Yep, certainly helps put things in perspective in the grand scheme of things
Wow that was cool.
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Wow that was cool.
I would also be curious to know what kind of threat or fines they are threatening our vendors with. Would be nice to see what kind of legal recourse one could look into as a rebuttal. I wonder if they dare quote some sort of law stating anything agaisnt being able to sell the product or something.
I never actually tried JC ... but i know they had quote the following. Sad to see such a well appreciated vendor shut down due to this non sense from HC.
Talk about putting blinders on ... blind leading the blind i tell ya ...
I find in interesting that HC shuts down vendors, yet e-cigarettes are used in some rehab places for drug & alcohol abuse.
The older I get the less I understand.
Had I not found e cigs, the day would have come that cigarettes would have caused my death.
I will put that in my tank &
it
The older I get the less I understand.
Had I not found e cigs, the day would have come that cigarettes would have caused my death.
I will put that in my tank &
it
James explained on the show that he got shut down as a supplier, not a vendor. He also said the most they can do to a supplier is send them letters asking them to please stop. Just clearing up any confusion.
I'm sure glad HC is keeping us all safe by putting the boots to E Liquid and E Liquid suppliers. They really do care about our health and well being. Nic and PG = irritants. It's good to know there are much safer HC approved options to turn to like cigarettes! There must not be any irritants in them cause HC allows them to be sold everywhere! It's great that our government helps us make these important decisions, I was under the understanding cigarettes had thousands of cancer causing chemicals in them 
I'm gonna get off the vaping and run out and grab myself a couple of cartons of cigarettes and hopefully undo the damage vaping has done to my body
(Sorry when I get irritated the "Sarcasm Fairy" takes over my brain)
If HC really gave a .... about our health - Cigarettes would not be aproved for sale!
It's great that our government helps us make these important decisions, I was under the understanding cigarettes had thousands of cancer causing chemicals in them I'm gonna get off the vaping and run out and grab myself a couple of cartons of cigarettes and hopefully undo the damage vaping has done to my body (Sorry when I get irritated the "Sarcasm Fairy" takes over my brain)
If HC really gave a .... about our health - Cigarettes would not be aproved for sale!
That's okay. We all like sarcasm.
There are three reasons that they are still being sold:
1. Big Tobacco
2. Big tobacco taxes
3. Profit!
E-cigarettes are a clear and present threat to Big Tobacco and Big Tobacco is beginning to see that. So does HC, and if people stop smoking because of E-cigarettes, all that wonderful big tobacco tax starts to go away. So what does HC do? Try and regulate nicotine-bearing E-cigarettes as drug delivery devices (just as the FDA tried and failed to do in the US). However, there is no way they'll be able to stand on that mandate because E-cigarettes without nicotine are already making serious inroads in the nation's gas stations, drug and variety stores. Therefore the device itself can't be called a drug delivery device if it isn't delivering a drug. So that leaves E-liquid, which is going to be HC's last stand. They do have a case for that, however weak and soggy, but because it is a drug that is already legally sold as a tobacco product, and they can't go calling cigarettes drug delivery devices, there too they have a precedent that works against them.
HC has power and money. However I would like to believe that in the end they have no foundation upon which to stand and ultimately ECTA will be successful in their lobby of becoming a regulatory and standards group that will properly monitor and ensure the quality of the product that is sold in this country.
It's just a question of when.
I fully agree it's all about profits for tobacco companies and pharam companies. It's the only viable reason as I've noticed in the last few weeks the disposable no-nic variety are popping up all over the place at gas stations and stores. First off, not green at all given the battery has no charger even thus disposable. Second, obviously HC isn't overly concerned with PG or VG if they are fine with the no-nic variety. As far as nic content goes and "dosage" issues etc....what is stopping someone from eating the whole pack of nicorette gum at once? Or sucking on four inhalers at once?
That's okay. We all like sarcasm.
There are three reasons that they are still being sold:
1. Big Tobacco
2. Big tobacco taxes
3. Profit!
E-cigarettes are a clear and present threat to Big Tobacco and Big Tobacco is beginning to see that. So does HC, and if people stop smoking because of E-cigarettes, all that wonderful big tobacco tax starts to go away. So what does HC do? Try and regulate nicotine-bearing E-cigarettes as drug delivery devices (just as the FDA tried and failed to do in the US). However, there is no way they'll be able to stand on that mandate because E-cigarettes without nicotine are already making serious inroads in the nation's gas stations, drug and variety stores. Therefore the device itself can't be called a drug delivery device if it isn't delivering a drug. So that leaves E-liquid, which is going to be HC's last stand. They do have a case for that, however weak and soggy, but because it is a drug that is already legally sold as a tobacco product, and they can't go calling cigarettes drug delivery devices, there too they have a precedent that works against them.
