How Confident Are We That These Are Actually Safe?

[malyden]

Here's some info for you analogs use PG - You've already been smoking PG
Tobacco Documents | Profiles | Additives | Propylene Glycol
What's In a Cigarette, 599 Ingredients in a Cigarette
Propylene glycol is a good solvent which has moisture regulating, antiseptic and preservative effects. And it gives a milder smoke. Propylene glycol’s primary function is as a processing agent. As a humectant it helps minimize the generation of dust and fines. Its secondary function is to act as a solubilizing agent for other tobacco additives, such as flavorants. Also it hinders tobacco mold formation. It is used as a humectant and as a filler additive. In 1984 the major tobacco companies used approximately .8% propylene glycol as a humectant in filler except the Liggett Group that used .4% propylene glycol. Back in 1958 Pall Mall contain 1.1 propylene glycol. Evidence had been collected by Philip Morris in the 1950s that propylene glycol when added to the filler gives a milder smoke.

 

[dEFinitionofEPIC]

If this is really worrying you - why not quit nicotine? Or, perhaps, go back to smoking those cigarettes that have been soooo proven to be safe!

Julie

.... you. I'm on here expressing the issues I'm having and you have to come on here and be a b*tch. If quitting was so easy I wouldn't be on here. Thank you for your careless and condescending comment. If you have nothing constructive to say then why don't you just keep your mouth shut?

 

[Kate]

I'm sorry, I haven't read this thread but thought I'd respond to the thread title.

I tried to compile a list of safety concerns I've come across about vaping. Some of these are real risks and some are stretches of imagination I think, try to keep perspective.

We can take in large doses of nicotine which is a toxin.
We don't know what prolonged inhaling of glycerine or PEG400 does to our bodies.
Ditto all the other additives and flavourings in eliquid.
GRAS (generally regarded as safe) chemicals may be safe to ingest but assumptions about safety to inhale are not valid - diacetyl, a food flavouring causes lung disease.
We don't know how the cocktail of chemicals we inhale interacts.
We don't know if there are chemicals given off by the atomiser coil wick as it degrades.
We don't know what type of plastics are used for storage or cartridges and if they leach chemicals.
We don't know what chemicals are given off by cartridge fillers when they are heated or burned.
We don't know about what sort of paint is used on devices, it could contain lead.
We don't know if there is a safety risk with having a battery/power supply so close to our faces.
Faulty switches, chargers or batteries could cause fires.
Health and safety issues

 

[surbitonPete]

I am not really sure what you want to hear from people.....nobody can tell you it's 'safe' to vape .....the best anyone can do is to tell you that logically it makes sense that it must be safer than smoking tobacco. But as an adult you have to make your own decisions about it and if you can't feel comfortable with the decision to vape....then it's best you simply carry on smoking tobacco rather than to be worrying about it all the time.

Oh ...and kate will give you all the facts that we know.

 

[Kate]

You pays your money, you takes your chance. It's a choice between a known unhealthy product - tobacco, and something unproven.

 

[OutWest]

totally off-topic - Kate!! Good to see you posting


On topic - Someone posted earlier about the lactic acid and mentioned diabetes. Is vaping PG based liquids a problem for diabetics? Reason I ask is because friend of mine is diabetic and is about to buy her first ecig.

 

[Kate]

Oops ... one thing that does look good is that propylene glycol has had some very promising scientific test results for inhaling.


PG is considered safe for inhalation by lung transplant patients.

EDIT
Thanks OutWest

 

[surbitonPete]

totally off-topic - Kate!! Good to see you posting


.

Woohoo yes .....with our Kate posting again people will get a lot more sensible answers.

 

[bizzyb0t]

I just want to say that the only side-effect I've had with vaping, is a dry mouth. It also seems to dry out my nostrils if I exhale through my nose a lot. Other than that, no detectable side-effects for me.

I think that certain people are just more sensitive to the vapor than others.

A good example is that I'm sensitive to the chlorine and fluoride put in water in municipal water supplies but can drink well water just fine. Back in TX, it seems that it's reverse for others. I grew up drinking water from artesian wells my whole life and the first time I drank chlorinated water, I got almost a chemical burn on my lips and mouth. And if I drink fluorinated water, it makes my stomach upset and I get a headache.

I think that's what's going on in this thread. People's sensitivity to the chemicals is causing them issues. I think that as more people start vaping, we'll see more instances of people being sensitive to PG and VG. It's just a matter of numbers and percentages.

totally off-topic - Kate!! Good to see you posting


On topic - Someone posted earlier about the lactic acid and mentioned diabetes. Is vaping PG based liquids a problem for diabetics? Reason I ask is because friend of mine is diabetic and is about to buy her first ecig.

I'm diabetic (Type II, non-insulin dependent) and have experienced no complications or rise in blood sugar, so far. But I've only been doing this for just over 3 weeks.

 

[leaford]

I understand people worry the FDA is going to snoop on this forum & hear all the complaints (and who knows, maybe they have better things to do). In that case, they either should get rid of the health & safety forum, or make it private (i.e. only can join if a certain amt. of posts) so people can talk freely without others getting defensive. or worried that the FDA is gathering ammunition.

