Maybe start another thread to bad mouth 'em?
Houston, we have a problem...BE nic titration results
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Maybe start another thread to bad mouth 'em?
Perhaps partly a labelling error, could be.
The mistakes were horrendous! But it is what has happened since that is really terrible - this cannot be called a mistake - the not being responsible and taking urgent action to correct things. With time, they could have come through this; but it's getting beyond that as time passes and there will be no way back if they don't act fast.
In one sense it's just 24 hours, but in truth the matter has been ongoing for many days already, perhaps weeks.
I'm outta words ...
Right now there is an accident waiting to happen. We were all newbies once we all sucked in liquid from overfilling carts and got it all over our hands ...
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Has anyone here bought bad niquid from Lu, Violet, or Blacksmith Pro? Ummm... didn't think so...
Maybe start another thread to bad mouth 'em?
Not worth it. Ignore them. I am. People can treat others however they want, but I am staying focused on getting data and the facts as I measure them.
He did?? I don't think I got it, or else its gotten buried in my emailer. Oh, wow, no wonder he was so disoriented and panicked. He really screwed up on that one...even put it in writing and sent it to all his customers? Poor guy, I would hate to be in his head right now. Truly, he needs to find other work. This CEO thing does not suit him.
I guess the good news is he is going to have a lot more time for hunting trips now!!
So more stupid: Evidently two I tested from 257 which were labeled as 48 mg (78 mg) and 36 mg (51 mg) were both exchanges after an initial 48 mg seemed way too strong and was returned. All three were from the same lot 257. Wow, just wow.
It was actually first reported in September believe it or not.
He did?? I don't think I got it, or else its gotten buried in my emailer. Oh, wow, no wonder he was so disoriented and panicked. He really screwed up on that one...even put it in writing and sent it to all his customers? Poor guy, I would hate to be in his head right now. Truly, he needs to find other work. This CEO thing does not suit him.
I guess the good news is he is going to have a lot more time for hunting trips now!!
Right! lol That letter is posted here a few pages back. It was sent out via email
On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 9:26 PM, Customer Service wrote:
Hello Everyone,
Due to recent independent titration analyses we have decided to reveal our own internal methods of testing and quality control as well as our own independent analysis of liquids that have been diluted before they have arrived at our distribution facility. As I have stated before, we dilute pure nicotine down to just over 10% strength before it arrives at our distribution facility. At that point we have an independent GC/MS done to give us an accurate reading of the product ingredients and strengths. The diluted product comes in at about 11 to 13% in strength. We then we do a final adjustment to bring the product to an actual 10% strength. The reason for this is "if the product were to come in weaker than the target 10%", we would have no way of increasing the strength due to the fact that we only work with 10% strength or lower in the distribution facility.
We admit that mistakes could be made in labeling which could result in a product labeled as 48 mg/ml strength and actually be 100 mg/ml. Even a mistake like this could be dangerous and if we have made this type of mistake then all we could do is offer our humblest apologies and / or.a replacement product. A product that is testing at at 272 mg/ml and labeled at 100 mg/ml is more than dangerous, it could be deadly. In all of our analyses ( internal or independent) over the last two years we have never received a diluted batch for testing that was over 14%. We test every diluted batch and we will now post the latest independent tests online every time a new batch is run.
For clarity we will label each independent test that will match a lot number on every bottle that goes out.
Furthermore on some occasions we may run out of nicotine during a big sale at which point we may use products from other US vendors. Due to this we will also be posting random independent tests on other US vendors as well.
Please look for our current independent GC/MS reports at http://www.boxelderchemicalsupply.com/110811pgtest.pdf
With that being said, we feel that this issue is starting to appear more like a smear campaign against our company and less like a valid scientific exploration of the products we all use and vape. We appreciate the support from all of our customers and assure you all that we are.extremely confident in our own internal safety procedures as well as the credibility of our independent testing labs and the quality of US vendors that we may utilize from time to time. So confident that I am willing to sign my name to this message and not hide behind an obscure username on a forum or the posting of a forum user.that has.never returned to respond to an original post.
Due to the fact that an unscrupulous company or individual could easily take our labeled product and increase or decrease the strength in an effort to disparage our hard earned name and reputation, we will be converting to a tamper resistant bottle for all of our nicotine products and we will only be responding to forum posted tests from credible laboratory testing facilities that will verify that they received what appears to be an un-opened un-tampered bottle of our product. We will not be responding to chemistry students who possibly are on the correct and intelligent path towards testing a given substance but who may also be unknowingly party to the destruction of one company for the benefit of another.
.
We realize that there are many issues associated with this business and we want to do our part to provide a new level of transparency to this whole industry...
.
Sincerely,
.
.
Brad Bacher
Box Elder Chemical Supply
888-962-5877
.
