Hot Spot?

[PoliticallyIncorrect]

I hesitate in exposing my ignorance--be gentle, folks--but I've been eyeballing a Genesis tank. I'd pushed the idea aside because from afar the setup seems daunting (a blowtorch?? You gotta be $#!++ing me).

I've seen enough YouTube videos now that my trepidation has settled to something manageable, but there's a few details that are escaping me--the first among them being Hot Spots.

Lots of videos take up the subject--how to avoid or eliminate them--but all that I've seen make the assumption that if you're looking at this, you already know what they are. Well, dammit, I'm here to tell you: I don't. I've tried listening in on conversations here hoping to extract that bit of information by osmosis without having to throw myself at the mercy of others, but I'm just going to have to request your understanding and--yes--your mercy.

what's a Hot Spot?

 

[vapdivrr]

a hot spot is a place where its happening. I go to these places when I want a fun time. or its a place on the earth where temperatures are extremely hot. also in police matters, its a place where there is trouble. it also can be a part of a coil that is not in proper contact with another metal, like the wick, which then causes a slight short, this short is the result in the electricity following the path of less resistance. in other words the coils that are in good contact with the wick glow differently then with a coil in not so good contact, this coil is hotter, therefore glows more.

 

[gankoji]

a hot spot is a place where its happening. I go to these places when I want a fun time. or its a place on the earth where temperatures are extremely hot. also in police matters, its a place where there is trouble. it also can be a part of a coil that is not in proper contact with another metal, like the wick, which then causes a slight short, this short is the result in the electricity following the path of less resistance. in other words the coils that are in good contact with the wick glow differently then with a coil in not so good contact, this coil is hotter, therefore glows more.

This is actually not quite correct. A hot spot is, entirely, a localized region (spot) of your coil that is at a higher temperature than the rest of the coil (hot). It most often occurs in gennies setup with SS mesh. In this case, vapdivrr is right about improper contact between the coil wire and the wick material. However, it absolutely should not be a result of a 'slight short,' because you'd be in a lot more trouble than hot spots with a short (e.g. ridiculously low overall resistance). In general, there will not be any shorting between wire and wick if the wick is oxidized properly.

In SS mesh wicked setups, the mesh actually acts a large heat sink. It literally 'wicks' away heat from the coil, and does so best with the pieces of wire it touches. Thus, if you don't have even tension on your coil, and therefore uneven contact between wire and wick, you will have hot spots.

In other types of wick setup, you can get hot spots from uneven spacing of the wires, e.g. two wires are touching but the rest are not. This type of hot spot is rather easy to avoid, which is why many people prefer other types of wick over SS mesh.

Hopefully that answers your Q OP

 

[PoliticallyIncorrect]

Thanks guys. Got it. Now I'm wondering why--if shorts are an issue--why a conductive material is used to begin with?

Sent from my SPH-D710VMUB using Tapatalk 2

 

[WattWick]

Thanks guys. Got it. Now I'm wondering why--if shorts are an issue--why a conductive material is used to begin with?

Sent from my SPH-D710VMUB using Tapatalk 2

That is the whole point of the blowtorch. Creating a layer of oxidation to make the surface of an otherwise conductive wicking material non-conductive. The reason to use SS mesh? I find it's the one type of wicking material that don't taste anything other than the juice you're boiling. And it doesn't need replacing like silica, ekowool or cotton. Very little maintenance except the occasional dry burn and water rinse.

That being said, I don't use a blowtorch to oxidize my wicks. I soak them in juice and set them on fire with a lighter.

 

[Jazzi Mike]

I agree with the above poster. You definitely don't have to use a blowtorch. I just use a lighter and burn some juice on my wicks. SS mesh is a total B---- to work with. However, in the end, it does taste better than any other wick setup.

 

[gankoji]

For a lot of folks, SS mesh is the way to go because of flavor. My personal opinion is that SS mesh tastes awful and makes my juices do the same. BUT, mesh is the best media for moving juice from a tank to a coil. Period.

 

[vapdivrr]

This is actually not quite correct. A hot spot is, entirely, a localized region (spot) of your coil that is at a higher temperature than the rest of the coil (hot). It most often occurs in gennies setup with SS mesh. In this case, vapdivrr is right about improper contact between the coil wire and the wick material. However, it absolutely should not be a result of a 'slight short,' because you'd be in a lot more trouble than hot spots with a short (e.g. ridiculously low overall resistance). In general, there will not be any shorting between wire and wick if the wick is oxidized properly.

