How Smokeless Tobacco Can Save Your Life

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Stubby

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“How Smokeless tobacco Can Save Your Life”

I dunno.

My cousin developed Mouth Cancer from Dip and ended up Dying from it. He was 54.

Just because someone develops oral cancer and used dip doesn't mean dip was the cause. Other questions are

Did he ever smoke? (smoking has a very high risk factor)
Did he drink? (Alcohol is many times more risky then even older higher TSNA level dip)
HPV is the highest cause of oral cancer for young people, gotten from oral sex with an infected partner.

In order it get an understanding risk you have to look at population studies and they show an extremely low risk if any.

This is a good example of bad information. This person smoked for 42 years, and yet the doctor blamed smokeless tobacco which he used for a short time as the cause.

Oral Cancer Survivor tells of Consequences of Smokeless Tobacco. - YouTube
 

zoiDman

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Alcohol and smoking cause more mouth cancer than dipping does, thus that could be what caused it and not the ST in and of itself. A lot of the studies done about ST actually don't take into account if the persons that are using the product smoke or drink as smoking and drinking causes more cases of mouth cancer than using dip does.

Yeah... But my cousin Never Smoked anything in his Life. So the Smoking / Drinking Angle doesn't apply in his case.

All I know is if I have to Die of either Lung Cancer or Mouth Cancer, I’d take Lung Cancer ANY Day of the Week.

But that’s just me. If someone wants to Chew or Dip. Go for it.
 

jdw89

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Yeah... But my cousin Never Smoked anything in his Life. So the Smoking / Drinking Angle doesn't apply in his case.

All I know is if I have to Die of either Lung Cancer or Mouth Cancer, I’d take Lung Cancer ANY Day of the Week.

But that’s just me. If someone wants to Chew or Dip. Go for it.

I was just putting smoking in there for effect, saying that it in and of itself causes more cancer than smokeless products do, and not only that, but drinking in and of itself causes mouth cancer. No offense meant, but there is no way to accurately determine if your cousin's mouth cancer was from ST or alcohol use, but any DR will blame it on ST more than likely.
 

zoiDman

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... No offense meant, but there is no way to accurately determine if your cousin's mouth cancer was from ST or alcohol use, but any DR will blame it on ST more than likely.

No Offense Taken.

All I know is that after he found out Exactly what was going to be needed to Attempt to Remove / Arrest the Cancer, he went to 3 Specialist to seek a Less Invasive and Aggressive Option.

The all told him the same thing. That it was a Type of Cancer that is Almost Never seen in people who don’t either Chew or Dip.

I’m not a Doctor.

All I know is I saw the Photo’s after his Surgeries and heard what the Radiation Therapy did to him. It wasn’t pretty.

He told my Aunt when he died that it was better this way. He didn’t want to live the rest of his life with what was left of his Month and Jaw after 2 years of going in and out of Hospitals.
 

jdw89

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No Offense Taken.

All I know is that after he found out Exactly what was going to be needed to Attempt to Remove / Arrest the Cancer, he went to 3 Specialist to seek a Less Invasive and Aggressive Option.

The all told him the same thing. That it was a Type of Cancer that is Almost Never seen in people who don’t either Chew or Dip.

I’m not a Doctor.

All I know is I saw the Photo’s after his Surgeries and heard what the Radiation Therapy did to him. It wasn’t pretty.

He told my Aunt when he died that it was better this way. He didn’t want to live the rest of his life with what was left of his Month and Jaw after 2 years of going in and out of Hospitals.

That is very sad and I am very sorry for your loss, it can also happen with those that smoke or drink as well, I'm not sure about the numbers with alcohol consumption, but as far as cigarettes go, I know the risk of mouth cancer is even higher than if you used ST products, really scary if you think about it. I am only mentioning cigarettes because I, myself am trying to quit them.
 

zoiDman

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It is Sad.

And it happens to people Every Day. Every Single Day.

That is why even if vaping isn’t 100% Safe, I believe that it Has to Be Safer than someone who Smokes. Or Chews. Or Dips.

---

Chain Vape 36mg. Raid the Frig Constantly. But just Don't Smoke another Cigarette, or Chew or Dip, Tonight.

One Day at a Time.

Just fight it One Day at a Time. In a Week without Cigarettes, or Chew or Dip, it gets better. Much Better.

