my room with the door closed. Left my vape with in plain view and charged from the wall outlet. nobody even said a word although I did not do it in front of anyone and requested that everyone knock on the door before entering as I appreciate my privacy. I expected to be asked about it but to my greatest satisfaction was not. It made my week they're much easier.

 

[RigBick]

I think people should try a MTL and DL tank together early on, because honestly one does limit you to larger amounts (usually) of batteries and eliquid, and one also tends to become attached to what one is accustomed to already, early on.

Also, there is a difference between "annoying" and "literally harmful." I was at Costco today, and I find bad parenting extraordinarily ANNOYING like every time it happens I want to go up to the parent or relative and shake it. It's not the noise, either ,if some mom sets a limit with a toddler and it has a fit and the mom holds firm, I am all "GO MAMA!!!" and I have BEEN that mom, and frankly YOUR ears, kind people, matter less to me than letting my toddler grow into whatever "his" version of Alexander the Great was going to be (so glad I didn't have to find out..) But you know, letting the kid hit you in the face, then hitting it back until YOU win? I really.... have to move away.

I put vape in that category. I was at Costco, vaping quietly and very low vapor near a "bad" family and we were BOTH giving each other the stinky-eye, it was a mutual STARE down, as it were.

Fortunately, I was distracted by this 80 year old lady holding her (it looked like a Juul) Gabriel's Trumpet like on the sky and inhaling on it SO LONG it was, well I was spell bound and she let out a veritable CLOUD of "I'm an old lady, I can do as I please." I had to run over and congratulate her, both on her lung capacity, and her fortitude in the face of societal disapproval.

Vaping is like that. There has been NO definitive proof that vaping is harmful to bystanders, and to those who are complaining about "vague headaches" and stuff, well I say, "Lady, that might work on your husband, but it doesn't work on me."

She may or may NOT summon management, but I think (apart from restaurants because, well food and odor do mesh) we should be old lady Gabriel trumpet and vape long and vape proud.

AND there is no way my waiting to be told politely by management not to vape somewhere is hurting someone and the fact is I KNOW it isn't but the point for me is:

Lots of things can be annoying (including vaping) but I am going to do them, and try to be tactful but if *I* have to be perfect well so do you, so if they evil family had attacked my vape, I would have attacked their parenting.

Because the standard should be "is it harmful" not "is it annoying you." And, vaping was doomed from the moment it achieved success, so we might as well still have the fun we can have in Public, before we have to go all dark arts on things. At which point I will have slightly more dangerous fun, but vaping was doomed the moment Society (at least in the US) decided that it was "too effective and fun" a harm reduction method. They convince the "sheep" by studies, but it was not "complaints by the general public" that sealed the deal, as most people will complain about many things but governments getting threatened and it is the fault of ZERO members of the vaping community.

Anna

Well said Anna. May the Force be with you.

 

[DaveP]

I've vaped MTL for most of my vaping life. It's just a way to recreate the way I smoked cigarettes. Lately, I've developed a habit of sometimes doing the slipstream thing sometimes with my Kayfun. For those asking, "what is that?", it's where you put your lips loosely on the drip tip and inhale part vape and part room air at the same time direct to your lungs. I don't know why I started doing that, but I do it mostly when my 10W vape is turned down to about 8.5W for stealth vaping. In a mall store or anywhere I want to be discrete it's a good way to inhale and hold it before exhaling to minimize the exhale and still get the nic.

Although I haven't experienced anything but better health from vaping I often wonder what the long term effect of vaping might be. There's articles about PG effects on human health. For those interested in the study the best article I've found is below.

Propylene Glycol in E-Cigarettes – Is PG Dangerous to Inhale?