In SS mesh wicked setups, the mesh actually acts a large heat sink. It literally 'wicks' away heat from the coil, and does so best with the pieces of wire it touches. Thus, if you don't have even tension on your coil, and therefore uneven contact between wire and wick, you will have hot spots.

In other types of wick setup, you can get hot spots from uneven spacing of the wires, e.g. two wires are touching but the rest are not. This type of hot spot is rather easy to avoid, which is why many people prefer other types of wick over SS mesh.

Hopefully that answers your Q OP

are you saying that a slight short between the wick & wire wont produce a hotspot?

 

[Thrasher]

hotspots occur where the tension of the wire is uneven in a certain place OR the coils are not properly spaced.

the whole blowtorch thing gets old and you find this is old school and isnt needed anymore.

I personally roll the wicks then just burn the end till red, wrap the coil on the wick then insert the wick and put a paperclip in the end to hold it stiff while i pull the ends tight and lock it down. then slowly pulse the mod to check the evenness of the glow on the coil, adjusting the spacing as I keep pulsing, then you will see the shorts work out and the coil glows evenly. fill and go.. once you get through a tank or two the built up juice will coat everything and it should vape very nicely.


theres a couple reasons mesh found its way as a wick. it actually wicks well. it does not wear out easily and the vapor is very clean tasting with a strong nic delivery when set up correctly.
I keep trying the wick of the month but always end up going back to mesh, for my juice its the best flavor to me.

to avoid the whole blowtorch thing look for vids on the pulsing method, when you add a quick preburn of the wick end to this method it ends up taking all of 10 minutes once you get good at it.

 

[vapdivrr]

I guess I did kind of word it wrong, the improper contact creates a hot spot, this improper contact isn't a short, its just not contacting the wick correctly. but another thing that can create a hotspot is a short. I just combined the short in the wrong sentence.

 

[gankoji]

I guess I did kind of word it wrong, the improper contact creates a hot spot, this improper contact isn't a short, its just not contacting the wick correctly. but another thing that can create a hotspot is a short. I just combined the short in the wrong sentence.

Vapdivrr, this is exactly what I meant. I didn't mean to imply that your interpretation of the root cause (improper tension, uneven contact) was incorrect, only the shorting part .

Call me picky, I just like to make sure that the n00bs get very accurate information.

 

[Kyi]

Thanks, I was curious about this myself. So as long as the coils are spaced correctly and evenly touch the wick/mesh, they should not have hot spots? I am buying some supplies to attempt my first rebuild with, I feel like I have it somewhat figured out from all the videos and posts I've read but there are still some small nit-picky stuff I want to be sure about. I want to try both mesh and silica wick and get a RBA as well as a RDA. As far as hot spots go, after I am finished attaching the coil/wick/mesh and check the ohms to make sure its safe, I would just pulse the device several times to see if the coils burn red evenly? What exactly am I looking for? I see some people start pulsing their coils before checking the ohms... is that safe?

Also, would you guys recommend that all wick/mesh be torched with some liquid on top of it or before it's attached/coiled? I'm confused about the build order. And what part of the wire/wick/mesh is not suppose to touch each other? I'm still confused about that. The coils are obviously in the screw posts, but other than that, the coil on top of the wick/mesh is not suppose to touch anything else, not even the coils next to it in the same spiral?? I need more clear details about this, as I'm afraid of shorting out my coils or damaging myself or my batteries. Oh and while I'm here... would an Igo-S and a RSST be a good beginner setup for a newbie that wants to try both types and using Ego VV type batteries (Twist, Spinner, iTaste VV)? Thanks all!

 

[vapdivrr]

Thanks, I was curious about this myself. So as long as the coils are spaced correctly and evenly touch the wick/mesh, they should not have hot spots? I am buying some supplies to attempt my first rebuild with, I feel like I have it somewhat figured out from all the videos and posts I've read but there are still some small nit-picky stuff I want to be sure about. I want to try both mesh and silica wick and get a RBA as well as a RDA. As far as hot spots go, after I am finished attaching the coil/wick/mesh and check the ohms to make sure its safe, I would just pulse the device several times to see if the coils burn red evenly? What exactly am I looking for? I see some people start pulsing their coils before checking the ohms... is that safe?

