How to Get Around Future E Cig Taxes

[jkress]

Also, I stick with High or all VG...and my brain is ok

So...guess the common factor with klynnn is NO CIGS and NO COLDS!!

 

[jkress]

I can't tell you all how much I appreciate the contributions to this conjecture from folks like AdriaD and CMD-Ky.

I humbly pose another question to my fellow vapors out there...

I'd really like to get behind a group who mounts a legal challenge to vaping bans and taxes.

Do you think it's plausible to get financial backing for legal challenges from "Big Vapor?"

I see videos from folks like PBusardo touring vape product manufacturing facilities in China. It appears as though they want to keep our vaping community happy.

I'd love to see these companies back up a Vapor Consumer Advocacy group of some sort to fight taxes & bans on a small municipality level to defeat this campaign of fear and extortion being waged against us.


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On that note I would like to share one of my favorite quotes:

"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has." ~Margaret Mead~

I am not saying the vaping community is necessarily "small" but this quote jumped to mind while reading this thread...just wanted to share as I do believe in this quote!!

 

[CMD-Ky]

I think that profit making entities are probably the only adequate and realistic source of funding for legal challenges. The companies would then control the tenor and direction of the litigation which may be a mixed bag. I inferred from a comment by Rolygate that CASAA may be unwilling to participate in any assistance from profit making entities.

While I can admire the integrity of that stance, I question the practicality of the stance. However, it is their organization and, oddly enough in our society these days, CASAA may value its integrity more than company money - -go figure [a joke, folks, don't go berserk anyone].

So, the solicitation would have to come from other consumers groups - preferably a large group. Say, ECF or a group who will remain unnamed..

I can't tell you all how much I appreciate the contributions to this conjecture from folks like AdriaD and CMD-Ky.

I humbly pose another question to my fellow vapors out there...

I'd really like to get behind a group who mounts a legal challenge to Vaping bans and taxes.

Do you think it's plausible to get financial backing for legal challenges from "Big Vapor?"

I see videos from folks like PBusardo touring vape product manufacturing facilities in China. It appears as though they want to keep our Vaping community happy.

I'd love to see these companies back up a Vapor Consumer Advocacy group of some sort to fight taxes & bans on a small municipality level to defeat this campaign of fear and extortion being waged against us.


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[CMD-Ky]

Yeah, that was my thought too, when Roly pointed it out; it';s really unfortunate, because it's harder to repeal bad laws than simply not make them in the first place, but what can ya do. We've already been over the vote better argument, but until someone can come up with something to replace our party system -- maybe a revolution? -- we're stuck with the voting options we're given by the political parties -- they are the first line in the election process, and they're the ones who decide who to put on the primary ticket -- I'm sure it's a very back-room affair.

Andria

Obviously, suit could not be filed. That being said, if organization waits for the passage of regulation, law or ordinance then you would be a year behind the action, bad spot. We know the general parameters of the proposals. The organization and funding should begin yesterday. If fact, the specter of a funded organized litigation group may cool the jets of some - especially locals. However, sitting and waiting to organize until the ink is on the paper is a ticket to lose.

 

[Vermonster13]

BT is lobbying in Vermont for vaping while also pushing for only tobacco favors. Some help we can live with out.

 

[englishmick]

I can't tell you all how much I appreciate the contributions to this conjecture from folks like AdriaD and CMD-Ky.

I humbly pose another question to my fellow vapors out there...

I'd really like to get behind a group who mounts a legal challenge to Vaping bans and taxes.

Do you think it's plausible to get financial backing for legal challenges from "Big Vapor?"

I see videos from folks like PBusardo touring vape product manufacturing facilities in China. It appears as though they want to keep our Vaping community happy.

I'd love to see these companies back up a Vapor Consumer Advocacy group of some sort to fight taxes & bans on a small municipality level to defeat this campaign of fear and extortion being waged against us.


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It's the way the world turns. We have to live with the levers we have. Big Vapor will decide how and when to get involved in legal action. So will CASAA and ACLU. We have to live with that or get involved in those organisations. Or start our own.

A new Vapor Advocacy group like you suggest would need dedicated people to set it up, and a huge amount of money and expertise. And everyone who might have an interest would also have their own opinions on the best way to proceed. Like whether to spend their time and money on fighting every law, or concentrate their fire on a handful of laws as an example. Should it go after public vaping laws or concentrate on laws that will stop vaping completely. A lot of vapers don't care about public vaping laws or think they are the least of our problems. Others think that is the thin end of the wedge and needs to be implacably opposed. Should we fight for a goal of ensuring that some form of vaping survives, or take an all or nothing approach.

There are a thousand opinions out there. People might not give money to a group that didn't take the approach they favor. Do we have a thousand groups representing all the possible approaches?