You can Do It.
 
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jdw89

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It is Sad.

And it happens to people Every Day. Every Single Day.

That is why even if Vaping isn’t 100% Safe, I believe that it Has to Be Safer than someone who Smokes. Or Chews. Or Dips.

It is probably safer, though I haven't read tons of studies on it, though from studies I've read about ST, the risk of developing disease from it compared to smoking is about 2%, so essentially, ST is 98% safer than traditional cigarettes.
 

zoiDman

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It is probably safer, though I haven't read tons of studies on it, though from studies I've read about ST, the risk of developing disease from it compared to smoking is about 2%, so essentially, ST is 98% safer than traditional cigarettes.

You can find Any set of Numbers on the Internet.

Just know this. You are going to be doing better if you Don't Smoke or Chew or Dip. Period.

If vaping is the way to get a person Off Cigarettes or Chew or Dip. Do It.
 

jdw89

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You can find Any set of Numbers on the Internet.

Just know this. You are going to be doing better if you Don't Smoke or Chew or Dip. Period.

If vaping is the way to get a person Off Cigarettes or Chew or Dip. Do It.
You'll find more support against Tobacco Harm Reduction than for it to be honest. Be advised to always keep an open mind about things, and that switching from cigarettes to smokeless tobacco can truly save many lives. A few years ago 450,000 people died from smoking related illness, only 2,700 died from smokeless tobacco usage. The numbers tell the story my friend, not anything I can say will change the facts. Tobaccoharmreduction.org , I urge you to check on this site and be informed. Peace to you.
 

Stubby

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You can find Any set of Numbers on the Internet.

Just know this. You are going to be doing better if you Don't Smoke or Chew or Dip. Period.

That is completely bogus and the science doesn't back you up. I understand many vapors haven't taken the time to look at the issue and are falling for the propaganda and misinformation out there about ST. It is simply a false assumption that e-cigs are significantly less risky then ST. The studies are not showing it. The numbers simply don't back up your conclusions.

You don't have to believe me. Look at what Kristin, Vocalek, and Carl Phillips from CASAA are saying. Also look at what Brad Rodu has been writing in his blog. You are making a blind emotionally based assumption that has little to nothing to do with reality.
 

zoiDman

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... A few years ago 450,000 people died from smoking related illness, only 2,700 died from smokeless tobacco usage. The numbers tell the story my friend, not anything I can say will change the facts. ...

Could it be that the Number is Lower because Less people use ST than Smoke.

I have used Numbers all of my Adult Life. Trust me on this. I could manipulate Numbers to Yield just about Any Result I chose.

But what it gets down to is this. If you want to Chew or Dip, it is Not Without Risk.
 

zoiDman

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... It is simply a false assumption that e-cigs are significantly less risky then ST. The studies are not showing it. The numbers simply don't back up your conclusions.

...

I Didn't say that Vaping is Significantly Safer than ST.

I said I Believe that it is.
 

Stubby

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I Didn't say that Vaping is Significantly Safer than ST.

I said I Believe that it is.

That is essentially your argument in a nutshell. It's a belief. You sound much more like an e-cig fanboy rather then someone who understands the basics of THR. There are a good deal more people who use ST in the US then use e-cigs. The type of misinformation you are pushing works against THR, and against public health.
 