 

[Walee]

I guess I don't know what vapings "way" is, so I don't know if it lost it or no. I know it trends. Started out with small clouds per available equipment. Moved to much larger clouds. Not it seems to be on it's way back to smaller clouds. I talk to younger folks, 20's to 30's and they now talk about "stupid" large clouds and "stupid" large devices. I guess peer pressure has an effect. That's pretty much how the herd meanders through the desert regardless of issue. Happens pretty quickly too. I stopped into my favorite B&M and my young friend is there blowing a massive could. Stopped in a couple months later and he has a pod and only stupid knuckle dragging people blow big clouds. All fine with me. I'm old. I get an inherent pass from those folks and am free to do whatever. Love that about them. As far as recommending a certain style of vape for new vapers, I don't. I explain what I know about vaping all styles and the rest is up to them. They all want to spend ten bucks and get the perfect device first purchase while they spend three hundred dollars a month on analogs. That simply doesn't make a damn bit of sense to me and I simply state that they will probably have to try a few things. I refuse to become a smoke-a-nazi and shove my lance up every smokers rear end insisting they vape. To me vaping is a program of attraction, not promotion. If they ask, I will talk about it. Having said all that, some of us could be left behind. No idea how all this will pan out but if the vast majority wants small, less conspicuous vape equipment, that is what will be manufactured. There are a ton of things that went away for me because I was in a minority. Just is.

 

[ajbr]

I strongly advise against the assertion that MTL is the best way to start vaping. MTL, including sub-ohm MTL, in the vast majority of cases will lead to dual use, which, if it can be possible to avoid, should be avoided because it greatly increases the potential risk of instant failure or eventually relapsing when trying to use vaping as a smoking cessation tool, and, if I had started vaping by choosing an MTL setup, right now I would still be smoking cigarettes because MTL just isn't a satisfying vape.

I disagree. I loved and enjoyed smoking very much but was well aware of the health risks associated with smoking. I tried the patch, gum and drugs but nothing worked (as a matter of fact the more nicotine gum I chewed the stronger my desire to smoke increased). These methods helped with the nicotine dependance but I missed the hand to mouth associated with cigarettes. I was able to quit with e cigarettes because they very closely mimicked the act of smoking. I have not had a cigarette in eight years and have NO desire to "try" one. Being the type of person that I am, I have tried sub ohm and DL vaping but do not find it as satisfying as MTL. I have converted some people to vaping and all but one continues to vape MTL. In conclusion, I wanted something that emulated smoking as closely as possible to quit because I enjoyed smoking so much. I believe that once you have committed to vaping your desire to smoke cigarettes will pass. However, if DL or any other type of vaping is more satisfying to an individual and gets you off cigs, go for it. Different strokes for different folks!

Artie

 

[tara81]

I don't DTL for the clouds I do it for the FLAVORRRRRRRRRRRR omg the flavor on this horizon falcon mesh coil Yummmmmmmmmm (I used to mtl vape for years )

 

[Mowgli]

I tried an Njoy because a hiking buddy explained that he quit smoking using that toy looking cigalike (Green Smoke) he was puffing on. 3 months without a ..... NS? NS. The NJoy was OK. The wife thought so too so I spent a couple of cartons' worth of $$ on GS kits for each of us. I cut down to 3-5 smokes a day using a cigalike kit. I knew there must be better so I visited the closest vape shop. I quit that day with a vivi nova on vv ego. MtL. I always vaped as strong is it could go (without burning) and always wanted a stronger/denser/tastier vape. ViviNova->Protank/Evod->Nautilus->SubTankMini->Arctic->Mutank->Aromamizer & Shazam! that's exactly what I was looking for.
I still vape predominantly on Mizer V2's and Mizer Supremes and I've tried some others but found my niche about 2.5 years ago.

I quit smoking using MtL but wasn't satisfied until I found DL using dual coil RTA Mizers. I don't know if I would have quit if DL was all that was available 5 years ago but that medium strength DL (~50W) is what I was seeking for over 2 years.

I started off wanting something that mimicked smoking. I quickly changed to wanting to vape the least smoke-like as available. I originally wanted a stick that tasted like a cig but realized after trying other flavors that though I had thought I liked tobacco flavor I was just used to it. I'm a candy & desert loving adult.

I have friends that couldn't quit on MtL and weren't successful until they got a good DL rig. Other friends & my Mrs. quit by using MtL and stay satisfied MtL vapers.
Some friends that are former DL vapers now just Juul & pod.

I think the 3 main factors for being successful quitters are 1. Truly wanting to quit 2. committing to find what works and 3. finding something satisfying to them.

 

[dripster]

Just because vaping at 140 watts helped you to quit smoking does not make it the best way to quit for.... majority of people... even those that vastly prefer dtl...be it long time ago or at present day.

