How Smokeless Tobacco Can Save Your Life

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Stubby

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Speaking of the similarities, does anyone have a direct link to a study about the TSNAs or risks of the US product

http://rodutobaccotruth.blogspot.com/2012/10/more-evidence-that-smokeless-tobacco.html

The TSNA levels in US type ST have been going down for decades. The levels for american snus are very low. American dry snuff is relatively high compared to UK nasal snuff. Togue from the UK has said their snuff is about 2.9 ppm TSNA.

Edit: Um........ ah........... I was just going to say that Kristin...................
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bleev

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From the age of 10 I used red-man leaf tobacco and skoal dip. Went to the dentist and the found white bumps on my Gums. They said it could be the start of cancer. I stopped and switched to smoking (no better). I asked my DR. And pharmacist recently if vaping was dangerous and they said it was not and a much better choice than smoking as nicotine is just a stimulant like coffee and you aren't inhaling the 10,000 other carcinogens in traditional cigs. That's when I switched and haven't had a cig for a couple weeks...no problem.
 

jdw89

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From the age of 10 I used red-man leaf tobacco and skoal dip. Went to the dentist and the found white bumps on my Gums. They said it could be the start of cancer. I stopped and switched to smoking (no better). I asked my DR. And pharmacist recently if vaping was dangerous and they said it was not and a much better choice than smoking as nicotine is just a stimulant like coffee and you aren't inhaling the 10,000 other carcinogens in traditional cigs. That's when I switched and haven't had a cig for a couple weeks...no problem.
I have white bumps too, could be from smoking though, not sure (in my case anyways) I heard that is just leukoplakia which are like callouses from the tobacco sitting there.
 

Stubby

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From the age of 10 I used red-man leaf tobacco and skoal dip. Went to the dentist and the found white bumps on my Gums. They said it could be the start of cancer. I stopped and switched to smoking (no better). I asked my DR. And pharmacist recently if vaping was dangerous and they said it was not and a much better choice than smoking as nicotine is just a stimulant like coffee and you aren't inhaling the 10,000 other carcinogens in traditional cigs. That's when I switched and haven't had a cig for a couple weeks...no problem.

This is from the tobacco harm reduction site

Much of the following is taken from Rodu and Godshall's Tobacco harm reduction: an alternative cessation strategy for inveterate smokers. See the original for further reading or for details on the research behind the conclusions.

Oral leukoplakia is an ominous sounding term used frequently in discussions about oral lesions resulting from ST use. The term literally means "white plaque," and it is used to describe areas of the mouth lining that become thickened by ST use or smoking. The World Health Organization has determined that leukoplakias resulting from ST use are considerably different from those resulting from smoking. The distinctions are based on the frequency of occurrence, the location in the mouth, and how often these leukoplakias result in mouth cancer.

The condition is rare, occurring in less than 1% of the general population, primarily in long-time smokers 40 to 60 years old. Smoking-related leukoplakias most commonly involve the undersurface of the tongue and throat area, locations that account for 75% of oral cancer in the U.S..

Oral leukoplakias occur in up to 60% of ST users, within 6 months to 3 years of starting ST use. They primarily occur at the site of ST use and are largely a result of local irritation. The frequency of appearance depends on the type of ST that is used. Moist snuff, which is more alkaline than chewing tobacco, more often leads to leukoplakia. However, moist snuff in pre-portioned pouches (like snus) causes fewer cases of leukoplakia than does the loose form.

There are distinct differences in how often ST and smoking leukoplakias show pre-cancerous changes called dysplasia. Dysplasia is seen infrequently in ST leukoplakias (less than 3%). Furthermore, even when dysplasia is present in ST leukoplakia, it usually is found in earlier stages than in leukoplakias among smokers, where it is seen in about 20% of cases.

ST leukoplakias only rarely progress to cancer. For example, one study found no case of cancer in 1,550 ST users with leukoplakia who were followed for 10 years, and a second study reported no case of oral cancer among 500 regular ST users followed for six years. A retrospective study of 200,000 male snuff users in Sweden found only one case of oral cancer per year, an extremely low frequency. In comparison, a follow-up study reported that 17% of smoking leukoplakias transformed into cancer within seven years.

