Yeah, well, they never worried too much about how many dead smokers they created. They don’t care if we live or die, as long as they get our money while we’re alive.
Heat-not-burn, Marlboro/Phillip Morris iQOS first impression
- Thread starter Robby Wilson
- Start date
- th_trl_thread_readers 0
-
- Tags
- first heat-not-burn iqos marlboro
- Status
Yeah, well, they never worried too much about how many dead smokers they created. They don’t care if we live or die, as long as they get our money while we’re alive.
Agreed. They are in the eye atm, so it makes sense they'll start off slow. Once the dust settles, they'll be ramping it up for sure. As with smokes, the problem isn't so much now, but tomorrow !!!
I can remember a time when the only thing in a cigarette was tobacco. The same with this wolf in sheeps clothing.
Other things being equal, I find life without addiction is always better than with it. So for me addiction of any type is never a positive.
I hear ya Rossum, but the picture I see is not that straightforward.
We have a tobacco company involved and they will likely all get on board if they can as they see the success PM will very likely have with HNB products. PM is already throwing their significant weight around stifling independent research findings, and I doubt they will change that as long as they can get away with it. So, just how much safer is HNB? Are they afraid of something they're not telling people being exposed? If they get FDA approval to sell in the US they will target every person in the country, not just cigarette smokers trying to quit. Vaping is already under threat, I can't see a successful rollout of HNB helping vaping any.
IMO this picture has the possibility to go net bad. I'm not saying it will, I said time will tell. It will definitely be very interesting to see how things develop in a few years.
I hate to point this out, but the arguments a few of you folks are making about HnB products sound an awful lot like the arguments some people make about vape products. 
Im fine with that. I would still like to see tobacco company execs heads on a stick.I hate to point this out, but the arguments a few of you folks are making about HnB products sound an awful lot like the arguments some people make about vape products.
BINGO!
While I DO see some potential here in terms of gaining recognition for harm reduction, given the tobacco industry's history of deception, I think we're wise to be skeptical of any claims they may make until they're verified by independent sources.
I am skeptical, to a point, since it IS BT, well they have a habit of keeping stuff uh, on the down low? Other than that issue, which everyone has to decide for themselves, I continue to maintain this is a harm reduction product and should be available to those who want it.
If it helps ONE smoker quit, even if the harm reduction (may) be less than vaping on its own (and I certainly don't know that for sure, although if tests come out I will be interested) I say it should be on the market. Personal choice, risk decisions, all of that.
Anna
If it helps ONE smoker quit, even if the harm reduction (may) be less than vaping on its own (and I certainly don't know that for sure, although if tests come out I will be interested) I say it should be on the market. Personal choice, risk decisions, all of that.
Anna
Here's the real question !.
What does a user do with the by-product ?.
I doubt anyone who buys tobacco, as expensive as it is, to vapourize is going to want to throw it away when it's bone dry.
So is the IQOS the real "gateway" to smoking ?.
Is that the Tobacco companies sneaking into the vaping community through the back door ?.
What does a user do with the by-product ?.
I doubt anyone who buys tobacco, as expensive as it is, to vapourize is going to want to throw it away when it's bone dry.
So is the IQOS the real "gateway" to smoking ?.
Is that the Tobacco companies sneaking into the vaping community through the back door ?.
Last edited:
Are you suggesting that people are going to use their IQOS heat sticks as intended first, but save them when they're spent, and then somehow smoke the remains?
Is there any evidence that this is occurring in markets where IQOS is already available?
Wouldn't it be easier and cheaper to buy some RYO tobacco to use?
Ok I feel compelled to comment here now. As wary as I am of the big tobacco conglomerates of the world, some of these posts are paranoid nonsense right out of the Alex Jones forums. I might be one of the younger ones here, but grow the hell up.
I respect everyone's opinion, but give me a friggin break.
I respect everyone's opinion, but give me a friggin break.
Not sure which comments you referring to but to me being wary...VERY wary, of BT is all but paranoia....I don't want no break. I just want to keep the hell away as far I can from them...!
Last edited:
The more I think about this, the more I notice the ignorance (and I mean that in a good way) in your post...I once had that similar attitude, come to think of it...
People need to really realise what exactly BT has done, and still are doing.
They basically took something beautiful and filthyfied it at our expense....to satisfy their greed. They are the sole cause and reason the beautiful tobacco plant is now demonized.
There was a time when almost everyone smoked....doctors and pastors included. That was the time when tobacco was the only ingredient in a cigarette. People smoked for recreational reasons...not because they could not go without it. It was cool for the right reasons. It was much easier to stop or go without it....!!!
Gradually BT started adding substances and chemicals to it. They employed the best scientists to study our psychiatrical make up, and what drug will do what to keep people as hooked as possible, so they can assure more and more returning customers. They don't care for us, and never have...only for our money.
