Houston, we have a problem...BE nic titration results

[Olef]

So far, and I'm NOT making this up, all the too-high nic BE samples, save for one, are lots 256 or 257.

It may be relevant for me to drop in here... the two faulty 500ml bottles of Box Elder 48mg nic I have (which smell and taste bad) are both lot 256. As soon as I read your lot numbers I had to check them, kinda gave me a little shiver when I saw the 256 on both bottles.

More than ever I would really like to know if these two bottles are just bad tasting or over strength.

 

[tmcase]

The government is going to get their fat asses into this anyway and I don't trust them anymore than I do Box Elder.

As far as a hood, Kurt could tell as soon as he opened the bottle that it was way too high and he didn't have it under a hood at the time and he is still with us thankfully, so I think anybody would be able to tell also. If that was the case than I wouldn't even try to test it. I would send it to Kurt if he was willing to test it.

 

[rkayw]

Yes, I know that. He stated he had to work under a hood after he realized it was too strong not to.
Just saying...based on you saying that you wouldn't mind getting 200mg in error...ya might want to think about more safety gear before hand, rather then later.
lol. Purely hypothetical of course.

 

[Switched]

Pardon me, were you speaking to me?

ETA: I don't think asking for proper respect for their positions as ECF board members (is that even the right terminology?) is drama. We'll have to agree to disagree if that is your implication.

Jan

Simply speak with your wallet...

 

[Katya]

I don't know about the rest of you but if my sample of 100mg that Kurt is sampling turns out to be 200mg, I'll be a happy camper because then I can make twice as just ejuice but it will shake my confidence in BE, which has already been shaken by the way, and that is why I will be testing my own nic juice from now on no matter where I buy it.

Tmcase, I really hope you are joking. 20% nicotine is a deadly poison. It's being sent via USPS in an innocent-looking padded envelope or a priority box (I'm not even going to discuss legal implications here)--what if that bottle breaks or leaks and injures an unsuspecting postal worker? Or somebody's family member or a pet?

Kurt has done magnificent work testing this stuff and informing the community. I hope and pray that our juice manufacturers and resellers take this incident as a warning and act accordingly.

 

[afrazier5]

If Burger King had tainted meat and you found out they sold some of their meat to McDonalds, would you eat meat from McDonalds?

I can honestly say yes I absolutely would because I do my research and understand how things like this happen and how companies handle them.

Let me explain why I would and would recommend that everyone else 'buy meat' from McDonalds. The tainted batch would be limited to a specific point in time based on a number of factors. But the big thing to remember is it is a point in time. Once the defect is found and steps are taken to rectify the issue the risk of harm is lowered back down to pre-defect levels. All that remains are the public's perception of the defect and the fear that exists in their minds.

Nobody including BE has denied this occurred except to question the test results and sourcing of the 200+ mg nic. BE has committed to making the necessary manufacturing corrections and improving their internal quality controls. This is my opinion which is worth what you all paid for it but continuing to rake this over the coals will do nothing more than to bring bad publicity to the vaping industry as a whole, give the ANTZ ammunition against us and potentially shut down businesses that are committed to supporting us.

I'm sorry I just don't feel this constant attack against the parent company is healthy for anyone involved and the way this is being handled is turning into nothing more than a bashing thread (along with the other threads open on the subject).

 

[tmcase]

Yes, I know that. He stated he had to work under a hood after he realized it was too strong not to.
Just saying...based on you saying that you wouldn't mind getting 200mg in error...ya might want to think about more safety gear before hand, rather then later.
lol. Purely hypothetical of course.

Oh, I get you. I misunderstood that you were talking about if mine turned out to be 200mg. Yes, that would be a problem that I hadn't thought about. Thanks.

 

[tmcase]

Tmcase, I really hope you are joking. 20% nicotine is a deadly poison. It's being sent via USPS in an innocent-looking padded envelope or a priority box (I'm not even going to discuss legal implications here)--what if that bottle breaks or leaks and injures an unsuspecting postal worker? Or somebody's family member or a pet?

