Heat-not-burn, Marlboro/Phillip Morris iQOS first impression

[evan le'garde]

Are you suggesting that people are going to use their iqos heat sticks as intended first, but save them when they're spent, and then somehow smoke the remains?

Is there any evidence that this is occurring in markets where IQOS is already available?

Wouldn't it be easier and cheaper to buy some RYO tobacco to use?

The whole idea of vapourizing tobacco is what i'm referring to.

Tobacco companies have muscled in on the vaping industry.

I don't see the vaping industry producing devices for vapourizing tobacco.

Do you hear anyone anywhere talking about IQOS being a gateway to smoking ?.

But you do hear how e-cigs are a gateway to smoking.

As soon as IQOS was released there should have been a backlash from the pro vaping lobbyists about how IQOS is a gateway to smoking. All the negative information being given about vaping should now be directed at IQOS.

But it isn't is it !.

So things will continue as they are. Vaping will still be demonized and products like IQOS will be praised.

What a topsy turvy world we live in.

So where are they ?. All those pro vaping anti tobacco lobbyists, bloggers etc.

No mention via any national or international media outlets about the evils of vaping tobacco.

WEIRD !.

 

[Rossum]

I don't see the vaping industry producing devices for vapourizing tobacco.

Check into the lineage of one of the most successful companies in vaping, Juul. The parent they were spun off from is called Pax Labs, which got got started vaporizers for tobacco. They're still in business and still make them.

As soon as IQOS was released there should have been a backlash from the pro vaping lobbyists about how IQOS is a gateway to smoking.

So you want pro-vaping people to tell the same sort of lies that the ANTZ do, thereby lending credibility to those lies?

 

[evan le'garde]

Check into the lineage of one of the most successful companies in vaping, Juul. The parent they were spun off from is called Pax Labs, which got got started vaporizers for tobacco. They're still in business and still make them.


So you want pro-vaping people to tell the same sort of lies that the ANTZ do, thereby lending credibility to those lies?

You want it to look like i do, i know that much !, but i don't know why !.


Your point, i think, is too repeatedly and deliberately ignore my basic points by twisting them out of context into something else of your choosing !.

It's pretty annoying you know !.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Ah, the net effect of unintended circumstances? Marginalize vapers, invoke the sense of dread and need for stealth, what do you get? Bunch of kids thinking it trendy and glamorous to buck the authoritarian trend. Who would'a thought.

We don’t yet fully understand why these products are so popular among youth. —Dr. Scott Gottlieb

Smart man.

Extract vaping from tobacco legislation.

Good luck.

p.s. When I hear them say "We don't yet know…" and "for the children" a bizarre frightening echo quickly follows in the back of my head, "We're the government and we're here to help."

 

[chellie]

The whole idea of vapourizing tobacco is what i'm referring to.

Tobacco companies have muscled in on the vaping industry.

I don't see the vaping industry producing devices for vapourizing tobacco.

Do you hear anyone anywhere talking about IQOS being a gateway to smoking ?.

But you do hear how e-cigs are a gateway to smoking.

As soon as IQOS was released there should have been a backlash from the pro vaping lobbyists about how IQOS is a gateway to smoking. All the negative information being given about vaping should now be directed at IQOS.

But it isn't is it !.

So things will continue as they are. Vaping will still be demonized and products like IQOS will be praised.

What a topsy turvy world we live in.

So where are they ?. All those pro vaping anti tobacco lobbyists, bloggers etc.

No mention via any national or international media outlets about the evils of vaping tobacco.

WEIRD !.

I do hear you and agree that is is frustrating.

Phillip Morris International (PMI) has now announced that they plan on doing away with analog cigarettes entirely. The world should actually be thanking the vaping industry for a much healthier alternative. Sadly, it all goes back to money. PMI wants to keep their company successful. They tried to take over the vaping industry and, although they have forced changes, they in no way have a monopoly on it.

So now they (BT) came up with another way --iQOS. The iQOS is being billed as providing an experience almost identical to smoking analogs. They readily admit it will be "as addictive" as smoking. It is heated tobacco that has been processed in a certain way. Of course, it will be as addictive as analogs (maybe more -- depending on the ingredients) since that is how BT likely plans on remaining successful -- by keeping the masses addicted. It will eventually - they hope - replace analogs so the folks that currently smoke will likely just move over to the iQOS. I believe they hope it will attack "newbies" and prevent them from using more traditional forms of vaping since it will be sold readily in stores and in a weird kind of way will compete with pods.

I agree with the other posters about being careful as to how this address it. Little 'ole me thinks that the focus should be on
---pointing out how BT was so against e-cigarettes and then when that argument did not fly, they turned to other tactics ... again and again.
---the underhanded tactics they initially employed in trying to "break" the vaping industry.
---educating the public that PMI's newest creation is another tool simply aimed at keeping and growing their business and still contains many many more ingredients that true vaping.
---noting that analog cigarettes are still being sold where the iQOS has been launched and that there has been no announced timeline to stop selling analogs.
---making a comparison that even the name iQOS --which stands for nothing right now is meant to confuse or unduly influence the masses by the comparison to an apple product or other high tech product)
---using their own words to show that the iQOS is nearly as dangerous and as addictive (their words) as analogs
---educating the public that PMI is not demonstrating a true interest in public health.

