How Rath (JOHN) of the Rath Juice Beat me for my Money

[AngusATAT]

Question to ECF staff. Why is that above video allowed without deletions and flaggings, and my videos, with only the one use of the F word, gets taken down and I get banned temporarily and my next ban will be a permanent one?

I mean, seriously, ..... wrath in the face?

Because we can't possibly read every post in every thread on every forum. You of all people should know by now that we jump on these things as soon as they are brought to our attention.

 

[markarich159]

Because we can't possibly read every post in every thread on every forum. You of all people should know by now that we jump on these things as soon as they are brought to our attention.

Can we at least have a link reposted so people can see the video?? It really is something vapers have a right to see? Thanks for your consideration.

 

[BigJimW]

Because we can't possibly read every post in every thread on every forum. You of all people should know by now that we jump on these things as soon as they are brought to our attention.

Which is why it was brought to your attention.

 

[AcePilot]

Can we at least have a link reposted so people can see the video?? It really is something vapers have a right to see? Thanks for your consideration.

Agreed, can we please figure something out so we can continue to inform our fellow vapers of whats going on?

 

[AngusATAT]

Agreed, can we please figure something out so we can continue to inform our fellow vapers of whats going on?

I don't have any issues with people telling others about this situation. Unfortunately, you guys are going to have to figure out how to do that in ways that don't include posting videos that will earn you vacations from the ECF.

Vulgar/profane vids are not allowed to be posted here... period. We will not make exceptions.

 

[Quick1]

When your dealing with a product such as this(i.e. a formulation intended for direct human pulmonary inhalation) there should NEVER be inconsistencies.
[snip]
This is a minimum outline of what each eliquid manufacturer should be following and, as I've stated in the past, the eliquid industry as a whole should start self introducing these standards and self-regulating to ensure they are followed. If not, in the future, some willing government bureaucracy will be more then happy to oversee whatever standards they see fit to enact.

"self introducing" and "self-regulating"?

There are going to be people taking advantage of others. It's a non-regulated market with HUGE market potential. Evidenced by the dozens of suppliers and mod sellers popping up every day. I think you're going to have to choose your poison (hopefully not literally).

Without government regulation it's going to be "buyer/supplier beware". Regulation has it's own pros and cons (mainly con with the FDA). But to expect every manufacturer and supplier to take the high road with 10s or 100s of thousands of short term profit for the taking may be optimistic. And the people looking for the grab and run don't care so much what happens to the industry.

I think there is just going to be "wild west" period for a while until some larger local manufacturers and suppliers emerge. When things get to that scale there is more long term incentive for them to be self policing with or without regulation. I think the best we can do as consumers in the mean time is do our homework and reward the suppliers who build trust with us by giving them our business.

 

[CaptJay]

To precis the banned video:
The woman with the scary hair was informing people that John allegedly faked having lung cancer and spent all the money from the people he sold juice to (other suppliers and public both) on gambling This was allegedly discovered by someone calling his wife about an order paid for but not received whereupon she broke down in tears and gave scary-hair (or her informant) the info. She also added that she allegedly has to do all the work (ie make juice) and is also working a full time job on a 'visitor visa' (afaik btw this isn't legal, one can work only on a work visa/green card)

That was basically the meat-n-potatoes of the vid.

 

[Quick1]

Well, scary hair (<- outstanding, I laughed out loud at that description) also said that her friend said that it was John's wife... would visa be an issue there? Can you have an indentured wife?

It seems there are dirty deeds and nasty business afoot here but I don't think I would hire scary hair for any PI work. I was kind of expecting a bit more substance/evidence backing up the specific allegations.

 

[markarich159]

"self introducing" and "self-regulating"?

I think there is just going to be "wild west" period for a while until some larger local manufacturers and suppliers emerge. When things get to that scale there is more long term incentive for them to be self policing with or without regulation. I think the best we can do as consumers in the mean time is do our homework and reward the suppliers who build trust with us by giving them our business.

You're probably right for the time being. An educated consumer, doing their homework and only purchasing a well researched product IS a form of industry self-regulation, maybe the most basic form. The ecig/eliquid industry in the USA today may be one of the last remaining examples of pure, unrestricted, laissez faire, free market capitalism in existence(interesting to behold & from which to glean data on postives and negatives). Personally, I buy the overwhelming majority of my ejuice from DK/Bogetech. Why, because I've seen they have independent certification from reputable industry certification organizations. I've also actually seen a walkthrough of their production facility and was impressed with the airlock/cleanroom system they had in place. Every once in a while I'll taste test a small bottle of the "fad" juice of the month, but that is the farthest I'll wander.

P.S. there actually is a fair amount more substance/evidence available if you do the proper searches(i.e. that is only 1 of many videos on the subject now available as well as communications from several suppliers, in the know, who have been "injured" personally). Unfortunately, as was brought up previously, it is difficult to post much of this info without being in violation of ECF rules.

