HHS Sec Azar Claims Every Ecig on Market Illegal

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brad-man

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Every deemed "tobacco product" for which a PMTA hasn't been filed will be illegal then.

But this is still more than six months in the future and you cannot possibly convince me that someone who has risen to the level of a United States Cabinet Secretary position doesn't understand one of the most basic concepts in the use of language; past, present, and future tense.

In this Administration? Surely you jest.
 

bombastinator

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In this Administration? Surely you jest.
It depends. Not all department heads are actually administration appointed. This one was though
Alex Azar - Wikipedia


The current administration has suffered large amounts of personnel turnover, and has had an unusually hard time finding qualified people willing to fill positions. I don’t know how it compares stats wise to the Carter administration, but that’s the last time I know of that this level of the problem was reached. Unlike the carter administration a system had been previously put in place which allowed a non appointed government employee to automatically advance to interim head until an administration employee is appointed. This means many government departments continue to function despite no appointed official being present.
 

stols001

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Wait...; So if it's all illegal and has been for some time, nobody needs to do anything right? It's all illegal.... We're all doing fine....

Seems like "SHARE THE GOOD NEWS" to me.

LOL IDK. Governments.

Just like you should have to take a parenting test (to be fair, I MIGHTA failed but I had the great "I put down ALL drugs and tobacco the MOMENT I found out" going for me) there should be s study of the "Life of the Politician," test and if they didn't govern themselves well, like, they should not be governing the country.

I mean... Didn't like a lesser KENNEDY like drive drunk into a lake and kill his date while saving himself and he STILL got to be in Congress? This seems unfair I have never driven drunk into a lake (that I know of) nor killed my date (that I know of) and *I* am not a member of Congress.

Damnit.
Anna
 

Letitia

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The confusion is that there were multiple dates in the Deeming Regs. All products on the market PRIOR to the 2007 date are 100% exempt from the PMTA process and can be sold indefinitely without any additional authorization. All products on the market after the 2007 date but prior 8/8/16 are subject to the PMTA process BUT are allowed to continue to be sold until the PMTA deadline which is currently 8/8/2022. After that date they will require authorization to continue to be sold. Anything that came to market after the 8/8/2016 date is technically NOT supposed to be sold, but this has not been enforced at all.

Of course in the current climate, this could change at any time.
This is what I find amazing simply due to the fact that newer products are safer with improved safeties build into the chips. Of course only talking about regulated here.
 

brad-man

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Wait...; So if it's all illegal and has been for some time, nobody needs to do anything right? It's all illegal.... We're all doing fine....

Seems like "SHARE THE GOOD NEWS" to me.

LOL IDK. Governments.

Just like you should have to take a parenting test (to be fair, I MIGHTA failed but I had the great "I put down ALL drugs and tobacco the MOMENT I found out" going for me) there should be s study of the "Life of the Politician," test and if they didn't govern themselves well, like, they should not be governing the country.

I mean... Didn't like a lesser KENNEDY like drive drunk into a lake and kill his date while saving himself and he STILL got to be in Congress? This seems unfair I have never driven drunk into a lake (that I know of) nor killed my date (that I know of) and *I* am not a member of Congress.

Damnit.
Anna

I'd say you rise to the current requirements for Cabinet appointment. If you manage to get on Fox News and praise the Donald effectively, you'll at the very least, get your foot in the door...
 

CMD-Ky

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I'd say you rise to the current requirements for Cabinet appointment. If you manage to get on Fox News and praise the Donald effectively, you'll at the very least, get your foot in the door...

Oh for God's sake, take it "Outside" where this partisan crap belongs.
 
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Georgia Boy

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Azar keeps telling us he and the Administration are going to ban Flavors, it's just the first step of many trying prop up ailing Tobacco revenues. Tobacco stocks surged on Friday after his statement at least The Surgeon General will be doing carts with his Portfolio doing so well.

While real culprits THC Carts and the sellers of these mostly black market products are still not recognized by the Media or Politicians, although are being they being caught..

upload_2019-10-20_13-30-36.png
 

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Rossum

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It looks like this is grandfathered in, does Njoy still exist? One good thing is it took replaceable batts LOL Quit Smoking Products
I looked them up, they are still around and could be the only company with a grandfathered product??
"NJOY is a pioneer in vaping and a leader in a revolution against combustible cigarettes. The brand was founded in 2006 and has continued to serve as an innovator and thought leader in the vaping category"
Interesting.

The FDA did claim there was at least one product that met the grandfather date, but they were unwilling to tell anyone what it was.

I'm not sure this is it either. That archive looks to be from late September 2007, and actual cut-off date was February 15th. The earliest capture of that product seems to be in May. Closer, but still doesn't meet the date.

And then I gotta ask, "What difference does it make?" The state-of-the-art in 2007 is unacceptable now; it simply would not sell.
 

Rossum

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A feature, not a bug. The goal will have been achieved and the youts of America will be saved from a deadly epidemic.
:vapor:
I suspect the youts of America will do what they wanna do and get what they wanna get with little regard for the FDA's "regulations".
 

stols001

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You know I love the teens of America. They're so dopey doing the crud they do, I've had my moments of hate for the nitwits and their parents and apart from the programming they've gotten (and we all have to some degree) well, they aren't that different. The whininess is a bit annoying, but I bet I was pretty whiny. I never tried to sue anyone but frankly, it was probably because it didn't occur to me/didn't seem fun.

