Truth about Rath juice(must see)
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No projection here. I could give you a dozen such examples, at varying levels of closeness to me. It was being faced with this multiple times that eventually made me understand. That example in particular was just one of the more challenging - and thus a very good example.
And of course, it is extremely unfortunate and damaging that he had the ability to affect many people.
Not saying it's not wrong. Of course it's wrong.
I'm just saying good people can do bad things. I could. You could. Anyone could.
It's possible he really is just a jerk, deserving of contempt.
But we don't know that. And ultimately, it is unforgiving attitudes that perpetuate sickness, and stop people from getting help.
Feel free not to understand. But at the very least, don't hold contempt.
And of course, it is extremely unfortunate and damaging that he had the ability to affect many people.
Not saying it's not wrong. Of course it's wrong.
I'm just saying good people can do bad things. I could. You could. Anyone could.
It's possible he really is just a jerk, deserving of contempt.
But we don't know that. And ultimately, it is unforgiving attitudes that perpetuate sickness, and stop people from getting help.
Feel free not to understand. But at the very least, don't hold contempt.
Quite the contrary, I'm empathising with fellow vapers and hard working, honest business owners.
If we were talking about a person that defrauded retirees out of their life savings to support a gambling addiction would you have the same amount of sympathy? I know that during the GFC many ponzi schemes ran by 'sick' people ended up unravelling and revealing lies and deceit - those people are called criminals and they are now in jail where they should be.
What gave you the impression that I'm vengeful by the way?
A problem we have is a majority of people refuse to see any addiction as a sickness. Instead it's seen as a weakness and hence that person is weak themselves. So we hate them for it and the things they do because of it. I'm not saying this guy is right for his actions, but like MistressNomad is trying to point out, he's got a problem and hating him for it is a bad approach.
Gambling is especially bad in itself. Addicted gamblers are sure they can get their money back by gambling and it just becomes a cycle that digs them deeper and deeper. Years ago I used to play a lot of poker...enough that I was making more money than my real job. But I quit because after awhile I began to notice the same losers there day after day, trying to get into action any way they could to get their money back. It was depressing to watch.
People saying, "Screw him, throw him jail" need to understand this won't solve the problem. Thinking we can just throw people away like this doesn't help society. Jail doesn't solve problems for people with addictions, if anything it makes them worse. The guy needs help for his addiction and then he can face the music for anything wrong he has done.
Why can't you empathize with both? Why do we have to pick sides?
Why can't I be understanding of the tormented, and simultaneously concerned for those he put at risk?
Yes, I would have the exact same amount of empathy for a tormented person who defrauded retirees. And I would also have empathy for the retirees.
I don't need to pick sides.
Wanting to throw a sick person in jail because you can't or won't try to understand their torment is vengeful.
But get this.
I can empathize with why you would be vengeful, when you don't understand.
Because I don't need to pick sides. And neither do you. It's your choice.
Why can't I be understanding of the tormented, and simultaneously concerned for those he put at risk?
Yes, I would have the exact same amount of empathy for a tormented person who defrauded retirees. And I would also have empathy for the retirees.
I don't need to pick sides.
Wanting to throw a sick person in jail because you can't or won't try to understand their torment is vengeful.
But get this.
I can empathize with why you would be vengeful, when you don't understand.
Because I don't need to pick sides. And neither do you. It's your choice.
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Oh wow, how interesting! I want to go watch the video. I have nothing against China liquid
I have happily vaped PLENTY of it over the past year and a half. I have just read numerous posts from people that are concerned with where the non US liquid comes from. Now I know where to direct them.
I'm not picking a side, I'm simply holding an individual responsible for their actions.
It's important to remember that the morally bankrupt - sociopaths, narcissists and the like DO NOT empathise with their victims, they function only to serve themselves. That's how I see this matter - a man treading on anyone and everyone to serve his own selfish wants or needs.
I don't believe that a gambling addiction is enough to claim diminished responsibility - that is where I stand, right or wrong. My opinion is not formed out of ignorance.
I didn't say anything about diminished responsibility. What I did say is that you're allowing your sense of vengeance to be more important than effectively dealing with the situation.
Which is exactly why so many people who need help, don't get help. Because of people who want to punish them for needing help.
We have no evidence at this point of him being a sociopath or similar. We do have evidence that he's someone who has been driven to do bad things through addiction.
That evidence is not proof, and that assessment could be wrong. But currently, with what we do know, that is the strongest possibility.