HC has power and money. However I would like to believe that in the end they have no foundation upon which to stand and ultimately ECTA will be successful in their lobby of becoming a regulatory and standards group that will properly monitor and ensure the quality of the product that is sold in this country.
It's just a question of when.
Thats only partially true, one of the main reason why cigarettes are still legal for sales is because the government can't touch it, remember when happened in the states during prohibition? Same kind of thing would happen if the government banned cigarettes, maybe even worst, all the smokers out there would be out for blood and cause riots and you'd have a who underground selling cigarettes lol. I sure as hell would be in a riot and getting cigs from anywhere I can if I didn't have e-cigs.
I actually don't believe HC has 'banned' nicotine ejuices because of influence from big tobacco. Smoking related illness costs the government (and in turn, HC) an obscene amount of money. A recent empirical article I read a few months back found that the government will spend over $15 for each pack of cigarettes sold on smoking related illnesses and other consequences of smoking (more sickdays, greater likelihood of collecting disability, etc.). Yes, the government taxes the crap out of cigs, but they don't even begin to break even when you consider the burden the average long term smoker will put on the system. Plus, HC has notoriously funded the majority of aggressive anti-smoking initiatives.
I think the real issue for HC is the fact that for a psychotropic substance, nicotine is incredibly toxic. Mg for Mg it is more toxic than arsenic, and a 30ml bottle of ejuice that gets improperly ingested or handled can easily kill a child (or adult for that matter). Also, big tobacco (and other lobbyists) have much greater influence in US policy making, so it would seem unlikely that Big tobacco would have the influence to 'ban' ecigs in Canada but not in the US. Don't get me wrong, I oppose the ban and I am also opposed to HC taxing or regulating the ecig industry should it become 'unbanned' in the future, but I think blaming 'big tobacco' for the ban blurs the real issues.
just my opinion
I think the real issue for HC is the fact that for a psychotropic substance, nicotine is incredibly toxic. Mg for Mg it is more toxic than arsenic, and a 30ml bottle of ejuice that gets improperly ingested or handled can easily kill a child (or adult for that matter). Also, big tobacco (and other lobbyists) have much greater influence in US policy making, so it would seem unlikely that Big tobacco would have the influence to 'ban' ecigs in Canada but not in the US. Don't get me wrong, I oppose the ban and I am also opposed to HC taxing or regulating the ecig industry should it become 'unbanned' in the future, but I think blaming 'big tobacco' for the ban blurs the real issues.
just my opinion
False. Check your facts before you scare anyone else with erroneous information.
Not to discount this by any means -- nicotine is an incredibly deadly poison in concentration -- but there are tons of things that can kill a child if ingested, many of which are often kept within reach of a child. Granted, most of them don't smell yummy. Just the same this is why I think that one of the regulations ECTA will be enforcing on member vendors is that, like most other toxic substances sold, all juice is to be supplied supplied in childproof bottles with either snap ring or heat shrink seals. Beyond that, and also like other toxic substances, it would be the responsibility of the parent to keep it away from their children.
Because of maybes as usual.
All these ministers we have set up are basically faceless mealy mouthed Tzars clapping and jumping through hoops for whoever throws them the biggest fish. They've amended themselves into these positions where there's very little us peons can do to shake them, they have no face to despise or neck to hang, there just big amorphous blobs of ineptitude.
The pigs are wearing human clothing so to speak.
Face it our want for choice and option makes us renegades, we can fight this battle, might even win for the next few years, but in this system the common good and profit win out vs the individual desire in the end.
Best put your resources in to helping those closest to you and those you can trust, it'll pay out in spades. Let the worms on the hill feast on the caracasses of other martyrs.
Heroes only exist in 3 places, graveyards, prison cells and storybooks.
That said vape strong every cigarette you don't smoke pays those who despise us less.
All these ministers we have set up are basically faceless mealy mouthed Tzars clapping and jumping through hoops for whoever throws them the biggest fish. They've amended themselves into these positions where there's very little us peons can do to shake them, they have no face to despise or neck to hang, there just big amorphous blobs of ineptitude.
The pigs are wearing human clothing so to speak.