In conclusion, oral leukoplakia occurs commonly in ST users, but it primarily represents irritation and only very rarely progresses to oral cancer.
 

hittman

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    First let me say that I vape, use snus, and snuff occasionally. I think that many people think of vaping as a perfect, no risk solution to their smoking addiction. The only no risk thing that I am aware of is abstinence. The name of the game for me is reduced risk. I have read several of the studies on snus and would have never even considered trying it without trying to inform myself first. I think that everyone here is in agreement that smoking is the beast that we're trying to slay. This I can tell you with no doubt in my mind. If it was not for snus then I'd be a full time smoker again. After a couple months of vaping with no smokes I felt myself still missing something and found that I didn't function well without the other alkaloids in tobacco. In the end, I say each to his own. Use what works and if you can reduce the risk along with that then it's all the better.
     

    zoiDman

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    From the age of 10 I used red-man leaf tobacco and skoal dip. Went to the dentist and the found white bumps on my Gums. They said it could be the start of cancer. I stopped and switched to smoking (no better). I asked my DR. And pharmacist recently if vaping was dangerous and they said it was not and a much better choice than smoking as nicotine is just a stimulant like coffee and you aren't inhaling the 10,000 other carcinogens in traditional cigs. That's when I switched and haven't had a cig for a couple weeks...no problem.

    Good to hear that you are doing well with Vaping.
     

    kristin

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    The only no risk thing that I am aware of is abstinence.

    The ANTZ would love for people to believe that, but you can see it isn't true if you think it through. Non-tobacco users still get ALL of the diseases associated with tobacco use and smoking. So abstinence from tobacco is no guarantee you won't get heart disease, oral cancer or lung cancer, either. And since we know that the risks are already so low with ST, abstinence can't really reduce the risks very much. The claim is ST use doubles your risk of oral cancer, but now you know that means 0.002% of ST user oral cancer deaths. That also means that even the experts agree that abstinence doesn't equal zero risk, because then how can you get the double of zero for the ST risk? There has to be some risk to double! ;)
     

    zoiDman

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    The ANTZ would love for people to believe that, but you can see it isn't true if you think it through. Non-tobacco users still get ALL of the diseases associated with tobacco use and smoking. So abstinence from tobacco is no guarantee you won't get heart disease, oral cancer or lung cancer, either. And since we know that the risks are already so low with ST, abstinence can't really reduce the risks very much. The claim is ST use doubles your risk of oral cancer, but now you know that means 0.002% of ST user oral cancer deaths. That also means that even the experts agree that abstinence doesn't equal zero risk, because then how can you get the double of zero for the ST risk? There has to be some risk to double! ;)

    Forget about Month Cancer for a second.

    Are there No Other Downsides to putting Ground Up Tobacco between your Month?

    I'll assume for a moment that the Morbidity Rates are what you say they are for ST. Is Dying the Only Benchmark that we measure Hazards by?

    I respect your Views on most things Kristin and I know you are Passionate about the Fights you Fight. But when does Common Sense start to play a role in things?

    Are there Other concerns that a person should consider before they put a Pinch between their Cheek and Gum?
     

    Faylool

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    I'm new. 2 weeks. From reading links for info like you are looking for I can think of gum recession,mostly reversible teeth staining and sore oral membranes when starting or overusing, some people report stomache aches and I suppose the salt might be an issue for people with salt restrictions and of course there is always some kind of allergy that could happen.
    I got a new attomizer that was a rebuildables, Phoenix. My 1st time in changing its coil/ wick ( I bought premades) worked. I was proud and it holds a lot of drops so I'm not used to being able to get mega vape many times in a row, which I did delighting in my little accomplishment. I overdosed on nic very quickly. For me it's nausea and sometimes headache. This is a concern in the vaping arena as well as DIY working with high concentrations of nic juic. Not to mention battery hazards using or charging and additives like diacytal and others, forget and the very minor bitty things regarding wicks and so on. I kind of don't understand why you want to pick at the negatives of these things except to bring a different perspective to the table just so that people arent believing in an ideal. I don't think we all know nothing is ideal. Wish it could be! Like eat all the cookies I want and not gain weight and enjoy every bite because I never get full or. Are you considering snus or snuff? Have you tried it? Just wondering because of your concern about it. I might have missed something. Was it your relative who died from oral cancer? Sorry that was close to you. Cancer is ugly, strokes are ugly, dying is ugly until after the fact then who knows. Just offering some different input. I'm just on the sidelines doing my thing and I enjoy the forums and seeing where people are at about stuff. They are pretty honest compared to newspapers. It's alarming some of the lack of knowledge people have but it's great to see inquiring minds. Love that
     

    hittman

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    Forget about Month Cancer for a second.

    Are there No Other Downsides to putting Ground Up Tobacco between your Month?