By the time I bumped it to 140 watts I had already been being smoke-free for almost a whole month so not sure what you must be getting at here. DTL at 80 watts on a pair of Ni80 handmade fused claptons in the 25mm Troll RDA 2 taking short, medium-fast puffs can hardly be called cloud chasing you know...

I do both DTL and MTL and now I am getting satisfying vape from both but vastly prefer loose MTL or restricted DL... anything over 30 watts make vaping for me very unsatisfying.

Long slow drags make me turn green and purple, like trying to hold my breath for too long, and, right now anything too far below 90 watts makes vaping very unsatisfying for me, but 80 watts during my first vaping week was fine because that was my first vaping week so was still learning to adapt to the difference of vaping compared to smoking (and trying to not scorch my wick in the process of course).

It looks you know only those that use exclusivelly RDAs

No, only a few people I know are using exclusively RDAs, but those who aren't using any RDAs, not even occasionally that is, are generally not very talkative about vaping nor really are very open to suggestions of any kind, as they tend to, in most cases anyway, come across almost as if they are living their vaping life inside a soap bubble more or less so to speak, auto pilot, victims of circumstance just follow the herd kind of philosophy. I myself am the only person I know who has been using exclusively RDAs for his entire vaping life.

(are you member of some kind cloud chasing club?)

No, the "club" that I am in isn't really a club, but those who are "members" (myself included) are all flavor chasers, and, those who have been in it for more than just a couple of years are all saying they moved from MTL to DTL because DTL is what gives them better flavor and a more satisfying vape experience. All the others pretty much unanimously agree with them, after having given MTL at least a very reasonable try.

and for satisfying vape need over 80 watt... so more than half all forum members here who vape drop in coils atties and RTAs buy their tanks just to suffer... coz they like suffering...

I never said that. Everyone who vapes must legally be old enough to be capable to figure out for themselves what is the ideal wattage and vaping style for them, i.e. I'm the exact opposite to those trying to hold the hands of new vapers who might learn too much if they [these newcomers] wander too far off of the holiest of the holy (read: low wattage) track.

Sorry but I am not getting what you are saying... when I quit smoking the biggest struggle for me was getting satisfying vape from my Smok V8 Baby Beast I won that battle by purchasing Nautilus2 and vaping at 18 watts instead 30...

I never quit smoking, but rather, I stopped smoking the same way a sack of concrete stops moving the moment it hits the ground below it. For me, anything by Smok is the antithesis of moving more towards having great flavor so, no offense, but it really isn't any wonder that you aren't getting what I'm trying to say.

If that is not possible in any way it is not possible in your way... I believe it is possible... with the right kind of vape... not necesarily the same you like... what works for you and all vaping people you know...do not have to work the same for me and all vaping people I know.

I never said it isn't possible in any way. Instead, I said in the vast majority of cases it isn't, and, too much hostility towards (and too big misconceptions related to) the higher range of watts is only holding the possibility back.

I did not vaped "in the past" and I started with DTL... just 8 months ago... if it not for MTL I would be still smoking cigarettes... see my signature... I am not dual user and I am enjoying vaping without need of RDA or 140 watts puffs... and I bet I am not in minority on this forum.

Part of the reason why you're not a minority is because MTL is the oldest vaping style so it is only logical the fact that the force of old habit brings short-sightedness to the table.

 

[dripster]

I’m talking about three people, two over 50 and one over 70 who switched very easily. The one who is still alive still, 5 years later, is still mtl. I think that’s a very small, unscientific sample, but it worked for her and myself.

Today, I still mtl but more often dl. Mtl imho most closely resembles smoking, and that’s what we needed. Those are the kind of people I am most likely to be asked to help at my age, old smokers looking for something as similar as possible.

So, it’s not more wrong to say I’d advise mtl than for someone else to say they’d only suggest sub ohm. Dl would not have worked for the people who asked me for help. Know your audience and all that jazz.

I never said I wouldn’t talk about other gear, other styles - I do, all the time, show off my collection. And the younger folk love it. The older ones are all about the isticks lol.

I have a few 30 something nieces and nephews who vape, but don’t need any advice from me. A couple are mech users, Which I am not. So you do you, as I always say. They don’t rag on me to be on their team, and we can all appreciate each other’s new shiny stuff.

