How Confident Are We That These Are Actually Safe?
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I just have to bring up that PG and glycerin are used as a carrier for medication for nebulizers. These are pretty damn similar in the fact that they are carrying a chemical to your lungs via vaporized pg. Nebulizers have been tested extensively and are used to treat asthmatics. Nebulizers can be perscribed for multiple sessions a day over the course of several years to treat severe asthmatic patients.
If doctors are using these sorts of treatments to assist people with existing respitory issues, i cant fathom that they are doing a whole lot of harm to your lungs. Also all of the arguement that the levels of consumption are going to negatively effect us, those are VERY high levels of consumption vs our couple of mL intake a day. Every time you see vapors when you exhale, you have to conclude that you are exhaling quite a lot of the pg as well. Perhaps some research on the nebulizer treatments and the possible side effects will aid in the truth of impact involving long term inhalation of vaporized pg. There have been plenty of studies done and i have looked over few of the existing reports, all of them seem to have minimal negative impact, unless the patient is diabetic.
If doctors are using these sorts of treatments to assist people with existing respitory issues, i cant fathom that they are doing a whole lot of harm to your lungs. Also all of the arguement that the levels of consumption are going to negatively effect us, those are VERY high levels of consumption vs our couple of mL intake a day. Every time you see vapors when you exhale, you have to conclude that you are exhaling quite a lot of the pg as well. Perhaps some research on the nebulizer treatments and the possible side effects will aid in the truth of impact involving long term inhalation of vaporized pg. There have been plenty of studies done and i have looked over few of the existing reports, all of them seem to have minimal negative impact, unless the patient is diabetic.
Yea i wonder about that too, johnson creek is in wisconsin, there are no tobacco farms there, so what i think is they get it from china in the 36 mg form and cut it down to what they sell and put it in there own bottles.. but i dont know.
crushed up baby fetus' as a filler, lmao probly u know they do have a overpopulation problem lol
Can you cite your source on this? I worked with neutralizers for asthmatics and and its just Oxygen and albuterol .
Don't medical nebulizers all use ultrasonic or pressure spray mechanisms,
don't think any 'evaporate' the PG/VG/ingredient with a hot coil do they ?
This is the aspect of e-cigs that appeals least to me,
the whole VG/acrolein thing, & possibly other heating related chemical changes.
The atomizers are simply too randomly heated -
depending on e-cig model / coil&wick-dirt state / already hot / draw strength etc.
the temp actually experienced by e-liquid must vary dramatically.
Really wish we could get a piezo atomizer created, I'd feel a lot happier.
My use of e-cigs is definately reducing after a really great start,
now back on 15/20 analogs a day
don't think any 'evaporate' the PG/VG/ingredient with a hot coil do they ?
This is the aspect of e-cigs that appeals least to me,
the whole VG/acrolein thing, & possibly other heating related chemical changes.
The atomizers are simply too randomly heated -
depending on e-cig model / coil&wick-dirt state / already hot / draw strength etc.
the temp actually experienced by e-liquid must vary dramatically.
Really wish we could get a piezo atomizer created, I'd feel a lot happier.
My use of e-cigs is definately reducing after a really great start,
now back on 15/20 analogs a day
I saw the post a few days back and really did NOT want to read it, cos, I just didn't wanna, I wasn't sure what I would read, so I just ignored it
Then I broke down and said, what the hey. thinking, okay maybe this gut knows something
During my read I am shaking my head in total agreement, THEN
it dawned on me
Back in the day, when I was slightly addicted to powder, .......
for those not sure what I was refering to,
I would snort stuff, bought on the streets of NY, and GOD didnt even know what was in that stuff
Then when my addiction started getting just a little out of hand
and I would go thru a truckload in an evening, AND I would crush up asprin just for the bump If I dropped even a twinkle on the floor, I was on my knees, snorting carpet, and that somehow didnt kill me
so I figured IM GOOD
The amount of damage so many of us have already done to our souls. by the time someone figures if vaping is good or no good, I will be long DEAD
40oz, I was just researching this the other day, and I THINK you're close but not quite right. I am not an expert here, so if you know information I don't have, please point me to a source I can cite the correct information from in turn.
As I understand it, most asthma inhalers use water as a base, not PG, although relatively small amounts of PG is frequently added since it's been proven to result in greater amounts of the solution becoming aerosolized.
Currently, though, a vaporized PG based nebulizer is being studied for at least one respritory medication, Cyclosporine, because it does not mix with water. All study results which have been released are favorable, as far as I am aware.
"These preclinical studies demonstrate the safety of aerosolized cyclosporine in propylene glycol and support its continued clinical investigation in patients undergoing allogeneic lung transplantation."