Kurt has done magnificent work testing this stuff and informing the community. I hope and pray that our juice manufacturers and resellers take this incident as a warning and act accordingly.

What would you have me do, deliver it to him in person? He asked me to send it so I did. I'm sure that is how he is receiving all his samples.

 

[stravaigin]

Kurt thank you so much for all the time and effort you've put into this matter. I have four unopened bottles from batches 256 and 257 which I intend to flush unless it's of any use to you for further testing?

If it wasn't for ECF I'd probably be attempting my first ever DIY with this stuff Thanks guys

 

[Katya]

What would you have me do, deliver it to him in person? He asked me to send it so I did. I'm sure that is how he is receiving all his samples.

I would like you to think and hopefully realize that being in possession of a 20+% nicotine bottle shouldn't make you a happy camper. Under any circumstances. That's why I started my post with "I hope you are joking."

That's all.

 

[tmcase]

I would like you to think and hopefully realize that being in possession of a 20+% nicotine bottle shouldn't make you a happy camper. Under any circumstances. That's why I started my post with "I hope you are joking."

That's all.

I wasn't joking but at the time I said that I hadn't considered how I would handle 200mg of nic juice. But I sure as hell wouldn't dump it. There are safe ways to dilute it and that is what I'm considering now. Thanks for your concern though.

 

[rkayw]

I can honestly say yes I absolutely would because I do my research and understand how things like this happen and how companies handle them.

Let me explain why I would and would recommend that everyone else 'buy meat' from McDonalds. The tainted batch would be limited to a specific point in time based on a number of factors. But the big thing to remember is it is a point in time. Once the defect is found and steps are taken to rectify the issue the risk of harm is lowered back down to pre-defect levels. All that remains are the public's perception of the defect and the fear that exists in their minds.

Nobody including BE has denied this occurred except to question the test results and sourcing of the 200+ mg nic. BE has committed to making the necessary manufacturing corrections and improving their internal quality controls. This is my opinion which is worth what you all paid for it but continuing to rake this over the coals will do nothing more than to bring bad publicity to the vaping industry as a whole, give the ANTZ ammunition against us and potentially shut down businesses that are committed to supporting us.

I'm sorry I just don't feel this constant attack against the parent company is healthy for anyone involved and the way this is being handled is turning into nothing more than a bashing thread (along with the other threads open on the subject).

I may be wrong, but I think you are mistaken.

Brad has emphatically and repeatedly denied it, stating that it was impossible that 272 nic came from them.

 

[AzPlumber]

I can honestly say yes I absolutely would because I do my research and understand how things like this happen and how companies handle them.

Let me explain why I would and would recommend that everyone else 'buy meat' from McDonalds. The tainted batch would be limited to a specific point in time based on a number of factors. But the big thing to remember is it is a point in time. Once the defect is found and steps are taken to rectify the issue the risk of harm is lowered back down to pre-defect levels. All that remains are the public's perception of the defect and the fear that exists in their minds.

Nobody including BE has denied this occurred except to question the test results and sourcing of the 200+ mg nic. BE has committed to making the necessary manufacturing corrections and improving their internal quality controls. This is my opinion which is worth what you all paid for it but continuing to rake this over the coals will do nothing more than to bring bad publicity to the vaping industry as a whole, give the ANTZ ammunition against us and potentially shut down businesses that are committed to supporting us.

I'm sorry I just don't feel this constant attack against the parent company is healthy for anyone involved and the way this is being handled is turning into nothing more than a bashing thread (along with the other threads open on the subject).

Your example above is based on a supplier that has acknowledged a problem, tract down the source and contained it to "this point in time" you refer to. At this time I don't think your comparision applies to the BE situation.

btw I would eat at Pizza Hut just wouldn't drink the Pepsi

 

[bmwjen]

I have wondered about things like this since I first started vaping.
More recently i've been concerning myself with flavoring toxicity.
I bought from BE early on in my DIY days, I'm just glad that RTS came along & had nic extracted in the USA, & at a lower price.

