Health Canada getting into Vaping.....?

[tygertyger]

To be fair we assume that vaping is safe but there really is no concluding and proven research that it is. I don't agree with it being banned but I do agree with the fact that more research is needed before it can be endorsed by any large organisation. Champix may have a lot of side effects but at least they are well known and individuals can make the choice to take it and truly be informed. At this point the safety of vaping is mostly anecdotal.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but I'm also not seeking endorsement.... just the freedom to purchase supplies and not worry about the suppliers getting hassled. Shellfish, and peanuts HAVE been proven to be fatal for many people, but I don't see them banned from the shelves. The ingredients in our juices are largely benign, and while not enough research has been done on the combinations as a whole, we know that the ingredients are unlikely to cause serious harm. Thus, I'm very frustrated. To me, it's a case of government governing where they are neither needed nor wanted. I'm personally satisfied that vaping is safer than smoking. We know smoking kills, yet the products are legal. *facepalm*..... I could go on in circles forever with this, and I'm sure the forums are littered with posts saying it more eloquently, so I'll just stop...... here.... let me make it simpler. It's about burden of proof. It's nigh impossible to test anything (drugs included) so thoroughly as to know, in every situation, that it is safe. Yet drugs make it to market. No one has yet proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that vaping isn't harmful..... but let's shift the burden of proof! Prove to me that it IS terribly harmful, and then I'll support the current bans!

 

[chagrin]

To be fair we assume that vaping is safe but there really is no concluding and proven research that it is. I don't agree with it being banned but I do agree with the fact that more research is needed before it can be endorsed by any large organisation. Champix may have a lot of side effects but at least they are well known and individuals can make the choice to take it and truly be informed. At this point the safety of vaping is mostly anecdotal.

Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2

There is more than anecdotal information about vaping, but I do agree that more research is needed.

Another interesting point is that everything aside from nicotine in e-cigarettes is completely unregulated.

 

[Starrlamia]

My point was that Champix isn't necessarily a bad way to quit nor is it necessarily more harmful since we don't have the complete information on affects of vaping.

Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2

 

[Qcaj]

I agree with you, Starrlamia. At this point I'm choosing the unknown dangers of vaping over the known dangers of smoking, but I really can't fault anyone who has chosen to go the route of Champix, NRTs, or heck even continuing to smoke.

I made it sound silly in my last post, but when I saw the side effects of Champix (after filling the scrip) I chose not to go that route. I'm actually quite disappointed, so much so that I've since changed to a different doc at the clinic. I have documented mental illness on both sides of the family, and am should never have had it prescribed at all. I'm incredibly happy for those who have had it work for them. After all, we all have the same goals of being healthier and less stinky, right?

 

[Starrlamia]

I have mental illness lol but chose to try it anyway, just wish it worked the second time. In any case I agree it shouldn't be handed out like candy, every drug should be thoroughly discussed. I am all about informed choice.

Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2

 

[tygertyger]

My point was that Champix isn't necessarily a bad way to quit nor is it necessarily more harmful since we don't have the complete information on affects of vaping.

Sorry, but I have to respectfully disagree.

Milder side effects of Champix are listed to include: abdominal pain, appetite changes, changes in taste, constipation, dizziness, drowsiness, dry mouth, flatulence (passing gas), gingivitis, headache, heartburn, nausea, rash, sleep disturbance (difficulty sleeping or abnormal dreams), unusual tiredness or weakness, vomiting....

Now I'll admit, there's some on that list that I've heard associated with vaping, heck! I've even experienced some. Dizziness the first time I chain vaped my 24mg. Dry mouth. Heartburn (mild) from some juices. And right now, I'm still suffering some of the worst insomnia I've ever experienced! But as I say, these aren't the ones that concerned me..... when we get farther down the list to weakness and vomiting though, I start to grow concerned.... and then there's the scarier ones:

changes in behaviour, changes in mood, depression, thinking about harming self or others

Behaviour is too vague to discuss. Mood is also nebulous-- a kazillion things can do that. But depression is worrisome, and I've never heard any vaper talk about that.... they're generally too euphoric about the analogs they've avoided.

I've also read of experts linking Champix to blackouts.... now we're getting into dangerous territory.

But never, anywhere have I heard vaping associated with thoughts of harming self or others. Yet Champix seems plagued by carefully hushed concerns and reports of the same. In 5 years, there have been 24 suicides in Canada of Champix users that while there is no proof positive it was the drug, there is enough suspicion to warrant serious attention. Not the finest news source, but some interesting info here:
Health Canada tight-lipped on Champix suicides - thestar.com

I realize it's helped some people. I'm sincerely happy for them. But if vaping can't currently be ruled ok with respect to unknown risks, then I don't in any way understand how Champix can be ruled ok with concerns like this hanging over its head.