Whatever keeps them off the smokes.

But if one of the young ‘uns wanted mech advice I’d say, go ask your cousin about that brass tube, he seems pretty happy with it.

Only one of the builds, so we have that in common, and the others are like, that’s too much bother. And I’m the only juice maker in the ranks, so that makes me pretty cool for an old broad, but then I always was the cool aunt.

Because vaping is not the same as smoking, in the vast majority of cases trying to mimic smoking is going to yield unsatisfactory results. A better strategy to start is by simply accepting the fact vaping is extremely very different from smoking so basically, more often than not, the "that's too much to bother" part is largely contributing to giving new vapers that not-so-very-satisfying vape experience that's causing them to light up another cigarette simply because the latter is more satisfying to them.

 

[dripster]

I disagree. I loved and enjoyed smoking very much but was well aware of the health risks associated with smoking. I tried the patch, gum and drugs but nothing worked (as a matter of fact the more nicotine gum I chewed the stronger my desire to smoke increased). These methods helped with the nicotine dependance but I missed the hand to mouth associated with cigarettes. I was able to quit with e cigarettes because they very closely mimicked the act of smoking. I have not had a cigarette in eight years and have NO desire to "try" one. Being the type of person that I am, I have tried sub ohm and DL vaping but do not find it as satisfying as MTL. I have converted some people to vaping and all but one continues to vape MTL. In conclusion, I wanted something that emulated smoking as closely as possible to quit because I enjoyed smoking so much. I believe that once you have committed to vaping your desire to smoke cigarettes will pass. However, if DL or any other type of vaping is more satisfying to an individual and gets you off cigs, go for it. Different strokes for different folks!

Artie

Once you have committed to vaping your desire to smoke cigarettes will pass, but pushing the newcomers towards MTL as opposed to pushing them towards real discovery of that which they themselves truly prefer, is by definition a recipe to losing that same commitment. To push them towards MTL is to ignore "different strokes for different folks", as it is the superlative of hypocrisy.

 

[Asbestos4004]

Once you have committed to vaping your desire to smoke cigarettes will pass, but pushing the newcomers towards MTL as opposed to pushing them towards real discovery of that which they themselves truly prefer, is by definition a recipe to losing that same commitment. To push them towards MTL is to ignore "different strokes for different folks", as it is the superlative of hypocrisy.

So, you went from smoking to rdas with handmade claptons at 80 watts and successfully quit smoking.... correct?

 

[dripster]

So, you went from smoking to rdas with handmade claptons at 80 watts and successfully quit smoking.... correct?

Incorrect three times in just a single sentence to show how vaping is busy losing its way. Went from smoking to an RDA, not RDAs, with handmade fused claptons, not claptons, at 80 watts and successfully stopped, not quit, smoking.

 

[DeloresRose]

Once you have committed to vaping your desire to smoke cigarettes will pass, but pushing the newcomers towards MTL as opposed to pushing them towards real discovery of that which they themselves truly prefer, is by definition a recipe to losing that same commitment. To push them towards MTL is to ignore "different strokes for different folks", as it is the superlative of hypocrisy.

Who said I pushed? Who said, ever, that I dissuaded anyone from trying other types of gear? That I admonished the use of any other vape style? Sounds to me like you are the one who has to push your ideals into others.

Like, you’re not really vaping right if you’re not doing it my way.

I think I already said if there’s a set up I’m not familiar with, I’d send someone to talk to someone else who knows more about it than I do, so they can get first hand experience and better advice. I mean, I don’t mech, and I don’t squonk, but if someone wants to try either to help get off the smokes, I’m for it. It’s just that I can’t advise.

Some of us don’t have a problem saying “I don’t know” because the deal is, getting help from someone who does know is better than being misinformed and mislead.

If you’ve never used a pod or a 1.8 ohm drop in and a 20w internal mod, you have zero knowledge about those and cannot properly inform anyone.

Now, I do know about making juice and coils. If asked to help someone get started with those I’m ready and willing. But I’d never push it. I do my way. Not everyone wants to walk my path. It’s a great disservice to others for me to act as though I’m somehow smarter or better because I have more nic in the freezer, or a more expensive mod in rotation, or find I’m too cool for kanthal or... whatever. Just because I know what floats my boat does not give me license to tell others, oh, you’ll never quit if you don’t quit my way.