I have never been happier that I DIY, & only buy from AVE & Ahlusion.

With a new juice vendor popping up every day, who knows who is using what in their mixes. Obviously the juice vendor would purchase in wholesale amounts & be sitting on a ton if they were to admit to using BE.......have to pull it,.......then reinvest in something safer. I'm sorta doubting that would happen. Afterall, they are a small time juice vendor & can't afford to waste the nic, they mix juice at their kitchen table.

I've said it before when I was concerned regarding flavoring, but it's time to ask vendors questions before hitting the purchase button. I'm willing to bet there are more people vaping pre-made juice made with BE nic, than what is DIY'ed & contains BE nic.

I hate to say this, but......I saw this, or something similar coming.

Box Elder needs to release a statement.

Vapers need to ask questions of their juice vendors.

I'm sick and tired of being on the end of a vendor's puppet strings, whether it be hardware, flavors, or nic. Vendors that use the vaping community as a guinea pig make my stomach turn.

 

[Switched]

VTTalk – Box Elder

 

[Lyndagayle]

Here is my thought on the speculation that a sample was sabotaged to put BE under.....Simply stated, ridiculous!!!! Everyone and I mean EVERYONE in the vaping community is very protective of their right to vape. All of us are borderline paranoid that a government entity could step in and either take this freedom away from us, or make it quite costly and difficult to obtain. Tainting a sample and bringing it to the forefront to be scrutinized is begging for undivine intervention to escalate. BE's, (or fill in the blank of any vendor's name here) demise would harm each and every one of us. Add the fact that more than one person is/has had problems with nic from the same batch # and it lessens the probability that this is nothing but a smear campaign. I think 99.9% of the people here never want to see any company have issues that affect our health and well being. If you do, I suggest you check yourself into the nearest psych ward and live out your remaining days where you belong. That's my 2 cents.

 

[Fernand]

@Boodle
I've looked for these threads and deleted / edited those I found. Any links to unregistered suppliers of materials of dubious quality should, as you suggest, be removed.

WAIT a minute. Are you saying you deleted advertising, or that you retroactively tampered with what people wrote about their own experiences and impressions? If the latter, that is the most capricious and autocratic act I've ever heard of on a web site. I may not be a fan of BE at this point, but I'm not ready to call in the book-burners either.

Are you saying that only "registered" suppliers of materials of unquestionable quality can be mentioned or recommended? Then I move that only registered suppliers can be accused or discussed, and hence this whole thread must be deleted.

It's OK to badmouth a vendor, speculate about their ethics, denigrate their business, all on the basis of a handful of samples (when they send out thousands), well, freedom of speech sometimes tolerates defamation, and sometimes such denigration is well-deserved, but if in addition it's not OK to report positive experience and endorse them, and the administrator will come and edit your posts, that's beyond outrageous.

 

[salemgold]

Well I for one would certainly hate to think that a new vaper would be able to find good reviews here on ECF about a company that is thought to have such a serious problem. I do understand what you are saying but I certainly understand why ECF would feel the need to remove any advertising for a company that is highly suspected to have such a serious and possibly deadly problem on its hands.

 

[chaos-7]

Yes, I read that part in the email to and was quite inflamed. I even reread it several times to make sure I was reading it properly.

The other part about the samples being tampered with though just doesn't sit too well with me. While it is very easy to dilute the nicotine solution adding nicotine to the solution would be very difficult. Basically one would have to attain pure nicotine or at least a 50% nicotine solution in order to increase the concentration of nicotine in the solution.

It just seems far more difficult and dangerous to skew the numbers high than low. While it is not impossible I find it It improbable.

It is really quite easy to get pure nicotine.

 

[markfm]

It can be done, but is out of bounds on ecf, since that stuff really doesn't belong with amateurs (including me).