Especially, when statistically, it's not even moderately effective! Dr. Curt Furberg, professor of public health sciences at Wake Forest Baptist Medical Center, states that "A year after people start taking the drug, only 10 percent of people are off cigarettes."

In light of all that, I don't need exhaustive studies to know which "quitting strategy" I'll be using and recommending to my loved ones....

 

[Starrlamia]

It's unlikely that vaping has any serious affect but at this point we can't make a link between vaping and something like suicidal ideation because quite simply the research doesn't exist and most people wouldn't make the connection (not saying that it's likely lol). Also I don't think that the effectiveness of a smoking cessation product can be judged based on a treatment a year down the line when most people won't be taking it anymore, at that point it is irrelevant how they quit.

My point is informed choice, most people aren't willing to take the risk with a product that could potentially be harmful and hasn't been proven safe, and that is their informed choice, knowing the facts and making a decision based on those and the individual circumstances.

Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2

 

[tygertyger]

I just reread my long-winded post, and I wanted to make sure you understand that I mean NO disrespect to anyone on this thread. It's more of a ".... out HC, so we can do the same" attitude.

If HC trusts me to pull on my "big-girl pants" and make an informed decision about Champix, weighing both known and unknown risks.... then I would just appreciate if they would do the same where vaping is concerned. That's all.

 

[Starrlamia]

I totally agree!

Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2

 

[DemonCleaner]

Sweet! Good for you, Projectguy! And they'll tell two friends, and they'll tell two friends, and so on, and so on, and so on....

Wayne's world reference. Nice. Pop culture is fun.

Regarding project guys post about 60% of aboriginal people smoking...
Would this have to do with the extreme low cost of cigarettes on reservations?

 

[recidivus]

I'd imagine it would have to do with costs and (general) wage gap. I'm no scientist, but from my personal experience on both sides of the income fence, smoking is much more prevalent among people who have lower incomes.

 

[Qcaj]

Regarding project guys post about 60% of aboriginal people smoking...
Would this have to do with the extreme low cost of cigarettes on reservations?

I don't think so, though that may be a part of it. My take is...

As far as thing go, smoking being dangerous is a relatively 'new' discovery (mid 1960s). So that's only, what, 3 generations ago? Heck, my mom was born earlier than that. Lots of people smoked then, and we all know you don't just stop cold turkey the say after a health report comes out. This article confirms its a self-perpetuating cycle - if your parents smoked, you're more likely to. And this one from health canada says over half of smokers from First Nations (living on reserves) started smoking between 13 and 16.

Personally, and this links into the Champix discussion a bit, I think that for a lot of people cigarettes are a form of self-medication. We're not aware of 100% of the effects on nicotine and there's a chance that chemically it's beneficial in managing problems like depression. Zyban was originally an antidepressant, and then they realized a lot of people that were on it quit unintentionally. So they market zyban and champix as "blocking nicotine receptors" when they don't actually know exactly what's going on. They know that people take these pills, and no longer get pleasure or satisfaction from smoking - but it's totally possible its also blocking whatever benefit the nic (or WTAs) were granting, mental health-wise.

(And that doesn't even talk about the spiritual relationship First Nations (not Inuit/Dene, though) have with tobacco, nor the differing genetics and physiology that may be a contributing factor to addiction rates, nor the psychological history of a population that the gov't attempted to systematically destroy... but that's territory I'm not comfortable speaking for anyone else, I think.)

 

[tygertyger]

Wayne's world reference. Nice. Pop culture is fun.

Regarding project guys post about 60% of aboriginal people smoking...
Would this have to do with the extreme low cost of cigarettes on reservations?

Wayne's World?..... not exactly..... you're making me feel old here! Looooooong before Wayne, there was an old cheesy shampoo commercial on tv that used this line. Wayne's World was a pop culture reference to the old advertisement!

And I wouldn't be surprised if costs played a factor. It's a lot cheaper....

 

[tygertyger]

Zyban was originally an antidepressant, and then they realized a lot of people that were on it quit unintentionally. So they market zyban and champix as "blocking nicotine receptors" when they don't actually know exactly what's going on.

This happens a LOT in the wonderful world of pharma. They set out to "solve" one problem (though "salve" would be more accurate when all you're doing is addressing symptoms), and end up identifying marketable side-effects.