Houston, we have a problem...BE nic titration results

[kinabaloo]

I disagree with the statement that “I don't mean to dismiss the BE case as being trivial, it's not. Fortunately at the concentrations offered the net result is a toxic, not lethal.”

According to Wikipedia Nicotine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia a lethal dose can be 40-60mg for non smokers and 80-120mg for smokers… Depending on the weight of the person. I’m sure If you ingest it, its less lethal because of the stomach acid counter acting the base in the nicotine, and less gets in your bleed stream. And yes if you vape 40-60mg you will get sick before you get to the lethal doses.

But what if your DIY’er making liquid, and you spill some on you. If you soak just 0.5ml of 270mg nic into your skin, that IS lethal. Add to that the fumes you will get while working with it. And if you THINK your are working with 50-100mg, your less likely to be as causios than if you KNEW you were working with 270mg. I personally only work with <50mg nic when doing DYI, but I did work with a higher mg batch by mistake a while ago, and started to feel the effects just by the fumes cutting it down.

Just a small refinement - I think ingestion would be the worst case because a lot of it would be absorbed before reaching the stomach (and i would guess faster than on the skin) and the throat swelling alone might be sufficiently serious to cause death.

 

[markfm]

I'm curious to see what results I get with my home test kit, non-BE product nic base, it arrived last night. I'm confident that everything I have is solid, but I want to see how results on testing nic base vs. testing mixed eliquid come out, start to see what differences pop up due to the flavorings I use. I've got four in-use bottles of 60 mg/ml, plus a batch of DIY liquids. I understand the +/- 10% margin, no problem there, just want to get a feel for how it works.

 

[kinabaloo]

I'm curious to see what results I get with my home test kit, non-BE product nic base, it arrived last night. I'm confident that everything I have is solid, but I want to see how results on testing nic base vs. testing mixed eliquid come out, start to see what differences pop up due to the flavorings I use. I've got four in-use bottles of 60 mg/ml, plus a batch of DIY liquids. I understand the +/- 10% margin, no problem there, just want to get a feel for how it works.

I'm really interested to see what you find wrt any difference that various flavoring types might make.

 

[mjradik]

Just a small refinement - I think ingestion would be the worst case because a lot of it would be absorbed before reaching the stomach (and i would guess faster than on the skin) and the throat swelling alone might be sufficiently serious to cause death.

Forgot about that. Yes your mouth 'liner' and throat would obsrob more than skin I think. Sorry I retract my first statement on injestion. But for the comment he made about the nic being in Beef, and not many people getting sick, I'm sure that was because when the nic was in the beef it did not come in contact with the mouth or thoat that much, and just got injested.

 

[retird]

So, did your vendors state they test their nic base and test the juice that they mix from the base to assure that you, the consumer, receive verifiable nic juice?

I have had almost instant replies from the vendors I contacted. I would be very concerned if your vendor has not replied, or responds vaguely.

 

[Quick1]

Just a small refinement - I think ingestion would be the worst case because a lot of it would be absorbed before reaching the stomach (and i would guess faster than on the skin) and the throat swelling alone might be sufficiently serious to cause death.

Why do you think and guess this? Do you have some chemistry or medical credentials/background? Or direct experience to base this on? You maybe be completely right for all I know but it sounds like you are just speculating out loud based on ... what?

Things are bad enough. People are alarmed, worried, anxious and looking for factual information. What purpose does this serve?

 

[kinabaloo]

Forgot about that. Yes your mouth 'liner' and throat would obsrob more than skin I think. Sorry I retract my first statement on injestion. But for the comment he made about the nic being in Beef, and not many people getting sick, I'm sure that was because when the nic was in the beef it did not come in contact with the mouth or thoat that much, and just got injested.

I see; you're probably right there.

 

[kinabaloo]

Why do you think and guess this? Do you have some chemistry or medical credentials/background? Or direct experience to base this on? You maybe be completely right for all I know but it sounds like you are just speculating out loud based on ... what?

Things are bad enough. People are alarmed, worried, anxious and looking for factual information. What purpose does this serve?

Because the external skin is a lot thicker. Either is dangerous - prolonged skin contact or swallowing the liquid. That's the fact. I can't offer some kind of comforting words. There should be a recall.

And remember that some people's tolerance to the nic wll le lower than others.

 

[retird]

Quality Controls need to be in place. By raising awareness about this issue, it brings it home to all of us that something may need to happend at the manufacturer and vendor level to assure tighter controls. I believe the "supply chain" has an obligation to the consumer to have proper controls and safeguards

 

[Quick1]

I can't offer some kind of comforting words.