Hello Everyone,
Due to recent independent titration analyses we have decided to reveal our own internal methods of testing and quality control as well as our own independent analysis of liquids that have been diluted before they have arrived at our distribution facility. As I have stated before, we dilute pure nicotine down to just over 10% strength before it arrives at our distribution facility. At that point we have an independent GC/MS done to give us an accurate reading of the product ingredients and strengths. The diluted product comes in at about 11 to 13% in strength. We then we do a final adjustment to bring the product to an actual 10% strength. The reason for this is "if the product were to come in weaker than the target 10%", we would have no way of increasing the strength due to the fact that we only work with 10% strength or lower in the distribution facility.
We admit that mistakes could be made in labeling which could result in a product labeled as 48 mg/ml strength and actually be 100 mg/ml. Even a mistake like this could be dangerous and if we have made this type of mistake then all we could do is offer our humblest apologies and / or.a replacement product. A product that is testing at at 272 mg/ml and labeled at 100 mg/ml is more than dangerous, it could be deadly. In all of our analyses ( internal or independent) over the last two years we have never received a diluted batch for testing that was over 14%. We test every diluted batch and we will now post the latest independent tests online every time a new batch is run.
For clarity we will label each independent test that will match a lot number on every bottle that goes out.
Furthermore on some occasions we may run out of nicotine during a big sale at which point we may use products from other US vendors. Due to this we will also be posting random independent tests on other US vendors as well.
Please look for our current independent GC/MS reports at http://www.boxelderchemicalsupply.com/110811pgtest.pdf
With that being said, we feel that this issue is starting to appear more like a smear campaign against our company and less like a valid scientific exploration of the products we all use and vape. We appreciate the support from all of our customers and assure you all that we are.extremely confident in our own internal safety procedures as well as the credibility of our independent testing labs and the quality of US vendors that we may utilize from time to time. So confident that I am willing to sign my name to this message and not hide behind an obscure username on a forum or the posting of a forum user.that has.never returned to respond to an original post.
Due to the fact that an unscrupulous company or individual could easily take our labeled product and increase or decrease the strength in an effort to disparage our hard earned name and reputation, we will be converting to a tamper resistant bottle for all of our nicotine products and we will only be responding to forum posted tests from credible laboratory testing facilities that will verify that they received what appears to be an un-opened un-tampered bottle of our product. We will not be responding to chemistry students who possibly are on the correct and intelligent path towards testing a given substance but who may also be unknowingly party to the destruction of one company for the benefit of another.
.
We realize that there are many issues associated with this business and we want to do our part to provide a new level of transparency to this whole industry...
.
Sincerely,
.
.
Brad Bacher
Box Elder Chemical Supply
888-962-5877
.
Here is a post from another thread of the letter.
Guess I was a hair slow. LOL
Someone bought 48 mg, it was too strong, they sent it back for exchange, and got 48 mg and 36 mg, which were tested by me as too strong. Same lot.
Thank you Kurt for your excellent work. I have only been into diy for about a month, I bought a diy kit here on the classifieds and it came with a bottle of box elder. I have been reading this thread daily and when I saw the lot numbers posted today I decided I should check my bottle. Here is what the label states:
120 ML LevoNic
Nicotine Liquid
48 MG/ML 4.8% W/V
id 120 048VG
Diluted with 100% Vegetable Glycerin Lot 257 Exp. 05/27/12
So is this from the affected lot(s)? I have mixed 20 or so 3ml batches down to 10 or 12 mg/ml and it has not made me sick, it does not taste different/stronger than vendor made 12mg I have. I have an emergency bottle of 24mg boba's in case I really have a nic fit and when I vape an atty of that it gives me a head rush. This is not doing that, but it has me worried I am not at the correct mg/ml. I am trying to cut nic down gradually, so do not want it to be higher by mixing error due to mislabeling. It has the slightest smell to it, kind of musty but not as strong as fishy and it has the slightest tint to it when decanted into a clear plastic bottle, not real dark/tan but just slightly off of clear.
What should I do in this situation? Thanks in advance and thanks to you all who are helping make vapers safer.
120 ML LevoNic
Nicotine Liquid
48 MG/ML 4.8% W/V
id 120 048VG
Diluted with 100% Vegetable Glycerin Lot 257 Exp. 05/27/12
So is this from the affected lot(s)? I have mixed 20 or so 3ml batches down to 10 or 12 mg/ml and it has not made me sick, it does not taste different/stronger than vendor made 12mg I have. I have an emergency bottle of 24mg boba's in case I really have a nic fit and when I vape an atty of that it gives me a head rush. This is not doing that, but it has me worried I am not at the correct mg/ml. I am trying to cut nic down gradually, so do not want it to be higher by mixing error due to mislabeling. It has the slightest smell to it, kind of musty but not as strong as fishy and it has the slightest tint to it when decanted into a clear plastic bottle, not real dark/tan but just slightly off of clear.
What should I do in this situation? Thanks in advance and thanks to you all who are helping make vapers safer.
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Pretty sure that Kurt is saying that the original customers received their nic from BE that they ordered as 48 mg nic. It seemed way too high to them so they returned to BE for exchange. What Kurt tested was the product that they got for exchange for the nic that seemed too high.
This is just almost beyond comprehension. So they never took it seriously from the beginning and sent the same nic back out that the problem was reported with. WOW
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