According ot the PMI website - "The product has already been launched in key cities in Andorra, Bulgaria, Canary Islands, Canada, Colombia, Croatia, Curacao, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, France, Germany, Greece, Guatemala, Italy, Israel, Japan, Kazakhstan, Korea, Lithuania, Monaco, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Palestine, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Russia, Serbia, Slovak Republic, Slovenia, South Africa, Spain, Switzerland, Turkish Cyprus, Ukraine, the United Kingdom, and in some Duty Free shops."

 

[Rossum]

pointing out how BT was so against e-cigarettes and then when that argument did not fly, they turned to other tactics ... again and again.

In light of the hundreds of millions they spent developing, marketing, and merchandising products like VUSE and Mark 10, I'm not sure how they can be accused of being "against e-cigarettes". Against up-start competitors in this space, sure, but the the concept? Nope.

educating the public that PMI's newest creation is another tool simply aimed at keeping and growing their business and still contains many many more ingredients that true vaping.

Do we know this for a fact? We know they contain tobacco and probably PG and/or VG. What else?

making a comparison that even the name iQOS --which stands for nothing right now is meant to confuse or unduly influence the masses by the comparison to an apple product or other high tech product)

IQOS stands for: I Quit Original Smoking

using their own words to show that the iQOS is nearly as dangerous and as addictive (their words) as analogs

As addictive? Probably, because they likely deliver all the minor alkaloids and MAOIs that traditional tobacco products do. That combination is known to be far more addictive than nicotine alone, but the the lack of these is (IMO) also why many people find vaping unsatisfactory and can't successfully switch.

As dangerous as combustion products? I rather doubt that. Let's start with the fact that there's far less carbon monoxide...

educating the public that PMI is not demonstrating a true interest in public health.

How would you like them to demonstrate that?

 

[chellie]

In light of the hundreds of millions they spent developing, marketing, and merchandising products like VUSE and Mark 10, I'm not sure how they can be accused of being "against e-cigarettes". Against up-start competitors in this space, sure, but the the concept? Nope.


Do we know this for a fact? We know they contain tobacco and probably PG and/or VG. What else?


IQOS stands for: I Quit Original Smoking


As addictive? Probably, because they likely deliver all the minor alkaloids and MAOIs that traditional tobacco products do. That combination is known to be far more addictive than nicotine alone, but the the lack of these is (IMO) also why many people find vaping unsatisfactory and can't successfully switch.

As dangerous as combustion products? I rather doubt that. Let's start with the fact that there's far less carbon monoxide...


How would you like them to demonstrate that?

How I would attempt to tackle that task --demonstrating to the public that PMI is more interested in profits than health -- would be by creating some very specific marketing that would focus on a few very important points. (Of course, the think-tanks and lawyers would have to fine tune the points/legalities since BT has deep pockets and can crush those in their way) but if I had to pick 4 it would be
---their initial stance on e-cigarettes
---their flipflopping on issues related to vaping
---their tactics at trying to protect BT (including purchases of items they were so against -as well as the example of putting the roll your own out of business by burying it in the transportation bill)
---their decision to stop making analogs/creating Iqos

In the marketing promos that would run like campaign ads in print, radio and tv--I'd also have some real-life success stories about vaping using real folks not actors.

 

[Rossum]

How I would attempt to tackle that task --demonstrating to the public that PMI is more interested in profits than health -

Do you think anyone would actually regard that as "news"? I think it goes without saying that PMI/Altria is more interested in profits than health, but I think the same is true of the pharma companies as well, not to mention the Big Food companies, the beer, wine, and spirits suppliers, etc, etc, etc. Then there's the numerous e-liquid companies that still sell juice with diketones, cinnamaldehyde, and other questionable flavoring components.

 

[chellie]

Do you think anyone would actually regard that as "news"? I think it goes without saying that PMI/Altria is more interested in profits than health, but I think the same is true of the pharma companies as well, not to mention the Big Food companies, the beer, wine, and spirits suppliers, etc, etc, etc. Then there's the numerous e-liquid companies that still sell juice with diketones, cinnamaldehyde, and other questionable flavoring components.

I do. I do not see really much in the mainstream about vaping. The other night on TV there was an ad on TV and I missed most of it but I did catch that it was PMI and they were "required" to run it.