Face it our want for choice and option makes us renegades, we can fight this battle, might even win for the next few years, but in this system the common good and profit win out vs the individual desire in the end.
Best put your resources in to helping those closest to you and those you can trust, it'll pay out in spades. Let the worms on the hill feast on the caracasses of other martyrs.
Heroes only exist in 3 places, graveyards, prison cells and storybooks.
That said vape strong every cigarette you don't smoke pays those who despise us less.
Holy well written!
You should become a journalist. No joke. Go apply to your local newspaper with a pro-vaping article. You just might get a job offer.
I agree 100% with everything you just said.
How is this erroneous information? the LD50 of nicotine is 1.0mg/kg. light ejuice containts ~11mg/ml, therefore 11*30 =330 mg of nicotine per 30 ml bottle. For children, "the mean lethal dose is considered to be about 10mg of nicotine".
Nicotine (PIM)
I'm not trying to scare anyone. We're all adults, and I was just speaking candidly about the pertinent issues regarding the HC ban.
The critical dosage is considered 1 mg (concentrated) per kg. So if you weigh 60 kg - than you would need to spill a full 60mg dose onto your skin to acheive lethal toxicity.
Toxicity can be achieved by smoking a cigarette in combination with consuming nicorette gum at the same time and having more than one nicotine patch on your body.
Also - eating a large number of nicorette gum pieces at the same time can lead to toxicity - as can plastering yourself with nicotine patches.
There is (to my knowledge) 1 case of death by patch.
There are (to my knowledge) no cases of death caused by eliquid spillage. This could change, of course, if people continue to use wholesale concentrations without any precautions.
In children, nicotine poisoning and potential lethal toxicity is a serious concern with cigarettes (small kids have been known to eat those... yuk), patches, gum, losenges and inhalers. Of course that concern is transfered to eliquid.
Caution should be taken with any potentially harmful substance when children are around.
If you have small children and you care about their health and safety - take precautions with EVERYTHING. Two year olds like putting things in their mouths - regardless of taste.
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My info was wrong. You are right and I would like to withdraw my erroneous comment.
However, I continue to fight scaremongering. Nicotine lozenges can contain 4mg of nicotine each, plus they look like candy and are available from the supermarket. Those 72 packs are enough to take out a kindergarten class.
Run to the hills Maw Barker!
Of course, this is very true. And I personally think the ejuice nicotine issue is of minimal concern - cancer from smoking will undoubtedly kill more in one day than nicotine toxicity from spills/accidental consumption will kill in 10 years. The only reason I raised the toxicity issue was to illustrate HC's concerns which have fueled their attack on the ecig industry. I just think the whole 'influenced by big tobacco' argument does not make much sense and blurs the real issues
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HC's concerns have absolutely nothing to do with safety or with big tobacco.
The only "big tobacco" in Canada is the federal government - who derive an almost sick sum of money daily from tobacco sales here (the feds make more on a pack of tobacco than the company who produces that pack). HC has and continues to sue Canadian tobbacco companies on a number of occasions though - so I don't think there is much love going on there.
As for safety - this is very obviously NOT a concern. Not at all. HC (at the political level) appears to following a directive from the World Health Organization - the same directive that have prevented ecigs from gaining ground in most countries in the world - and caused everything from illegal border seizures, unethical and illegal threats and intimidations to businesses and a lack of any transparent developments in the safety of products. It's not restricted to Canada. The FDA were hauled into court over it in the US (and the FDA lost).
Nicotine safety in eliquid is no different from that of any other product containing nicotine. Nor from any other product where safety can be an issue. Safety measures can be implemented, regulated, overseen. That's what happens with anything else on the market.
No - this is all political.
My money is on influences from BP.
Regardless of the reason - a governmental health body is not put in place to manipulate markets or interfere with freedoms and rights to choose. They are put in place to ensure that dangerous products are restricted through regulation and handled properly and monitored. And when a product is obviously dangerous enough to remove entirely - that it is removed.
Our governmental health body has decided instead to target vitamins, natural health products and ecigs - while dangerous and even deadly pharmaceuticals take their place.
I believe in the political process - I do. I also believe that transparency and ethics need to be reintroduced into that process.
How odd. I recall a British study with the opposite conclusion. Because smokers have a shorter life expectancy, they are ultimately less of a drain on the government's coffers. It's all those healthy non-smoking folk living long lives and collecting pensions that has them worried. Lung cancer is a very short story.
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