The good thing about existing groups, like vendor organisations or CASAA is that they have a cohesive agenda. If we want to change their approach then become active in those groups. Or start our own if we feel we can do better.

 

[DC2]

I'd love to see these companies back up a Vapor Consumer Advocacy group of some sort to fight taxes & bans on a small municipality level to defeat this campaign of fear and extortion being waged against us. k

If I were you I would start by contacting CASAA and getting their opinions...
Contact CASAA

Or you could start a new thread here in the CASAA subforum...
CASAA


I know there are vendors that are involved in efforts to accumulate money for legal battles.
But I think they are saving that money to fight the deeming regulations.

 

[DC2]

It's the way the world turns. We have to live with the levers we have. Big Vapor will decide how and when to get involved in legal action. So will CASAA and ACLU. We have to live with that or get involved in those organisations. Or start our own.

Just as a side note, CASAA is the organization that we started.

A new Vapor Advocacy group like you suggest would need dedicated people to set it up, and a huge amount of money and expertise. And everyone who might have an interest would also have their own opinions on the best way to proceed. Like whether to spend their time and money on fighting every law, or concentrate their fire on a handful of laws as an example. Should it go after public vaping laws or concentrate on laws that will stop vaping completely. A lot of vapers don't care about public vaping laws or think they are the least of our problems. Others think that is the thin end of the wedge and needs to be implacably opposed. Should we fight for a goal of ensuring that some form of vaping survives, or take an all or nothing approach.

There are a thousand opinions out there. People might not give money to a group that didn't take the approach they favor. Do we have a thousand groups representing all the possible approaches?

The good thing about existing groups, like vendor organisations or CASAA is that they have a cohesive agenda. If we want to change their approach then become active in those groups. Or start our own if we feel we can do better.

Absolutely brilliant post, and spot on.

 

[EJAB]

CASAA's past, present and future actions will have NO effect on the future of vaping. CASAA has NO influence when dealing with "BIG" business/government, which could care less about CASAA and their signature/letter based opinions. CASAA=FRUITLESS ENDEAVOR

EDIT: I do support CASAA, but I feel that they will have little to no effect on the future/regulations of ecigs.

 

[DrMA]

Here's a possible step in the fight against bans/taxes
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...your-comments-fda-re-vaping-witch-trials.html

 

[DC2]

CASAA's past, present and future actions will have NO effect on the future of vaping. CASAA has NO influence when dealing with "BIG" business/government, which could care less about CASAA and their signature/letter based opinions. CASAA=FRUITLESS ENDEAVOR

EDIT: I do support CASAA, but I feel that they will have little to no effect on the future/regulations of ecigs.

I might tend to agree to some extent that CASAA may have very little influence with Big Government.
Although the level of that influence is directly proportional to the number of members.


It should be noted that the FDA invited CASAA to meet with them for a listening session.
It will never be known if the FDA actually listened or not, or if they cared.

Also, don't forget that it was CASAA who initiated and funded one of our most important studies...
BMC Public Health | Full text | Peering through the mist: systematic review of what the chemistry of contaminants in electronic cigarettes tells us about health risks


I think one of the biggest things CASAA did was get the ball rolling five years ago...
I think their outreach to various players in Tobacco Harm Reduction was the impetus for bringing them together...

And now I see the diverse kinds of experts that CASAA has assembled for their new Board of Advisers...
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...a-officially-launches-its-board-advisors.html

I really can't help but be impressed with how far they have come...
And I'm eager to see where they are heading next.

 

[CMD-Ky]

They have little money, they are volunteers who also have to eat, they have too many supporters who want the organization to do something but who do little themselves.

CASAA's past, present and future actions will have NO effect on the future of vaping. CASAA has NO influence when dealing with "BIG" business/government, which could care less about CASAA and their signature/letter based opinions. CASAA=FRUITLESS ENDEAVOR

EDIT: I do support CASAA, but I feel that they will have little to no effect on the future/regulations of ecigs.

 

[V8porism]

I think that profit making entities are probably the only adequate and realistic source of funding for legal challenges. The companies would then control the tenor and direction of the litigation which may be a mixed bag. I inferred from a comment by Rolygate that CASAA may be unwilling to participate in any assistance from profit making entities.

While I can admire the integrity of that stance, I question the practicality of the stance. However, it is their organization and, oddly enough in our society these days, CASAA may value its integrity more than company money - -go figure [a joke, folks, don't go berserk anyone].

So, the solicitation would have to come from other consumers groups - preferably a large group. Say, ECF or a group who will remain unnamed..

It's the way the world turns. We have to live with the levers we have. Big Vapor will decide how and when to get involved in legal action. So will CASAA and ACLU. We have to live with that or get involved in those organisations. Or start our own.