 

[Asbestos4004]

Incorrect three times in just a single sentence to show how vaping is busy losing its way. Went from smoking to an RDA, not RDAs, with handmade fused claptons, not claptons, at 80 watts and successfully stopped, not quit, smoking.

Yeah...ok, whatever....

What's wrong with simply stating what worked for you? You seem to enjoy bashing every means of vaping that doesn't mimic yours. You troll threads dedicated to rtas and derail the topic to push your narrow minded agenda. Now, you're upset that we still suggest a style of vaping that has successfully gotten a ton of people off cigarettes. It's just weird.

Just an FYI, your style of vaping is a byproduct of rebels taking smoking cessation devices and hotrodding them. You're basically suggesting people learn to drive in a top fuel dragster because it's more advanced than a Toyota Corolla. Personally, I'm extremely grateful for the folks that pushed the limits in vaping. I stay off smoking with DL gear....restricted DL, but DL just the same. I certainly wouldn't have tried vaping twice if I tried to start with what I use today. I think the vast majority of reformed smokers would agree.

So, the high watt, big cloud stuff isn't a better way to get off cigarettes. It's an option to stay off cigarettes.

 

[dripster]

Who said I pushed? Who said, ever, that I dissuaded anyone from trying other types of gear? That I admonished the use of any other vape style? Sounds to me like you are the one who has to push your ideals into others.

Like, you’re not really vaping right if you’re not doing it my way.

I think I already said if there’s a set up I’m not familiar with, I’d send someone to talk to someone else who knows more about it than I do, so they can get first hand experience and better advice. I mean, I don’t mech, and I don’t squonk, but if someone wants to try either to help get off the smokes, I’m for it. It’s just that I can’t advise.

Some of us don’t have a problem saying “I don’t know” because the deal is, getting help from someone who does know is better than being misinformed and mislead.

If you’ve never used a pod or a 1.8 ohm drop in and a 20w internal mod, you have zero knowledge about those and cannot properly inform anyone.

Now, I do know about making juice and coils. If asked to help someone get started with those I’m ready and willing. But I’d never push it. I do my way. Not everyone wants to walk my path. It’s a great disservice to others for me to act as though I’m somehow smarter or better because I have more nic in the freezer, or a more expensive mod in rotation, or find I’m too cool for kanthal or... whatever. Just because I know what floats my boat does not give me license to tell others, oh, you’ll never quit if you don’t quit my way.

Read the thread. I strongly advised against recommending MTL to those wanting to come off cigarettes:
Has vaping lost way?
The reason why I strongly advise against it is because recommending MTL to those wanting to come off cigarettes is, by definition, the same exact thing as pushing MTL. So it would appear to me that you and several others here are either heavily twisting my words or haven't got a clue what pushing really means.

 

[DeloresRose]

Read the thread. I strongly advised against recommending MTL to those wanting to come off cigarettes:
Has vaping lost way?
The reason why I strongly advise against it because recommending MTL to those wanting to come off cigarettes is, by definition, the same exact thing as pushing MTL. So it would appear to me that you and several others here are either heavily twisting my words or haven't got a clue what pushing really means.

Dude, whatever. I think you meant to call Dial-an-argument. You got the wrong number.

 

[dripster]

IMO vaping lost way because those who already admitted that they quit smoking at the time when MTL was the only thing available, which means that they had no way to compare ANYTHING outside of MTL as far as quitting smoking goes, are trying to force their opinions on others about EVERYTHING as far as quitting smoking goes.

 

[Asbestos4004]

IMO vaping lost way because those who already admitted that they quit smoking at the time when MTL was the only thing available, which means that they had no way to compare ANYTHING outside of MTL as far as quitting smoking goes, are trying to force their opinions on others about EVERYTHING as far as quitting smoking goes.

LOL..... It's pretty common practice to pass on advice based on experience of whats works. You sir, are a prime example of how vaping has actually lost it's way. It once was grown ups helping other grown ups stop smoking and finding what works. Now it's full of opinionated, narrow minded, uneducated experts knocking what they know nothing about. Hopefully, the new members will be wise enough to ignore your ridiculous advice.