Also, would you guys recommend that all wick/mesh be torched with some liquid on top of it or before it's attached/coiled? I'm confused about the build order. And what part of the wire/wick/mesh is not suppose to touch each other? I'm still confused about that. The coils are obviously in the screw posts, but other than that, the coil on top of the wick/mesh is not suppose to touch anything else, not even the coils next to it in the same spiral?? I need more clear details about this, as I'm afraid of shorting out my coils or damaging myself or my batteries. Oh and while I'm here... would an Igo-S and a RSST be a good beginner setup for a newbie that wants to try both types and using Ego VV type batteries (Twist, Spinner, iTaste VV)? Thanks all!

well the spacing part used to be they all had to have gaps between, but now with micro coils, they can actually be touching. with that said, I would at first do a standard coil where each coil is not touching, and there is a space in between. the best way to pulse oxidize the wick is with a mechanical mod and not a vv device. by pulsing the coils on a un-oxidized ss mesh wick you are oxidizing it with the wire and not from a torch. this has big advantages, and the biggest is that you don't need oxidation on the whole wick, only where it is needed, and that's where the 2 metals meet. this produces better flavor, is probably safer, and doesn't darken the juice as much. so anyways, you roll up your mesh and maybe just take a lighter to it for a second, this may just sort of clean any residue that may be on the mesh. install wick into wick hole and start to wrap your wire. don't wrap to tight nor to loose. this wrapping technic sounds easy but takes some practice, its the tension that is important, especially at the top and final coil. once wrapped, tighten up all connections. now its time to pulse oxidize, this is better to do with a depleted battery, maybe about 3.7v. you are going to pulse and stop, pulse a little more and stop. at first just the top coil will glow, then the next, then the next. this takes some time so don't rush it. you are looking for nice glowing coils (I forgot to mention, while doing this there is no juice in tank) if you get to a point where maybe the first 2 coils are glowing but you can get the others to glow, well you may have to prod the wires with a tooth pic or something, this will jump start the other coils and eventually all the coils will start to glow nice and evenly. eventually all wire should be glowing the same. once you achieve this consistently every time you fire the device you are ready to install a fresh battery. now all coils should also glow evenly with this fresh battery and once this all happens consistanly you are now ready to add juice and vape. check resistances from time to time to make sure it stays the same. usually if the resistance is lower then it should be there is a short, or the tension isn't correct, if the resistance is higher, it may be a connection issue. good luck.

 

[vapdivrr]

Vapdivrr, this is exactly what I meant. I didn't mean to imply that your interpretation of the root cause (improper tension, uneven contact) was incorrect, only the shorting part .

Call me picky, I just like to make sure that the n00bs get very accurate information.

its all good.

 

[PoliticallyIncorrect]

...this wrapping technic sounds easy...

The hell it does. Sounds like the instructions for disarming a nuclear bomb

 

[Kyi]

Thanks for the info vapdivrr, I've been reading my .... off the past 2 days and I'm finally starting to feel like maybe this whole RBA thing isn't really as difficult as I thought it was. I'm just worried about a battery exploding in my face. Most of my batteries are VV devices and I don't really have any of the big fancy mods, unless you consider the iTaste MVP and Versa VV one. Can you tell me why a mechanical mod is better for pulsing? Can I use my Vmod mini?? Not sure if that is a mechanical but I think it is. This way the battery won't explode if something goes wrong? I will be using a digital all purpose multimeter so as long as I get a normalish ohm reading, it means it's good to go? So instead of torching the SS mesh and oxidizing it with liquid, I should attach the completed coil to a mechanical mod and use the pulse to oxidize instead?

Sorry so many questions. I wish there was a RBA FAQ or something! Or is there?? I picked up an Igo-S, thinking of getting something else as well. Is there soemthing better about using coils with really low ohm? I have never used anything that low ohm... and I usually vape around 4-4.2 volts.

 

[gankoji]

Thanks for the info vapdivrr, I've been reading my .... off the past 2 days and I'm finally starting to feel like maybe this whole RBA thing isn't really as difficult as I thought it was. I'm just worried about a battery exploding in my face. Most of my batteries are VV devices and I don't really have any of the big fancy mods, unless you consider the iTaste MVP and Versa VV one. Can you tell me why a mechanical mod is better for pulsing? Can I use my Vmod mini?? Not sure if that is a mechanical but I think it is. This way the battery won't explode if something goes wrong? I will be using a digital all purpose multimeter so as long as I get a normalish ohm reading, it means it's good to go? So instead of torching the SS mesh and oxidizing it with liquid, I should attach the completed coil to a mechanical mod and use the pulse to oxidize instead?