 

[Sardonic]

From your keyboard to the vaping Gods ears. If only half of this were true, there would be a buttload more product quality out there.

For the record, printing out labels and sticking them onto bulk purchased bottles is NOT quality control. Shame it has to be controlled, it's not like it's running a muck. I'm trying not to think about consuming (ingesting) something that's made in a kitchen sink with products flown over from China. Bad touch. Damn the taste buds. That's why I pay a little more for what appears to be better stuff, even if it's just psychological.

When your dealing with a product such as this(i.e. a formulation intended for direct human pulmonary inhalation) there should NEVER be inconsistencies.

#1. The product formulation as well as the process and procedure to generate it should be standardized(i.e. there should be one and only one recipe that is followed and there should be an SOP-standard operating procedure- followed on each batch to ensure lot to lot consistency - this SOP & recipe should NOT change). The initial product prototype should also be tested over and over before a final recipe determination is made. All mathmatical calculations required should be checked, double-checked and triple-checked before one drop of ingredient is poured.

#2. Consistency in ingredients and apparatus MUST be adhered too before each lot is started. In FDA cGMP, new materials are required to be quarantined by the manufacturer until said manufacturer can be certain that they match precisely what the recipe/SOP has previously called for each and every lot. Apparatus used must be accurate and graduated to the correct level of precision required for the intended measurement/process intended. Apparatus must also be prepared/cleaned to the proper level proscribed in the SOP(sterilized if necessary and in this case, considering human pulmonary inhalation, it's necessary). Paperwork documenting each lot's creation process and adherence to SOP should be retained for at least several years.

#3. Each lot, after completion, must be randomly sampled and tested to ensure consistency and potency(Hopefully utilizing some type of accepted analytical testing method, HPLC, GC/MS, etc...). Lot #'s & proper, predetermined expiration dates must be assigned and representative samples of each lot must be retained by manufacturer in case a recall scenario becomes a reality. If, for whatever reason, a lot inconsistency crops up after said lot has been released into the market, a recall must be performed to reduce further possible harm and to determine the cause of the inconsistency.

This is a minimum outline of what each eliquid manufacturer should be following and, as I've stated in the past, the eliquid industry as a whole should start self introducing these standards and self-regulating to ensure they are followed. If not, in the future, some willing government bureaucracy will be more then happy to oversee whatever standards they see fit to enact.

 

[MichaelOz]

Smokie, you seem like a very trusting and patient person. Perhaps next time if you have an issue with a supplier, switch directly to another one.

 

[kristin]

Which is why it was brought to your attention.

Agreed, can we please figure something out so we can continue to inform our fellow vapers of whats going on?

If people want to watch the video, just go to YouTube and search "john rath juice." I believe it's the first video. (Not sure, because her hair doesn't look crazy to me, but she apparently tells the story.)

 

[kristin]

I can't seem to find the second video posted by Smokey that was deleted from this thread - one that apparently talks about the quality of the rath liquid. Can someone PM me that vid link, please? Thanks!

 

[Bombenhagel]

Wow. The drama...

2 suppliers over at youtube posted that they have been ripped off for a total of $2800.00.

Someone else said his site was all of a sudden gone. Craziness. And ol' girl's youtube name is MeganVonL16.

A couple of weeks ago, I had no idea. I heard this stuff was great and almost bought some. Whoa.

A note on quality: I can say that it is very important and being a certified ISO 9001:2008 quality systems auditor has completely affected and revolutionized how I view how production should be.

Recipes need GMPs and possible conformance to something like ISO 22000 for the food industry.

ISO 9001 is a good place to start in manufacturing or Stateside e-liquid packing because the standard is so generic. Dekang has independent registrars look at their operation and certify consistency... hard registrars like SGS.

Changning Dekang Biotechnology Co., Ltd.

The product itself cannot be certified or registered up against anything here, but the process is verified as consistent and effective. That is what counts across the board to meet customer expectations.

You also get an insight into how some of their flavors are made. Look at that link. Thanks to OP, Smokie. I was gonna give Rath 20 bucks not even 2 weeks ago.

Smokie and MeganVonL16 are my 2 favorite reviewers! Cheers to you both.

 

[rugrat1965]

I just got 3 bottles of Rath juice this week. A complete waste of money! No flavor and a horrible base taste with both the Waffle and the BB Pancake. They actually have a Sulphur taste to them. I'm actually scared to vape them.

 

[markarich159]

I just got 3 bottles of Rath juice this week. A complete waste of money! No flavor and a horrible base taste with both the Waffle and the BB Pancake. They actually have a Sulphur taste to them. I'm actually scared to vape them.

Personally, I would allow my toilet to handle these particular bottles if I was you.

 

[bijo]

Hey do you guys mind if I ask what ecig smokie is using in that video?

 

[smokie]

It was a TW Tornado, the same as a Ego with a 901LR atty, and drip tip