Parents you know, suck but then many parents do. I mean my parents were not awarded "parent of year" trophies and I bet I wouldn't have gotten one either. Raising kids SUCKS. It SERIOUSLY does. They have done happiness studies in marriage and it's like HIGH until the kids arrive, then it dips to "I might put my head in the oven," until the kid up and leaves.

Face it, they're revolting, unteachable monsters (well, you can do SOME stuff) but teen are hormonal, feral and they WILL do what they WILL do,

I've decided to remain mad at the government using them, not the teens themselves. Except for that "Jarod of Vaping" kid who had to go to rehab over his Juul habit. I will hate him forever because it is SIMPLY impossible not to. But the stealthy kids, doing their stealthy thing. Eh. It is what it is.

Anna
 

bombastinator

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Interesting.

The FDA did claim there was at least one product that met the grandfather date, but they were unwilling to tell anyone what it was.

I'm not sure this is it either. That archive looks to be from late September 2007, and actual cut-off date was February 15th. The earliest capture of that product seems to be in May. Closer, but still doesn't meet the date.

And then I gotta ask, "What difference does it make?" The state-of-the-art in 2007 is unacceptable now; it simply would not sell.
It would if there wasn’t anything else available. BT doesn’t have anything better even now. Killing 12 years of technological advancement is the only way their products would have a hope of survival. They can’t make anything good.
 

bombastinator

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Technically illegal, yes. But how much will actually get "shut down" will depend on how vigorously this stuff is enforced. Some will surely exit voluntarily, but others will not. I know one vape shop owner who says he will stay open until men with guns show up to take him away and padlock his store. He still openly custom-mixes house juice too.


Agreed, and besides, who would want it?


Anything "post 2016" was never supposed to have been available to begin with. Yet it is. Was there a lack of will to enforce this part of the Deeming? Or was it a lack of resources?

It will certainly be interesting to see what happens post 5/11/20.
From the tiny bit I’ve talked to shop owners, lack of will. They are very very closely monitored, at least here.
 
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CMD-Ky

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I suspect the youts of America will do what they wanna do and get what they wanna get with little regard for the FDA's "regulations".

The FDA is not interested in how effective their actions are, they are only interested in how their actions are perceived.
 

AttyPops

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I'm pretty sure that I won't be able to kick the nic, so that's that.

:censored: it.
I think I'm supposed to just die and solve the whole damn problem. But I guess I'll have to start smoking again when all my devices fail and let nature take its course. Or maybe grow my own since taxes are so dang high, can't hardly afford to smoke either, these days.

Sure all of this makes sense if you're BT and trying to take over the market with the help of the politicians. To hell with democracy, right?

Screw em all. I don't trust BT's juice, nor their HNB crap. Then again, their cigs aren't exactly trustworthy either (I know that's kind of an oxymoron).

Did anyone see the ingredient lists posted for the HNB stuff? Wow.

/rant.
 

CMD-Ky

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Agree completely and only the devil will know what the tobacco companies will put in their liquids.

I'm pretty sure that I won't be able to kick the nic, so that's that.

:censored: it.
I think I'm supposed to just die and solve the whole damn problem. But I guess I'll have to start smoking again when all my devices fail and let nature take its course. Or maybe grow my own since taxes are so dang high, can't hardly afford to smoke either, these days.

Sure all of this makes sense if you're BT and trying to take over the market with the help of the politicians. To hell with democracy, right?

Screw em all. I don't trust BT's juice, nor their HNB crap. Then again, their cigs aren't exactly trustworthy either (I know that's kind of an oxymoron).

Did anyone see the ingredient lists posted for the HNB stuff? Wow.

/rant.
 

ENAUD

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I'm pretty sure that I won't be able to kick the nic, so that's that.

:censored: it.
I think I'm supposed to just die and solve the whole damn problem. But I guess I'll have to start smoking again when all my devices fail and let nature take its course. Or maybe grow my own since taxes are so dang high, can't hardly afford to smoke either, these days.

Sure all of this makes sense if you're BT and trying to take over the market with the help of the politicians. To hell with democracy, right?

Screw em all. I don't trust BT's juice, nor their HNB crap. Then again, their cigs aren't exactly trustworthy either (I know that's kind of an oxymoron).

Did anyone see the ingredient lists posted for the HNB stuff? Wow.

/rant.
I'd chew gum before giving BT another dime...not saying much there, but devil you choose. :laugh::facepalm: I have also put some mental gymnastics into self made nic spray...the maths are not all that difficult to work out, and any flavoring could be used for oral administration of chosen dosage. Actually thinkng of mixing some up for my next flight, nic ala binaca style ingestion :D
 

AttyPops

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I'd chew gum before giving BT another dime...not saying much there, but devil you choose. :laugh::facepalm: I have also put some mental gymnastics into self made nic spray...the maths are not all that difficult to work out, and any flavoring could be used for oral administration of chosen dosage. Actually thinkng of mixing some up for my next flight, nic ala binaca style ingestion :D
I manged 7 months on the gum/lozenges back in 2001-ish. But it's too damn hard on my stomach.

That nic spray was just approved for release, made by BP. BUT, as you say, I'm sure a self-made version is 1000x less expensive and flavored as you want.

Did you deal with the ph issue so it can get more easily absorbed? My understanding is that chew has a much different ph than, say, cig/pipe tobacco. And that impacts absorption. But maybe juice is already set for that.
 
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