    I'll assume for a moment that the Morbidity Rates are what you say they are for ST. Is Dying the Only Benchmark that we measure Hazards by?

    I respect your Views on most things Kristin and I know you are Passionate about the Fights you Fight. But when does Common Sense start to play a role in things?

    Are there Other concerns that a person should consider before they put a Pinch between their Cheek and Gum?

    I have been using snus for a little over three years along with vaping. I don't know if it matters or not but I've always used portion snus and have never used loose. During the past three years I had braces as an adult, went to all my ortho appointments and went to the dentist every three months for cleanings and received several compliments from my dentist and the technician about how much better my teeth and gums looked compared to when I was smoking a pack and a half a day. I think that if a person brushes 2-3 times a day and flosses each day like they are supposed to anyway then the staining will be minimal and personally speaking I haven't had any noticeable gum recession. I'm not saying it's a perfect option. I'm sure there could be other concerns that I'm not aware of but I would think that the concerns should be quite a bit less than if I was smoking all those cigarettes.
     

    jdw89

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    I have been using snus for a little over three years along with vaping. I don't know if it matters or not but I've always used portion snus and have never used loose. During the past three years I had braces as an adult, went to all my ortho appointments and went to the dentist every three months for cleanings and received several compliments from my dentist and the technician about how much better my teeth and gums looked compared to when I was smoking a pack and a half a day. I think that if a person brushes 2-3 times a day and flosses each day like they are supposed to anyway then the staining will be minimal and personally speaking I haven't had any noticeable gum recession. I'm not saying it's a perfect option. I'm sure there could be other concerns that I'm not aware of but I would think that the concerns should be quite a bit less than if I was smoking all those cigarettes.

    Oh I was talking about moist snuff, not Snus lol
     

    kristin

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    Forget about Month Cancer for a second.

    Are there No Other Downsides to putting Ground Up Tobacco between your Month?

    I'll assume for a moment that the Morbidity Rates are what you say they are for ST. Is Dying the Only Benchmark that we measure Hazards by?

    I respect your Views on most things Kristin and I know you are Passionate about the Fights you Fight. But when does Common Sense start to play a role in things?

    Are there Other concerns that a person should consider before they put a Pinch between their Cheek and Gum?

    Sure - essentially the same risks you have from putting anything else in your mouth. Most of the other "negative effects" of smokeless tobacco use can be countered with really good dental hygiene. For example, my husband uses snus and has really bad dental problems. It'd be the first thing the ANTZ would point to - look at his snus use and all of those bad teeth! Except it would be correlation, not cause. He just started using snus regularly in the past 3 years. All of his damage was caused by excessive soda use as a young man and was present before he even started with snus!

    No, morbidity is not the only concern - of course people get oral cancers and have horrific surgeries like removal of the tongue and jaw and live. But again - compared to the number of users, cases like that are extremely rare. They also cannot show that ST use was the only possible cause for the cancer - there are just too many other factors like genes, above-average alcohol use, HPV, previous & current smoking and exposure to other consumables. I've tried and tried to find any research on never smoker, ST users without the other factors who got any diseases and they don't exist. The closest thing is never smoker, Swedish snus-using miners who were studied and there was no increased risk of ANY disease found.

    Common sense is that everything we do has risks. Every time we get in a vehicle, go swimming, eat food, drink, climb a ladder, take a walk or anything else there is a risk that something freaky or horrifying could happen to us. There is no evidence that ST use, absent of any of the other risk exposures, is any more likely to harm us. However, if you have other risk factors, you should definitely take those into consideration. If you have a high risk of heart disease, other cancers or drink alcohol more than average, you should probably avoid ADDING additional risk factors such as tobacco, fatty food, nicotine, caffeine, etc. But if you are otherwise healthy and low risk there is no reason to avoid ST or e-cigarettes anymore than there is to become a vegan and stop driving, simply out of fear of the extremely low chances that meat could cause you to get colon cancer or driving will inevitably cause you to get in a car accident. Pointing to the rare cases of horrible diseases ST users got as a reason not to use it is like pointing to the aftermath of horrific drunk driving accidents as a reason not to ever get into a car.

    The point is that the downsides of ST aren't really any worse than the downsides of a lot of things we (or other people) choose to do. It seems to me that telling someone who is otherwise low risk to not use ST, because of the extremely low chance they would get mouth cancer or gum disease, when there are so many other things they could be doing with equally "scary consequences" is a bit silly. The exaggeration of the risks of ST use compared to other things we are exposed to daily is simply an ANTZ tactic.
     
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