Faylool

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Well I missed this activity and all I can say if it keeps me off smoking I'm doing it and enjoying it and saving money which is something I simply have to do right now. Every nickel goes to maintain my simple lifestyle or I'll loose it. It's stressful, snus and snuff have WTA as well as the nicotine I'm addicted to. I havent smoked all that much through my life (60 years) I hate smoking but I got started young before I realized it. The last time I quit was with nicorette and chewed that for 10 years. Got to vaping to save money. Well that's funny because it's going to be a least a year before I even break even and I've only vaped 7 months. Then I'm amazed by the results from WTA and it's something I cannot DIY soooo, I looked in to Swedish snus casually and was delighted to discover it wasn't all as bad as I had been lead to believe. Of course I know there are no guarantees I won't be one of the few who get terminal damage from doing it, but it's just the way it is. I need a crutch and I'm enjoying this one quite a bit actually. Lucky for me I wasn't too interested in living past 70 anyway. So there ya go. Ha ha. There has to be something relaxing about this bodies decline hmmm? I spent a couple hours picking out snuff the other day. I actually like snuff better than snus. Everybody is different. I'm glad to say I gave up drinking entirely. At one time it was relaxing and then it became a vicious cycle of abuse and needing to use it again to recover and so it went. God knows I deserve a little snus and a variety of snuffs for my pleasure. Im certainly not going to kill someone from snusing snuffing or vaping and driving. So you see where some people can be coming from? It's just not a perfect world and there are just too many things out there that might get me anymore. Read the facts. Be aware. Seek the truth. Make choices that work for you. If I start getting physical distress on a daily basis from snus and snuff I'll quit it. Same with vaping. Nicorette gum never caused me any problem. I'll go back to it. It was too expensive and no fun. I did get physically distressed and coughing and asthma complications from smoke, I did seriously threaten my health and other peoples safety and happiness with alcohol. What's worse? Well, anyway. As always thinking, thinking out loud and of course hoping everybody can do well in their desire to replace bad with good. Or if you want to say it another way, bad with better.
 
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kristin

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Some things for people to think about regarding oral cancer risk and smokeless tobacco....

The number of annual deaths from oral cancer is 8,000 (13,500 including larynx cancer) in the U.S. (If you trust the Oral Cancer Foundation.)
Compare that to...
Heart disease: 597,689
Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 138,080
Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 129,476
Accidents (unintentional injuries): 120,859
Alzheimer's disease: 83,494
Diabetes: 69,071
Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 50,476
Influenza and Pneumonia: 50,097
Intentional self-harm (suicide): 38,364
(According to the CDC.)
Highway Traffic Deaths 2011: 32,367
(According to NHTSA)

So, over 4 times the number of people die from driving on highways than the total number of all (tobacco and non-tobacco) mouth cancer deaths. Does that make you want to quit driving?

In 2010 there were 2,468,435 deaths in the U.S., so oral cancer (including larynx) was the cause of only 0.054% of total deaths. That's 1/2 of 1%. Compare that to heart disease (24%) and even diabetes (3%). Your diet is far more likely to kill you with a heart attack than smoking or ST use with oral cancer!

The estimated number of adult smokeless tobacco users in the U.S. is 7,495,828 (3.3% of adults.) According to the ACS, at least 50% of oral cancers today (not including larynx) are caused by HPV (some studies say it's as high as 72%). So, the number of oral cancers linked to tobacco use (including smoking) would have to be 50% or less. If there are 45 million smokers and roughly 7.5 million ST users, there are 6-times as many smokers at risk for oral cancer. Therefore, 4,000 oral cancer deaths would mean roughly 667 ST oral cancer deaths and 3,333 smoking oral cancer deaths (if you ignore studies that show smokers are twice as likely to get oral cancer.) That means less than 0.001% of ST users die every year from oral cancer. Does this give you a better idea of how RARE it is for ST users to die from oral cancer? If you were told that 0.001% of people die from a certain cancer from eating your favorite food, would that really make you afraid of eating it? What if they also told you they didn't know for certain if eating that food actually caused cancer, but that 50% the people who got this cancer also ate that particular food, so they believe there is a link?

That's another thing people don't realize. Scientists have no idea how tobacco causes cancer, they just know that a higher number of people with the cancer are also tobacco users. However, they don't normally eliminate other factors that can cause cancer, such as HPV, diet, alcohol, genetics and environment when they list cause of death. "The decedent died from oral cancer and used ST? Write ST use down as cause of death. Next." But there is a big difference between a known cause and correlation data (X causes Y vs. X and Y are both present.)

As far as TSNAs - there has been no conclusive evidence to prove TSNAs are actually the CAUSE of cancer (again - they haven't yet figured out HOW smoking causes cancer, they only have found higher cancer rates in people who also smoke) and therefore, there is no evidence that lower TSNAs reduce cancer risk.

The risk of cancer from ST is so low that if you had that same risk from a lot of other things people enjoyed, most people wouldn't consider it a risk worth worrying about. There is no such thing as "zero risk." Most people would think a 1% increased risk isn't anything to really worry about - because there's a 99% chance you WON'T get sick and die from it. So, why avoid a product over worrying about a disease that only 0.001% of users die from?
 
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