By your logic, we should just get rid of all mental health resources, all addiction resources, all youth aid programs, etc etc etc, and just throw everyone who's done anything bad for any reason in prison. You draw no distinction between bad people, and tormented people. You won't even admit the distinction exists. You compare them to the criminally insane, outright.
Which means you either need to meet more people, or stop blinding yourself to the reality of the human condition.
Black and white is a simplistic, one-dimensional way of viewing the world, which is almost always incorrect. And people who think this way are exactly why so many of these people never get help until they do something horrible like this, and sometimes not even then.
Which is exactly why so many people who need help, don't get help. Because of people who want to punish them for needing help.
We have no evidence at this point of him being a sociopath or similar. We do have evidence that he's someone who has been driven to do bad things through addiction.
That evidence is not proof, and that assessment could be wrong. But currently, with what we do know, that is the strongest possibility.
By your logic, we should just get rid of all mental health resources, all addiction resources, all youth aid programs, etc etc etc, and just throw everyone who's done anything bad for any reason in prison. You draw no distinction between bad people, and tormented people. You won't even admit the distinction exists. You compare them to the criminally insane, outright.
Which means you either need to meet more people, or stop blinding yourself to the reality of the human condition.
Black and white is a simplistic, one-dimensional way of viewing the world, which is almost always incorrect. And people who think this way are exactly why so many of these people never get help until they do something horrible like this, and sometimes not even then.
off topic as it really only addresses gambling.
Speaking on gambling, seems to me if you pick it as a profession you bring nothing to the over all good of humanity.The tv with poker shows and such make it out to be so glamourous, while in my eye its about the worst job to promote.People bash lawyers, mortgage brokers, etc but at the very least those folks give people lots of things you could not get without them.The idea that I am going to outsmart the system or the five or so others sitting in this room, with the same thought on a regular basis is a short cut mentality.Yes lotteries bother me too, watching the folks line up to play 50 bucks a night time and time again.Every publix,winn dixie food store has 10-30 dollar self serve lottery tickets that any kid could buy in my area with no one seeming to care.Everyone has the right to do these things I just dont have to think its all peaches and cream and the heck with the next bloke.Its a society or goverment infliction that bares a lot of the blame, you create it you deal with it.The notion that the states can promote things that they know to cause problems and walk away is nuts, they hold big tobacco to higher standards by a long shot.
Speaking on gambling, seems to me if you pick it as a profession you bring nothing to the over all good of humanity.The tv with poker shows and such make it out to be so glamourous, while in my eye its about the worst job to promote.People bash lawyers, mortgage brokers, etc but at the very least those folks give people lots of things you could not get without them.The idea that I am going to outsmart the system or the five or so others sitting in this room, with the same thought on a regular basis is a short cut mentality.Yes lotteries bother me too, watching the folks line up to play 50 bucks a night time and time again.Every publix,winn dixie food store has 10-30 dollar self serve lottery tickets that any kid could buy in my area with no one seeming to care.Everyone has the right to do these things I just dont have to think its all peaches and cream and the heck with the next bloke.Its a society or goverment infliction that bares a lot of the blame, you create it you deal with it.The notion that the states can promote things that they know to cause problems and walk away is nuts, they hold big tobacco to higher standards by a long shot.
I still do not understand how gambling got to be legal everywhere in the country, its nothing but a money siphon on the weak-constituted, a wqy for large corporations to steal money. Gambling is when you have the chance to win, thievery is when the odds are tilted against you so the 'house' can stay profitable, not the patrons concern but a business backed up by the laws our local governments have enacted fresh from lobbyists donations. I lived in Joliet for a decade, 4 riverboats, and never set foot on them but I know acquaintances who gambled away their paychecks, and the taxes off their losses supports and improved the city but that doesn't make it even close to right.
Unless you've been an addict you can never feel the compulsion that your mind directs you to, even to your own destruction -- in rehab (court-ordered, long story) they told us that most cannot change their ways until they've lost everything. My grandfather threw away his business gambling on the ponies, my father died an alcoholic at 47, and I had to leave college because ....... had started to rule my life -- and there's not one of us on here who hasn't been addicted to at least ONE substance. Locally, we just had a church secretary burn down two houses to cover up the money she stole to feed her gambling addiction, the wife of a state's attorney, a pleasant enough lady who just lost all focus. People are always responsible for their own actions but we all rationalize to make our decisions more palatable to our conscience; I know, I've done it -- I hate flying but the inconvenience of smoking turned that corner for me and now I haven't been in the air for years -- and it all matters how much you can be self-analytical; I have always had the ability to review myself (I'm a gemini!