This new device is only a dejavu to them. They WILL take the same route with this.....period.
Last edited:
Seem to remember an article, long since scrubbed (no really) from the internet in which PM estimated it would control some 90% of the ecig market by 2030 or thereabouts. I'm afraid I didn't hard copy it never imagining that we would see the kind of censorship we are seeing across all media today. It may even have been penned by somebody we know. Anyway…
The original vape post as I recall and found here, is also scrubbed.
Phillip Morris: The Devil In The Details?
This link to me is dead on every browser and a the return search on the domain returns a dead link listing as well. Research anything PM and you will get nothing but carefully managed position and this essay thoroughly gone.
But the above and this article already encapsulated pretty much what I understood after monitoring BP/gov for many years and the likely prospects for the ecig community as I pondered quitting in May 2013.
There is no end game for us…unless we make it, IMO. Not from Trump, industry, China, vape retailers, etc., etc. I'm doubtful that any will come through to try to conserve what little remains of vaping's might have been. At least that was my conclusion, that the door would be shut and hard, given how the TCA had been let to stand. I've seen little since leading me to consider otherwise.
Change can come, I'd still like to believe, with a lot more noise from the real stakeholders. There's just too many willing to say please don't hurt me when don't step on my foot would suffice.
Good luck all.
p.s. If anyone has a hard save of the above mentioned article, I'd appreciate if you'd be so kind as to PM me with it for my rec's (my Murphy, no txt save).
The original vape post as I recall and found here, is also scrubbed.
Phillip Morris: The Devil In The Details?
This link to me is dead on every browser and a the return search on the domain returns a dead link listing as well. Research anything PM and you will get nothing but carefully managed position and this essay thoroughly gone.
But the above and this article already encapsulated pretty much what I understood after monitoring BP/gov for many years and the likely prospects for the ecig community as I pondered quitting in May 2013.
There is no end game for us…unless we make it, IMO. Not from Trump, industry, China, vape retailers, etc., etc. I'm doubtful that any will come through to try to conserve what little remains of vaping's might have been. At least that was my conclusion, that the door would be shut and hard, given how the TCA had been let to stand. I've seen little since leading me to consider otherwise.
Change can come, I'd still like to believe, with a lot more noise from the real stakeholders. There's just too many willing to say please don't hurt me when don't step on my foot would suffice.
Good luck all.
p.s. If anyone has a hard save of the above mentioned article, I'd appreciate if you'd be so kind as to PM me with it for my rec's (my Murphy, no txt save).
Don your tin foil hat to your hearts content, I have done more than enough listening here.
Cheers
Cheers
Wow - look at all those ingredients. Thank God for vaping!Drilling through some links turns up an independent analysis of IQOS aerosol:
https://cdn.doctorsonly.co.il/2017/06/jamainternal_Auer_2017_ld_170021.pdf
Here's the results:
Obviously, it's not as "clean" as vaping (particularly if one is vaping unflavored liquid with coil temperatures below ~450°F), but it's also fairly obvious that it's far better than smoking.
Super informative.
It's all about the money. BT's money. Remember when there were "roll your own" cig places? Well, BT did not like that and, in conjunction with lawmakers (who had to be getting something out of it), they buried the provision in a completely unrelated bill --transportation bill - that put the roll you own folks out of business ---unless they were able to come up with a couple hundred thousand --which, of course, they could not.
As far as vaping BT was dead against it--then they changed their tune and started buying smaller e cig entities, and then started selling e cigs. They also, as we know, spearheaded regs which did cost the vaping industry plenty and did, unfortunately, cause some vape business' to go under --but they could not squash it nor 100% control it --thank God! And now, they want to compete again in another way in an effort to protect themselves (profits).
I'd rather smoke wood than patronize BT.
I do not think I am paranoid about BT ---- they have their self-serving interests above public health.
My opinion, of course.
I guess I do not keep up with their products. Now PMI is saying they want to replace all the smoke burning products
FAQ
"Our Smoke-Free Products
It’s our goal to replace cigarettes with the smoke-free products we’re developing and selling. These products are designed to create a flavorful nicotine-containing vapor, without burning and smoke.
5 million
CONSUMERS HAVE ALREADY SWITCHED TO IQOS
Our current smoke-free product portfolio contains four products in various stages of development and commercialization. IQOS, the first of these products, is already available in many markets around the world"
.
FAQ
"Our Smoke-Free Products
It’s our goal to replace cigarettes with the smoke-free products we’re developing and selling. These products are designed to create a flavorful nicotine-containing vapor, without burning and smoke.
5 million
CONSUMERS HAVE ALREADY SWITCHED TO IQOS
Our current smoke-free product portfolio contains four products in various stages of development and commercialization. IQOS, the first of these products, is already available in many markets around the world"
.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