No, that's not really a cause for concern. Our anecdotes won't be used against us for the same reasons our success stories won't help us. That's not how the FDA operates. The FDA doesn't investigate drugs, their safety, or reported side effects. And they certainly wouldn't be collecting anecdotal evidence. Ignoring all the conspiracy and corruption theories, the FDA makes its decisions, positive or negative, based on scientific studies and clinical data, or lack of them. Not by anecdotes from users.

 

[OutWest]

good point, bizzy. The only side effects I've had so far from PG is dry mouth, occassional mild sore throat (again from not drinking enough fluids), clearing up of lungs, and occassional pains in chest when overdoing it on the nicotine (but I've also had spontaneous lung collapse two different times in the past when overtired and overdoing it on analogs).

For the most part, I'm not that sensitive to stuff, but some things do give me trouble; for example melatonin makes me ill with flu-like symptoms.

Thanks for the info regarding your experience as a diabetic. Appreciate it.

 

[leaford]

Oops ... one thing that does look good is that propylene glycol has had some very promising scientific test results for inhaling.


PG is considered safe for inhalation by lung transplant patients.

EDIT
Thanks OutWest

Thanks, who??

 

[Kate]

OutWest welcomed me back Leaford so I was saying thanks.

*blows a kiss to Pete too*

Thanks for your research into propylene glycol Leaford, that really is a reassuring find

 

[leaford]

OutWest welcomed me back Leaford so I was saying thanks.

*blows a kiss to Pete too*

Thanks for your research into propylene glycol Leaford, that really is a reassuring find

And welcome back, Kate. (Do I get a kiss? )

 

[Kate]

Thanks Leaford

Are you sure you want a kiss

*mwah* xxx

 

[Monkeylurv]

Oops ... one thing that does look good is that propylene glycol has had some very promising scientific test results for inhaling.


PG is considered safe for inhalation by lung transplant patients.

EDIT
Thanks OutWest

Thanks Kate for all that info. My question though is if the method of delivery is the same. "Aerolised" (sp) isn't super heated like PVs right? So alot of these comparisons (fog machines, nebulizers) may be like comparing apples to oranges. Does heating change the chemical structure or byproducts in the mist. FWIW, I have no idea how fog machines work, so I don't know if PG is directly heated, or added to other ingredients like a home/child vaporizer.

The ruyan studies made me somewhat reassured - if one is using ruyan of course. I'm just saying for FDA purposes can the comparison be the same?

What I'd love to see is mfg's removing alot of these ingredients. I know people like their kick, flavor, and more abundant vapor. But it'd be nice to see a more toned down "just give me my nicotine" ejuice if that is at all possible. At least the option. I understand PG/VG is necessary to a certain extent to get actual vapor.

Or a better ecig where the ejuice isn't directly heated on the atomizer.

There's nothing wrong with asking for a safer product. And there's nothing wrong with asking more questions about safety. After all, the tobacco industry lied to us about the safety of analogs, so we shouldn't be accepting lack of info on safety from ecig mfg's, and have an "ignorance is bliss" kind of mentality. We've come along way in blindly accepting what ingredients & products mfg's of food & pharmaceuticals say is healthy or acceptable (High fructose corn syrup, transfats, liver & kidney damage from prescription medications), and should not take a step backward when it comes to this.

Yes, I'll vape if I can get to a point where I can figure out what ingredient I'm not able to tolerate. Because I do accept that this is probably safer than analogs. But it'd be great if someone could tweak the products so that they are even more safer.

 

[Angela]

FWIW, I have no idea how fog machines work, so I don't know if PG is directly heated, or added to other ingredients like a home/child vaporizer..

Yes, it does (and you can buy 'scented' fluid to add to it) Main difference is that the PG is not 'food grade' in the 'smoke' machines/foggers/hazers

 

[Kate]

Absolutely Monkey, we should be looking for ways to minimise risks as far as possible without losing effectiveness.

I bought some 36mg glycerine flavourless eliquid a while ago to use for diluting and home flavours. I was told that the only ingredients in it were glycerine and nicotine and they have a propylene glycol and nicotine version. That's probably as minimal as we can get with current devices.

Regarding cold mists ... there are problems with viruses, bacteria, etc with that. The liquid and hardware all need to be sterile or the bugs will be carried in the mist. With the method of heating that we currently use to create vapour the bugs will be left behind in the atomiser or be killed off with the heat.

 

[CssReb]

With the method of heating that we currently use to create vapour the bugs will be left behind in the atomiser or be killed off with the heat.

I read that nicotine was once used in insecticides years ago. Would it kill germs and bacteria as well?

 

[Kate]

I don't know how nicotine would effect contamination.

"Ultrasonic humidifiers make a cool mist which includes impurities from the liquid, viruses and bacteria are not neutralised in the process."

"There is an illness called 'humidifier fever' - "It is a flu like illness marked by fever, headache, chills myalgia and malaise but without prominent pulmonary symptoms. It normally subsides within 24 hours without residual effects,and a physician is rarely consulted. Humidifier fever has been relate to exposure to amoebae, bacteria, and fungi found in humidifier reservoirs, air conditioners and aquaria."
HUMIDIFIER FEVER is a respiratory disease caused by an immune reaction to inhaling aerosols containing various organic materials

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...esign-requests/2705-ultrasonic-atomisers.html