Houston, we have a problem...BE nic titration results

[kinabaloo]

The recall is good news all round. Certainly for the industry. I think those here with the expertise would be happy to help out with identifying solutions and suggesting improvements if these are requested (Kurt and others with chemistry / QC knowledge).

 

[Kurt]

I was just quoting from the instructions :

"When adding the acid and mixing, the color will go from blue to bluish-green to green, to yellowish-green, to yellow with still a tint of green, and when you've reached the 'magic drop', it will turn all yellow."

So it is the middle color we are looking for - just to be quite clear ? Normally in titraton it is.

Is this the same person/kit that I put in my signature?

Oops! I just looked at my curves. the equivalence point is about pH = 6, and the pKa of BB is 7.1, so I take that back: it should be JUST yellow, so the kit is right on this.

Thanks! I just learned something too! Sometimes you DONT go to the halfway point.

 

[GrimmGreen]

Gourmet vapor and Honeyville for sure. He said there were a lot of others in my interview with him on Cozzicon's show, if I recall correctly. Cozzicon might know more.

Thanks Kurt, It would be great if we could get a list of vendors, Not to throw them under the bus or anything, Just to make people aware.

 

[AzPlumber]

Maybe because that is the timeframe of the DOPs of the ones I tested. I do think there were questions before that, but these are the samples that were sent to me. I have not received samples from earlier or later as yet.

Brad is using your test results as a basis for his recall? Thought he had his own Chemist?

 

[Kurt]

The recall is good news all round. Certainly for the industry. I think those here with the expertise would be happy to help out with identifying solutions and suggesting improvements if these are requested (Kurt and others with chemistry / QC knowledge).

I offered, and also sent my support of his decision. It has to be very hard being him right now, and I do hope he is able to solve this and come back even better than before.

I think this is a watershed day for vaping. The power of chemistry in the hands of the public is a beautiful thing to me. It was an easy thing for me to run the tests, and they clearly had impact. But for me to see the general public learning to take control themselves in this dangerous hobby is truly priceless.

 

[Katya]

Thanks Kurt, It would be great if we could get a list of vendors, Not to throw them under the bus or anything, Just to make people aware.

Such list does not exist, AFAIK.

However, I wonder if the recall will also be extended to all the nicotine sold to juice makers/suppliers.... It has to be, methinks. And if it does, oh, what a mess.... How are they going to find all that nic and what it was used for? And will the juice suppliers now have to do their own recalls?

 

[kinabaloo]

Brad is using your test results as a basis for his recall? Thought he had his own Chemist?

Maybe fired

Ok, last jibe.

It's time to work together for the good of the vaping community (industry included). As long as things progress, let's be positive.

 

[cozzicon]

Thanks Kurt, It would be great if we could get a list of vendors, Not to throw them under the bus or anything, Just to make people aware.

PM sent. As a reference I do not currently have a list.

 

[Kurt]

Brad is using your test results as a basis for his recall? Thought he had his own Chemist?

well, I doubt he will admit that, but given the concerns raised in Cozzicon's show, by me, Coz and the general public, I would bet his counsel advised that this is the best course.

the fact that my tests also validated other kit tests also probably meant that he was outgunned on this. that and the whole world was watching. It was the only option for him, really. And the 272 mg nic being out in public meant that he had more problems than just ripping people off. I sincerely hope he tracks down whoever bought from that lot. It would not at all surprise me if we find out that people have already been hospitalized. As I was told, only about 12% of vapers actually are on forums.

 

[Kurt]

0.12N strength H2SO4 (the acid - weak sulphuric acid)

BB is Bromothymol Blue (the pH indicator / color)

The better term would be dilute sulfuric acid. It is a strong acid. Nic is a weak base, no matter the concentration. Picky, maybe, but we are all chemists tonight!

 

[mauzey]

You can bet your bottom dollar that no flavored juice vendors that use BE are checking their nic level, or they themselves would have sussed out the suspect nic base. I can only assume they are using the 100 mg/ml label and doing the mix math like the rest of us DIYers.

 

[Paradisevap]

you procedure sounds good ....... don't know about the swirling while dripping

 

[kinabaloo]

The better term would be dilute sulfuric acid. It is a strong acid. Nic is a weak base, no matter the concentration. Picky, maybe, but we are all chemists tonight!

Good call !

pKa is strength of the acid; pH the acidity of the solution.

 

[AzPlumber]

Maybe fired

Ok, last jibe.

It's time to work together for the good of the vaping community (industry included). As long as things progress, let's be positive.

I'm all for getting this headed in a positive direction. Just concerned about the unknowns. I would just warn anyone with BE nic that is not included in the recall to proceed with caution.

 

[Boodle]

Just saw the email from BE and sighed with relief. I'm proud of Brad for doing the recall. Much gratitude to Kurt for his leadership, hard work and laser focus on gathering and communicating accurate data.

Hope to read silly, fun posts from this crew again soon as we're vaping happily and worry-free.

 

[Kurt]

For what its worth, and I won't share it, but I just got a short but very nice email response back from Brad after I emailed him about his decision, and offering my professional assistance if he needs it. I am touched, truly. I genuinely wish him well, and hope things work out for him.

I do not want any vendors thrown under the bus. I want it to be a really great bus, that gets us all where we want to be, driven by both vendors and customers.

 

[ambientech]

I picked up one of the test kits after reading the first thread on BE while researching diy. I have yet to mix anything up yet but did try to test several pre-mixed juices I got from different vendors. Only 2 out of 10 did it work for me. The other 8 would turn yellow as soon as I added the indicator no matter how many drops I added. Most of them are clear or a light yellow. Guess there is something in the flavoring causing this ?

 

[kinabaloo]

I picked up one of the test kits after reading the first thread on BE while researching diy. I have yet to mix anything up yet but did try to test several pre-mixed juices I got from different vendors. Only 2 out of 10 did it work for me. The other 8 would turn yellow as soon as I added the indicator no matter how many drops I added. Most of them are clear or a light yellow. Guess there is something in the flavoring causing this ?

Sounds likely.

Could you list the 2 that worked ok and the 8 that didnt; and which vendor (some vendors acidify all their juices a bit as it diminishes the smell of nicotine).

+++

Sorry from me if I ...... off anyone these last few days. It was a bit tense for all of us to get the balance right and know the best thing to say. Now the cloud of uncertainty has lifted, I realise I was more stressed than I knew at the time.

 

[Kurt]

I picked up one of the test kits after reading the first thread on BE while researching diy. I have yet to mix anything up yet but did try to test several pre-mixed juices I got from different vendors. Only 2 out of 10 did it work for me. The other 8 would turn yellow as soon as I added the indicator no matter how many drops I added. Most of them are clear or a light yellow. Guess there is something in the flavoring causing this ?

Depends on the flavoring. Immediate yellow means little to no nic, or else the flavoring is already lowering the pH. What flavors? Citrus? Cinnamon?

And yes, what nic? Vermont Vapor lowers the pH of theirs with citric acid.

 

[tmcase]

Oops! I just looked at my curves. the equivalence point is about pH = 6, and the pKa of BB is 7.1, so I take that back: it should be JUST yellow, so the kit is right on this.

Thanks! I just learned something too! Sometimes you DONT go to the halfway point.

So the results I got should be correct since I stopped at yellow?