Mary Ann Liebert, Inc. - Journal of Aerosol Medicine - 20(4):417
Hey, if it's safe enough for the guy wih a lung transplant, I don't see why I oughta worry.
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IMO if you are THAT worried, then go to the doctor and get a nicotine inhaler (nicotrol inhaler) , ya know the ones that look like a mini tampon.
Those Nicotine Ihalers are real safe they have 10mg of pure nictoine in them. Can't beat that now can you.
I've already said in more than one post (i'm not going to search for them) what my Doctor's reaction was and i saw him again last week and my blood pressure levels are now lower than they have ever been in all the time i have been seeing him (about nine years).
He has cut my medication down by 4mg a day because i don't need as much as i was taking now, and he's very happy i have stopped smoking. He's seen and examined my Penstyle and we have discussed it and he say's there is nothing in my Blood Samples or Urine Samples that give him any cause for alarm and if there were he would tell me to stop. He said to "keep on doing what your doing because it's far better than Smoking"
I was just thinking today that the only evidence we could give Authorities about the healthier alternative of Vaping was "anecdotal".
Would someones Medical Records which show a marked improvement of their Medical Condition after 9 months of Vaping be taken more seriously?
Off course my Doctor is a complete idiot.
Why do i get the feeling you have come here with the sole intent to say the e-cig is not safe ?
This is not the only thread where you have said the same thing.
Your not the only one either. We seem to have been infiltrated this last month by people who just want to say negative things about the e-cig.
Could it be because "journalists" are reading through this forum looking for Negative and "Scare" posts that they can "quote"
He has cut my medication down by 4mg a day because i don't need as much as i was taking now, and he's very happy i have stopped smoking. He's seen and examined my Penstyle and we have discussed it and he say's there is nothing in my Blood Samples or Urine Samples that give him any cause for alarm and if there were he would tell me to stop. He said to "keep on doing what your doing because it's far better than Smoking"
I was just thinking today that the only evidence we could give Authorities about the healthier alternative of Vaping was "anecdotal".
Would someones Medical Records which show a marked improvement of their Medical Condition after 9 months of Vaping be taken more seriously?
Off course my Doctor is a complete idiot.
Why do i get the feeling you have come here with the sole intent to say the e-cig is not safe ?
This is not the only thread where you have said the same thing.
Your not the only one either. We seem to have been infiltrated this last month by people who just want to say negative things about the e-cig.
Could it be because "journalists" are reading through this forum looking for Negative and "Scare" posts that they can "quote"
Deewall, were getting some strange people on this fourm, either they are real dumb (determined to stay that way) , or they just want to make trouble.
They don't even know that e-liquid is made with pure nicotine made in this country. I would buy some and make my own juice but don't have a business license and they don't sell to just anyone.
They can use the internet but can't seem to find anything of importance and they are not adding anything new to the subjuct. i don't miind them asking questions, but they make statements that are just plain off the wall.
All three (3) of my doctors must be idiots. They think I an addicted to nicotine not sugar. and they think my health is much better. LOL. Been vaping since June 2008. Show me a woman over sixty with a blood pressure of 112/76 that used to have high blood pressure. I bet she don't smoke. It has been low every since I started vaping.
They don't even know that e-liquid is made with pure nicotine made in this country. I would buy some and make my own juice but don't have a business license and they don't sell to just anyone.
They can use the internet but can't seem to find anything of importance and they are not adding anything new to the subjuct. i don't miind them asking questions, but they make statements that are just plain off the wall.
All three (3) of my doctors must be idiots. They think I an addicted to nicotine not sugar. and they think my health is much better. LOL. Been vaping since June 2008. Show me a woman over sixty with a blood pressure of 112/76 that used to have high blood pressure. I bet she don't smoke. It has been low every since I started vaping.
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Ive been talking to my chem professor about this since i started with ecigs. He is asthmatic and explained that his treatments used PG as a solvent for delivery of his meds. He sent me a couple of articles
Pediatric Pulmonology
Volume 13 Issue 4, Pages 209- 214
Published Online: 19 Nov 2005
Copyright 2009 Wiley-Liss, Inc, A Wiley Company
First site is from my college directory and requires an account, i ref'ed the document in case it was able to be located elsewhere on the internet. Both of these sources do note that jet gas and ultrasonic delivery are used, but that propylene glycol and other water based solvents are used with nebulizers. The second link actually claims that the alcohols, (ethanol and glycol ) are in some cases better than the ultrasonic and jet delivery.
More results of propylene glycol being used as a vehicle for delivery of asthmatic treatment via nebulizers.
Practical handbook of nebulizer therapy
By Jacob Boe, B. Ronan O'Driscoll, John Hugh Dennis
Second source claims that propylene glycol was more tolerant a vehicle for drug delivery than ethanol, though the ethanol had better absorption as mentioned in an earlier site. The propylene glycol replaced ethanol in cases that there was coughing due to lung irritation.