That's ok. When I asked if you had chemistry, medical, or direct experience it was a rehtorical question

 

[Katya]

That is absorbed all at once. Nic metabolizes pretty fast. OTOH, a few drops of that 272 mg on the forearm or other exposed skin and you don't know about it, and you will be getting very sick. Lethal for that stuff would be about 3 drops swallowed. And nic death is not pretty. very messy. The low-level poisoning that some have gotten from the other tested batches was unpleasant enough: vomiting, loose bowels, sweats, etc.

Above are the facts that we all need to know.

An unsuspecting person in possession of 27% nicotine liquid is in grave danger. That's all.

No need to embellish or speculate.

There is a difference between warning people and flaming or creating mass hysteria.

 

[rkayw]

(not directed at any one person...except those that refuse to stay on topic as our mod has asked!)

Dead horse beatings are tiresome. Do you really need to continue a tit for tat debate about nic dangers, needs for recall, etc. just so you can have the last word on it?
It is serving no purpose at this point and is helping no one. Are you trying to get this thread closed/locked?! That would be terribly disrespectful to Kurt, first and foremost.

Thank you Kurt for everything you have done and continue to do for this community!

I will read for updates on further test results, specific info about BE, and other pertinent important info...
Everything else has been beaten past reason.

 

[Cyberpixie]

I don't know if anyone has said this yet, but over on UKvapers forum there is a post that someone got an email from BE about sending back the liquid (rather than a recall). Info here for anyone who is interested: ATTENTION WARNING - UK Vapers - Page 3

 

[kinabaloo]

I don't know if anyone has said this yet, but over on UKvapers forum there is a post that someone got an email from BE about sending back the liquid (rather than a recall). Info here for anyone who is interested: ATTENTION WARNING - UK Vapers - Page 3

The mail just says 'if not satisfied'. No warning.

 

[Cyberpixie]

The mail just says 'if not satisfied'. No warning.

Exactly. He's still not taking any responsibility in the matter.

 

[kinabaloo]

(not directed at any one person...except those that refuse to stay on topic as our mod has asked!)

Dead horse beatings are tiresome. Do you really need to continue a tit for tat debate about nic dangers, needs for recall, etc. just so you can have the last word on it?
It is serving no purpose at this point and is helping no one. Are you trying to get this thread closed/locked?! That would be terribly disrespectful to Kurt, first and foremost.

Thank you Kurt for everything you have done and continue to do for this community!

I will read for updates on further test results, specific info about BE, and other pertinent important info...
Everything else has been beaten past reason.

I'm sure Kurt would agree that these high concentrations are dangerous. Posts that suggest otherwise need to be refuted.

But since they are indeed tiresome, I will not respond to any more such nonsense. This is not because I will be told by you what is important or relevant but I think it is a derailing attempt.

 

[Kevin littell]

Well, let me re-state the obvious.


If a consumer is paying for a product and the supplier is only giving 1/2 of what they are charging for there is a serious QC problem.

Simple answer is to just quit buying from the Supplier. If I was the CEO for Box Elder I'd be looking for a new job.


If the same supplier is also shipping out 2x the product being puchased AND the product had the potential to KILL someone I'd be shutting my mouth and speaking only thru lawyers. (while refreshing my resume and looking for another job.)


Either way, as a consumer , theres no way I'll ever buy any juices now from BE or anyone that will not confirm that they do not use BE products. Ever. Period.

So, I'll be voting with my wallet.

As for BE's quality control, If I was the CEO of BE and havent decided to put the company out of business right now and reopen under a new brand and managment I'd be screaming at the top of the mountain 3 simple things..... NEW LAB PROCEDURES!!!! RECALLL!!!!! WE'RE DOING XXXXX to insure this never happens again!!!


I dont hear any of that happening..... RTS you now have a dedicated new customer.....Dont fark up!

 

[GoodDog]

Cyberpixie, thanks for the link. In that forum they posted a link back here on the safety of disposing of nicotine. http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/general-e-liquid-discussion/143090-how-safely-dispose-e-liquid.html

 

[sjohnson]

(Edited) - wrong thread. I need moar coffee!

 

[rkayw]

I'm sure Kurt would agree that these high concentrations are dangerous. Posts that suggest otherwise need to be refuted.

But since they are indeed tiresome, I will not respond to any more such nonsense. This is not because I will be told by you what is important or relevant but I think it is a derailing attempt.

Show me (pm me) where any one has said "it's not dangerous." Any one at all. I would really like to see that statement.