How to Get Around Future E Cig Taxes
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Yes, the Australian pituri plant, Duboisia Hopwoodii, is the best alternative. Other Duboisias may also have promise. Choice of cultivar is important, some have the same amount of nicotine as a tobacco plant, some have unwanted alkaloids like scopolamine.
However it is almost certain that the laws would simply be changed to specify 'nicotine products' not 'tobacco products'. They need to kill off vaping in order to protect smoking and they own the law, so whatever is necessary will be done. There is no way out by this route.
Equally, there is no point in trying to find an alternative alkaloid either. Firstly they'd change the law to suit, and secondly we need nicotine for a whole bunch of reasons.
The answer is to fight the system and change it, not try to wriggle around their corrupt laws.
No. This thread isn't about evading taxes. That's illegal. It's about legally getting around future taxes. From what I've gathered, simple things like avoiding purchases of pre-filled cartos will spare folks from having to pay the same level of taxes generally applied to cigarettes.
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Not if you're a corporate entity with a post office box/office outside the United States territories.
If I'm correct alternatives have been ventured and found to be both too expensive and more dangerous.
The greed of the corporate entities is the base root of most evil in most cases. Gotta keep those stock reports up you know, nah don't worry about the consumers we're corporate and the majority of the media channels are in our pocket too.
Chicken used to be healthier than beef, bring in the corporate hand and the opposite becomes true by way of growth hormones and it's all about the money. Something has to be done or Monsanto may be knocking on our doors claiming we're infringing on their e-liquid patents while DIYing.
I have a pen, I have a phone. I am going to do what is right, that's what the American people elected me to do. I find those statements to be dictatorial and they are flying in the USA.
I think there's a pretty large pool of data out there at least for medium term risks. There are millions of people vaping around the world, and it started 10 years ago. If there were any significant medium term problems surely they would have surfaced by now. There's plenty of people looking. I imagine BT would have found it and publicized it by now. It's possible there are some serious long term effects that emerge after 30 years but don't show up in at all in the first 10 years. Doesn't seem very likely. And that could be true of a long list of stuff invented recently, like cell phones. Nobody is calling for punitive taxes or bans on cell phones just in case users start dropping dead after 30 years of using a cell phone.
In any case there are plenty of known dangerous things out there. Like tobacco and sugar. We know the dangers of those products but we haven't banned them.
It does seem like vaping is being singled out for special treatment. My guess is, partly because of its association with smoking, partly because of its effect on the profits of powerful influential corporations and government revenue.
Challenge takes money, have you contributed anything other than exhaled air?
Law suits require money, I am sure that your check is in the mail.
You should probably do that.
Most large producers of flavorings don't even want to be associated with vaping.
They are the same chemicals. Except for a limited number of extractions carried out by juice vendors specifically for vaping.
As far as I can see, the only viable way to avoid future taxes (or bans) is to stock up on nic now. I'd rather quit vaping than vape a NET, don't want anything to do with the taste of tobacco anymore. I also don't want to turn my house into a chemistry lab exploring other alternatives, not likely to have satisfactory results anyway.
I don't know how long my current freezer stash will last, but I don't see why it couldn't keep for 10 years at least, given the reports that 5 years in a freezer had no noticeable effect. A generator seems like overkill. We average a power failure about every 2 years here, the longest was 2.5 days and the freezer was still very cold inside at the end of that. It's not as if nic will spoil like frozen meat would, it just may oxidize a teeny tiny bit more.
I did get a thermocouple type thermometer to monitor temps inside the freezer without having to open the door, mostly so I know if I need to toss the food inside after a power failure. The probe wire is thin enough that it doesn't affect the door seal. ( I live alone, so I'm not concerned about having food and nic in the same freezer, no one but me is going to be messing with the contents of my freezer.)
I don't know how long my current freezer stash will last, but I don't see why it couldn't keep for 10 years at least, given the reports that 5 years in a freezer had no noticeable effect. A generator seems like overkill. We average a power failure about every 2 years here, the longest was 2.5 days and the freezer was still very cold inside at the end of that. It's not as if nic will spoil like frozen meat would, it just may oxidize a teeny tiny bit more.
I did get a thermocouple type thermometer to monitor temps inside the freezer without having to open the door, mostly so I know if I need to toss the food inside after a power failure. The probe wire is thin enough that it doesn't affect the door seal. ( I live alone, so I'm not concerned about having food and nic in the same freezer, no one but me is going to be messing with the contents of my freezer.)
Correct me if I'm wrong, wouldn't such a suit also require a party who had achieved standing by having violated such a ban?
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They can't send a volunteer out to vape in a location which does not allow it, refuse when asked to stop, then file a lawsuit? Where are these die hard activists? Are they just bold on Internet forums? Maybe CASSA is just waiting for NJOY or BLU to actually do something, rather than just work people up on Internet forums and collect donations...
True, but the issue of standing would not be addressed until after suit was filed with a complaint. The cost of preparation prior to even drafting the complaint can be very high. The value of a well drafted, well researched and prepared, complaint cannot be underestimated. Standing would be a necessary part of that preparation. A good lawyer's motto is that of a good Boy Scout; be prepared (the similarity ends right there). And, because whoever the plaintiff may be that plaintiff would be litigating the regulations of the federal government; the litigation budget of the USA is calculated with a printing press not a calculator. [musing cynically] A just cause is not the first prerequisite, money is. "Justice" may or may not follow.
I've read through the bulk of this thread, and I just have a couple of ideas. First of all, there is power in numbers,but as has been the case in many areas, a lot of people want to talk, but nobody wants to get up off their .... and move.
Second, get off the grid.
Me, personally, as an adult who only wants to live and not bother anybody else, I've had my fill of government telling me what I can and cannot do. "Nuff said.
Second, get off the grid.
Me, personally, as an adult who only wants to live and not bother anybody else, I've had my fill of government telling me what I can and cannot do. "Nuff said.
OK, then I'll go on record as being in for a four figure dollar amount should CASAA make a commitment to pursuing this route.
I wonder if we should start a new thread, perhaps in the CASAA section of the forum?
It seems we are straying rather far off the original topic of "How to get around future e-cig taxes".
Hasn't Minnesota passed a tax on e-liquid? Why hasn't that been pursued?
Just a quick follow-up. Part of the preparation for the standing issue would be to review multiple potential plaintiffs, kind of a casting call for offended persons, and choosing the most attractive factual situation. Set-up situations such as my esteemed fellow poster, Steve, would not be my first choice. The set-up itself would provide discovery distractions and the opportunity for obfuscation and increasing costs, both are a defense attorneys best friend. Way back in time when I litigated, I called this the "squid defense", like the quid you squirt ink all over hoping no one can see the truth. When I was a judge, I called this the "Excedrin Headache #1" defense while begging lawyers to please please get to an actual substantive issue.
Rotowoman, God love you; I am with you in that people ask others to do what they will not. as to "off the grid", the best I can do is to stock up on those supplies related primarily to vaping and using a mechanicl that I can repair myself if it breaks (a REO is my choice). I mix my own juice and hand load my own ammunition.
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