Again this was brought to my attention through discussion of ecigs with my chem prof who has a doctrine in chemistry. He immediately got interested when i said that propylene glycol was the vehicle of delivery for the vaporizers. Hope this helps, if i can find a way to link from my schools electronic library, i can link a few journals that had more info. None of these sources contain toxicology reports unfortunately, but i hope they are helpful as they mention the PG being used for nebulizer treatments.
I removed the broken links. I think there was a copy write problem as they were from an electronic database that requires login. You can search for these publications none the less, and if searching through pages seems daunting, simply search for PG on your browser.
Pediatric Pulmonology
Volume 13 Issue 4, Pages 209- 214
Published Online: 19 Nov 2005
Copyright 2009 Wiley-Liss, Inc, A Wiley Company
First site is from my college directory and requires an account, i ref'ed the document in case it was able to be located elsewhere on the internet. Both of these sources do note that jet gas and ultrasonic delivery are used, but that propylene glycol and other water based solvents are used with nebulizers. The second link actually claims that the alcohols, (ethanol and glycol ) are in some cases better than the ultrasonic and jet delivery.
More results of propylene glycol being used as a vehicle for delivery of asthmatic treatment via nebulizers.
Practical handbook of nebulizer therapy
By Jacob Boe, B. Ronan O'Driscoll, John Hugh Dennis
Second source claims that propylene glycol was more tolerant a vehicle for drug delivery than ethanol, though the ethanol had better absorption as mentioned in an earlier site. The propylene glycol replaced ethanol in cases that there was coughing due to lung irritation.
Again this was brought to my attention through discussion of ecigs with my chem prof who has a doctrine in chemistry. He immediately got interested when i said that propylene glycol was the vehicle of delivery for the vaporizers. Hope this helps, if i can find a way to link from my schools electronic library, i can link a few journals that had more info. None of these sources contain toxicology reports unfortunately, but i hope they are helpful as they mention the PG being used for nebulizer treatments.
I removed the broken links. I think there was a copy write problem as they were from an electronic database that requires login. You can search for these publications none the less, and if searching through pages seems daunting, simply search for PG on your browser.
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Can't access the first one, and I don't even know which article it is. The second one is just the first page, but it dates to 1954 anyway. We need to know what's in inhalers NOW, not back then. If PG is the excipient in present day asthma medication, it would be a knock-out argument for our side. IF it's true and provable.
But I'm googling all over the place, and can't find any citation to prove it. I find lots of statements that PG is used as an excipient in pharmaceuticals, but nothing at all confirming that it's used in asthma inhalers.
But I'm googling all over the place, and can't find any citation to prove it. I find lots of statements that PG is used as an excipient in pharmaceuticals, but nothing at all confirming that it's used in asthma inhalers.
Type in Google "asthma inhalers propylene glycol" and look for the link from freepatentsonline. It discusses aerosol inhalers (for asthma).
This may help as a citation that PG is used in asthma inhalers.
I know it is in Albuterol, which is a common inhaler.
The only downside would be that regular use of PG would cause a scratchy throat and dry mouth.
But we already knew that, right?
This may help as a citation that PG is used in asthma inhalers.
I know it is in Albuterol, which is a common inhaler.
The only downside would be that regular use of PG would cause a scratchy throat and dry mouth.
But we already knew that, right?
Yeah, I've got that. Patents are good, but I'm trying to verify if it is actually currently in use in an FDA approved inhaled medication.
If this is really worrying you - why not quit nicotine? Or, perhaps, go back to smoking those cigarettes that have been soooo proven to be safe!
Julie
You know, statements like these are really starting to get to me. Some people have side effects from e-cigs, and it shouldn't be discounted. That's why this forum is here. It's the "Health & Safety" forum. What else should we be talking about?? Blowing sunshine up everyone's .... about e-cigs?
I think 99.9% of us that are having problems (and aren't trolls or anti-smokers) really want to make it work. And most of us are keeping our worries to this forum so as not to panic new ecig users. Some of us really are working hard at getting to the bottom of our s/e's. And it's even a good thing to prod ejuice mfgs to create a "better" product.
I understand people worry the FDA is going to snoop on this forum & hear all the complaints (and who knows, maybe they have better things to do). In that case, they either should get rid of the health & safety forum, or make it private (i.e. only can join if a certain amt. of posts) so people can talk freely without others getting defensive. or worried that the FDA is gathering ammunition. I realize that making it private isn't exactly ideal for someone who may not have joined yet & wants to weigh whether they feel comfortable with the switch. But if it's the health & safety forum, this & all the other "concerned" posts are "on topic" discussion here.
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