Sorry so many questions. I wish there was a RBA FAQ or something! Or is there?? I picked up an Igo-S, thinking of getting something else as well. Is there soemthing better about using coils with really low ohm? I have never used anything that low ohm... and I usually vape around 4-4.2 volts.

1) Pulse oxidizing vs. torch oxidizing is a matter of preference. Both achieve the same thing, which is ~zero conductivity between coil and wick. Pulsing is more convenient/less messy, torching is more thorough and less of a hazard to your battery/mod.

2) I'd personally consider the iTaste MVP a 'big fancy mod!'

3) VV/VW vs. Mech: VV/VW devices have electronic circuits within the device to achieve the variation in output. Trouble is, as with all small circuit boards, these circuits are current/power limited. Generally, they have brownout/overdraw protection, or at the very least fusing in the circuit. Which means you are limited to whatever maximum power the designers of the device picked, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Mechanicals, on the other hand, are simply a tube/box that holds a battery, a switch, and an atty connector. Which means that you are unlimited in the power you can draw (by the device anywho).

Pulse oxidizing generally starts out with an unoxidized coil in contact with an unoxidized wick, which generally results in some shorting between coil and atomizer. This low resistance draws and awful lot of current, which would overdraw a VV/VW device and cause it to fail/blow a fuse/give an error code. Hence the preference for mechs in pulsing.

4) For VV/VW devices, you'll generally want to be above 1.0 ohms, as most of them can't or won't fire anything below that. With mechs, its up to you to determine what your safe resistance limit is, based on your setup and battery.

5) Low ohm coils allow you to draw lots and lots of power from a single battery. So, if you're chasing clouds or just need better nic delivery/flavor/heat from your vape, you can wrap a low resistance coil and put normal battery voltage (3.7 nom, 4.2 fresh charge) through it to get there.

Lots of info in there, hope it helps. </rant>

 

[Kyi]

So with my setup of Ego type VVs and non-mechanical mods (except for the Vmod), I should torch them instead of using my batteries? Does using it on a mechanical mean less risk of battery problems or should I not worry about that as long as the ohm is reading something manageable? How would you recommend I oxidize my wick/coil? I bought some mesh as well as 3mm silica and 32 gauge wire. Should I just burn everything with a lighter before I start the coiling and if I do that, do I still need to do the pulsing thing to check for hot spots or make my coils red or whatnot? Just wanna make sure my first build goes smooth as possible. I don't want to short out my VV devices, and I think my Vmod mini uses 14500 3.7V 800mah lithium-ion protected batteries.

 

[WattWick]

Oxidation is for stainless steel (SS) mesh wicks. No need to oxidize silica, cotton or ekowool as they're not conductive

Its still worth testing the coil on a dry wick with somewhat short pulses to see if the wraps heat up evenly. A couple/few seconds is no problem. You just want to avoid toasting the wick tooo much. Worst case is you pop a coil or get a wick that will taste slightly burnt... and you get to start over again.

 

[gankoji]

So with my setup of Ego type VVs and non-mechanical mods (except for the Vmod), I should torch them instead of using my batteries? Does using it on a mechanical mean less risk of battery problems or should I not worry about that as long as the ohm is reading something manageable? How would you recommend I oxidize my wick/coil? I bought some mesh as well as 3mm silica and 32 gauge wire. Should I just burn everything with a lighter before I start the coiling and if I do that, do I still need to do the pulsing thing to check for hot spots or make my coils red or whatnot? Just wanna make sure my first build goes smooth as possible. I don't want to short out my VV devices, and I think my Vmod mini uses 14500 3.7V 800mah lithium-ion protected batteries.

Lol listing my answers again 'cuz there's too many questions:

1) Yes, you should torch. Pulsing likely will just not work, because your VV devices won't be able to suppy the high current needed for pulsing.

2) Using a mechanical actually means increased risk of battery problems, because your batteries have one less layer of protection (those electronic circuits that prevent overdraw I mentioned earlier). However, if you're smart about what you do this isn't a problem.

3) Lighter and juice. Works every time for me.

4) Like WattWick said, you only need to oxidize mesh or other SS wicks like cable. Silica/cotton require no ox.

5) In general, you should certainly pulse the coil dry and check for hot spots. You can do this with the wick installed in SS and silica builds, and ekowool as well. But if you're using cotton, check for hot spots without the wick installed. You definitely do NOT want to taste burnt cotton .

6) As long as your VV devices are well made, they won't allow you to short them out. They have circuitry specifically designed to detect that, and will not allow the battery to supply power to a shorted coil.