A new Vapor Advocacy group like you suggest would need dedicated people to set it up, and a huge amount of money and expertise. And everyone who might have an interest would also have their own opinions on the best way to proceed. Like whether to spend their time and money on fighting every law, or concentrate their fire on a handful of laws as an example. Should it go after public vaping laws or concentrate on laws that will stop vaping completely. A lot of vapers don't care about public vaping laws or think they are the least of our problems. Others think that is the thin end of the wedge and needs to be implacably opposed. Should we fight for a goal of ensuring that some form of vaping survives, or take an all or nothing approach.

There are a thousand opinions out there. People might not give money to a group that didn't take the approach they favor. Do we have a thousand groups representing all the possible approaches?

The good thing about existing groups, like vendor organisations or CASAA is that they have a cohesive agenda. If we want to change their approach then become active in those groups. Or start our own if we feel we can do better.

I just signed up for CASAA. I should have worded my question differently. I think "Big Vapor" should be working with a group, like CASSA, to establish a united campaign to fight bans and taxes. There could perhaps be a third party group comprised of representatives from consumers, small vendors and large manufacturers.

Companies like Aspire are making a ton of money from us. They should provide financial support for legal challenges to bans and taxes.

 

[DC2]

I just signed up for CASAA.

I should have worded my question differently. I think "Big Vapor" should be working with a group, like CASSA, to establish a united campaign to fight bans and taxes. There could perhaps be a third party group comprised of representatives from consumers, small vendors and large manufacturers.

I believe your description of a third-party group describes SFATA pretty well...
SFATA | E-Cigarette Association Membership, Join SFATA

If I am not mistaken, they are the one's doing most of the preparation to fight coming legal challenges.
Although CASAA has also tried to lay some groundwork for possible legal actions in the future.


I don't know whether or not ANY of the various players are looking into legal action to fight bans and taxes.
This is why I suggest that perhaps you might wish to ask them.

 

[V8porism]

I believe your description of a third-party group describes SFATA pretty well...
SFATA | E-Cigarette Association Membership, Join SFATA

If I am not mistaken, they are the one's doing most of the preparation to fight coming legal challenges.
Although CASAA has also tried to lay some groundwork for possible legal actions in the future.


I don't know whether or not ANY of the various players are looking into legal action to fight bans and taxes.
This is why I suggest that perhaps you might wish to ask them.

I'll definitely make inquiries. I only see small vendors listed as members of SFATA. Are any of the big companies supporting these folks?

I just sent emails to Aspire and Kanger asking if they are planning to provide any type of support for efforts here to fight bans and taxes. I'll post any and all replies.These companies should be helping us. We are buying enough products from them.

If R.J. Reynolds and the rest of Big Tobacco have their way, these Chinese hardware companies will be very low on customers after we are taxed and banned out of mainstream vaping. It would behoove them to help unless they plan on manufacturing Vuse for Big Red.

Reynolds American wants FDA to ban vapor e-cigs - Winston-Salem Journal: Local Business

 

[zoiDman]

I'll definitely make inquiries. I only see small vendors listed as members of SFATA. Are any of the big companies supporting these folks?

I just sent emails to Aspire and Kanger asking if they are planning to provide any type of support for efforts here to fight bans and taxes. I'll post any and all replies. These companies should be helping us. We are buying enough products from them.

...

Right On V8porism.

 

[Woofer]

... These companies should be helping us. ...

If R.J. Reynolds and the rest of Big Tobacco have their way, these Chinese hardware companies will be very low on customers after we are taxed and banned out of mainstream vaping.

I think these companies should be helping us and themselves, it is a blurry line.
Do remember that the USA is only 319 million of 7.3 billion people worldwide.

 

[V8porism]

I think these companies should be helping us and themselves, it is a blurry line.
Do remember that the USA is only 319 million of 7.3 billion people worldwide.

I just got a response from Aspire!

"We would certainly like to support you fighting the bans and taxes, what do you need us to do? Post an article?"

I'll touch base with a few suggestions for them in the morning. I think it's great that they are willing to help & to connect with us here on the ECF.

I have good vibes about this [emoji4]!


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[V8porism]

Can anyone from CASAA and SFATA suggest a few questions for us to ask them, in terms of requesting support?

What does everyone else think? We've had some great ideas here. It's time to stand up & get the ball rolling toward creating a United front. We are all in this together.


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[Rizzyking]

Most Chinese company's will do what they always have find ways round bans and things like that be it by changing packaging or labeling them as gifts and including little letters in the package to enforce the gift appearence they are unlikely en masse to directly involve themselves in any form of legal action but we can hope.