) but so many people are non-reflective (selfish .......s who have no concern how their actions or inactions may affect others, not THEIR fault, freaking blameless society) and even less these days are empathetic to the trials and tribulations of others and it really doesn't need to be as cold as a world as we have made it, polarized on so many fronts. This is why I like the Forum here, a bunch of like-minded mostly good people working together (I'm not a Marxist!) and, as a guileless and trusting optimist, I need that.Now that all said, the guy is a creep who preyed on others, cheated and stole, and cannot be trusted again with cash -- it'd be like giving Lindsey Lohan a bar! Addictions are no excuse in a court of law, your actions to feed your habit remain indefensible, and Rath juice should remain a thing of the past. I hope I didn't rant too much, just a topic I know too well.....
Could some one PM me the link to the vid that was posted then removed? Thank You in advance !
you could go to youtube and search for videos w/ rath in the title, there are several though the first one was by a girl named Megan I believe.
I will simply say this, with the disclaimer that I am in NO WAY defending Rath (or anyone else for that matter) nor am I condoning his behavior or actions (again, nor anyone else):
For all those that are quick to pass judgment with any thought or understanding, think about this: Put down your ecigs for an ENTIRE day (you'll get off easy). Don't touch them, don't even look at them. Wait to see what exactly you'd do to get your nic fix by the end of that day, then maybe you'll understand a bit more what it's like to have an addiction, because that's exactly what we ALL are. Addicts. Not exactly the same addiction as Rath, but an addict nonetheless.
Does this mean we should simply forgive what has happened? No.
Does this mean it should have been overlooked? Absolutely not.
Does this mean the man should get help instead of hate? Absolutely.
There's a saying, and I think it holds true: "If you don't knows what's going on, keep your nose out the business". The truth about the situation, as far as we can tell, (there's really no way to really guarantee it, and even tho it's "reliable", in the end it's still hearsay) is out. Leave it at that.
For all those that are quick to pass judgment with any thought or understanding, think about this: Put down your ecigs for an ENTIRE day (you'll get off easy). Don't touch them, don't even look at them. Wait to see what exactly you'd do to get your nic fix by the end of that day, then maybe you'll understand a bit more what it's like to have an addiction, because that's exactly what we ALL are. Addicts. Not exactly the same addiction as Rath, but an addict nonetheless.
Does this mean we should simply forgive what has happened? No.
Does this mean it should have been overlooked? Absolutely not.
Does this mean the man should get help instead of hate? Absolutely.
There's a saying, and I think it holds true: "If you don't knows what's going on, keep your nose out the business". The truth about the situation, as far as we can tell, (there's really no way to really guarantee it, and even tho it's "reliable", in the end it's still hearsay) is out. Leave it at that.
If you do a google search using "you tube rath john" (without the quotation marks), you'll see the links for two videos at the top of the page. Also look at the one that's on Vapatron's site (third on the list).
Congratulations on being analog free for five months!
i'm less concerned about his 'addiction' (cop out) than inferior product, quality control, and ripping off ppl that sent him good faith money.
i have personally never purchased Rath juice, but i did get a bottle a few weeks ago in a contest. the bottle was not full, and tasted/looked like it had vanilla extract in it. not something i care to put in my lungs.
for those that think addictions have no legal consequences, tell that to the crack addict's kids that have to grow up with the consequences.
the vaping community needs to clean up it's act and quit fear mongering the FDA boogeyman. We have stench in our own backyard. for myself personally, I'm NOT that desperate to vape to put up with it.
i have personally never purchased Rath juice, but i did get a bottle a few weeks ago in a contest. the bottle was not full, and tasted/looked like it had vanilla extract in it. not something i care to put in my lungs.
for those that think addictions have no legal consequences, tell that to the crack addict's kids that have to grow up with the consequences.
the vaping community needs to clean up it's act and quit fear mongering the FDA boogeyman. We have stench in our own backyard. for myself personally, I'm NOT that desperate to vape to put up with it.
Gambling is a tax on the mathematically challenged. I wouldn't say it's for the "weak-constituted" tho. If you know what you face and willingly accept it, then where's the issue with that? It's when people can't set limits that it becomes an issue.
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