In politics, for example, there are many other related groups that run ads and publish information. Rather than see the ads of the woman who had her face half ravaged by smoking --which is awful and does send a powerful anti-smoking message - I'd like to see some real mainstream educational material running on primetime TV during American Idol or something that shows someone vaping who can truly attest that they feel better since they vape, Maybe someone who could not climb stairs without getting winded who now participated in a small run for a good cause. And then close with whatever message we can legally present like Vaping -- a much better alternative than smoking cigarettes,

Or what about a fact-based commercial --- like the "did you know" spots.

I think there is a lot more that can be done.

But that type of plan costs a lot of money --money that the BT entities more or less have at their disposal.

My 2 cents.

 

[chellie]

Here's a great example of what I consider deceptive practices by PMI.

Because I am so suspicious of them I did a screen grab.

Anyhow, I mentioned in an earlier post that IQOS, according to PMI, does not stand for anything. Seemed a bit weird to me and I even thought they are trying to deceive people by likening the name to an iPhone or iPad etc, I still think that factored in and the I before the name is meant to unduly influence.

Anyhow, according to their FAQ's,
What does IQOS mean?
IQOS is not an acronym but a brand name, created to denote an innovative product.

Well, there are many publications saying that it stands for I Quit Original Smoking. Call me jaded but I so believe that and I believe because they having regulatory challenges that they are not stating that is what it means.

Philip Morris device knows a lot about your smoking habit

 

[ScottP]

Do you think anyone would actually regard that as "news"? I think it goes without saying that PMI/Altria is more interested in profits than health, but I think the same is true of the pharma companies as well, not to mention the Big Food companies, the beer, wine, and spirits suppliers, etc, etc, etc. Then there's the numerous e-liquid companies that still sell juice with diketones, cinnamaldehyde, and other questionable flavoring components.

I think it goes without saying that there is no company on the planet (especially publicly traded companies) that actually cares about it's customers. Not one single one. They only care as far as they have to in order to keep fleecing customers of their money. Some do care about their reputation, but again, only as a selling point to get more customers and more money.

That is the nature of business, doing what it takes to make more profit. You can't fault a scorpion when it stings you, that's just what they do. That is why I don't trust scorpions.

 

[Fredman1]

True, and BT is by far the worst of them all. To actively addictify your customers to the point of killing them, for their money, takes some beating...!!!

 

[smacuser]

I need to get one for my dad.

 

[smacuser]

Really.

 

[sofarsogood]

My opinion, governments are the villians in this story, not business. Government take the money. In fact they've been taking most of the money. I'm still grateful to be vaping and not smoking and there have been consequences, I'm back to hard core fitness, lifting, cardio, and walking 25 miles a week and vaping every step of the way. In the mean time I still feel compassion for smokers. If heat not burn will get more of them off cigs I'm all for it regardless of the manufacturer.

 

[RichardV]

Close up and peel.
View attachment 741817

Cheers
I

Yikes!! That looks like the dust cleaned from a cigarette manufacturing facility floor.

 

[NicotineRush]

Concerned about your data privacy? IQOS mines your data!

Philip Morris device knows a lot about your smoking habit

 

[Rossum]

Concerned about your data privacy? IQOS mines your data!
Philip Morris device knows a lot about your smoking habit

Unless the device has some method of communicating back to the corporate mothership (and Bluetooth alone is not sufficient to accomplish that) this isn't much of a worry.

FWIW, Evolv does the same thing with their newer DNA chipsets. If you connect your DNA mod to your computer on which you've installed their Escribe software and you haven't de-selected a certain option, Evolv's server gets data regarding your use of the device.

 

[Aescwynn]

Concerned about your data privacy? IQOS mines your data!

Philip Morris device knows a lot about your smoking habit

Was just going to post this. Oh yes, the folks in this thread are straight out of Alex Jones territory, are we? Let's see...

Gregory Connolly, a professor at Northeastern University in Boston who has studied iQOS technology and patents, said Philip Morris' ability to gather user data could give the device remarkable power.

“What they’re going to have is a mega database of how Americans smoke,” he said. “Then they’ll be able to reprogram the current puffing delivery pattern of the iQOS to one that may be more reinforcing and with a higher addiction potential.”

Told about those comments, Philip Morris referred to remarks in January by its vice president for scientific and public communications, Moira Gilchrist.

“I can reassure that there’s no technology in there that’s intended to manipulate in any way what is delivered from iQOS,” Gilchrist told a panel of scientific advisers for the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA).

 

[Aescwynn]

Oh and this:

At the January meeting of the FDA advisory panel, Gilchrist was quizzed on how the company is using Bluetooth, which provides for greater connectivity with iQOS users. She replied that it is used to remind consumers, for instance, when they have to clean their device or re-order HeatSticks so they didn’t run out and have to revert to regular cigarettes.

“You know, for example, a message may come up: ‘Hey, you haven't used your iQOS device today,’” Gilchrist said. “Have you stopped smoking, or is it because you've gone back to combustible cigarettes?"

That's invasive at best and at worst, an example of a way to nag people to keep using their addictive products. Count me in on the Alex Jones territory. I really hate Big Tobacco.