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You can get flavoring from the supermarket and PG/VG from a pharmacy. Thats the easiest liquid to create. The concern is the availability of pure liquid nicotine.
E liquid is surprisingly easy to create. Consider food as a prime example. Any of us can try to cook, but how many of us can cook, and how many can cook well. Thats why places such as McDonalds to five star eateries are so successful; they have recipes and processes that work and their offerings are unique and taste great to some and take the time and effort out of it.
On the other hand, if you are stranded in the woods, you not only get very creative with what you eat but you also get better at preparing it (if you make it
). Food aside though, e liquid is the same way.
its 0mg, if you are a 0mg vapor there is nothing to worry about. the big concern is that e cigs are being used medicinally through nicotine supplementation, so if you have no nicotine, no problem.
the image of Krusty the Clown covered in nic patches comes to mind.
I recommend Thank You For Smoking as an awesome movie to watch. Among other things, pretty good take on the patches.
I am actually looking forward to the FDA deciding what they are going to do. Once they do we can figure out and take whatever steps we need to, until then we can only guess so it is a crap shoot. For 2 years now this has been hanging over everyone, from the vets who have been vaping from the start to the newest vaper just starting and looking at this like ... am I going to do.
At the end of the day tho, we can't do anything until we know.
At the end of the day tho, we can't do anything until we know.
i'm not sure if this has been posted anywhere within the forums and i dont want to be repetitive so someone please let me know if it is, and if this is a good idea but here it goes.
a couple of ecig companies are owned by or headquartered in the united states. blu (owned by lorillard of greensboro, nc) and logic (headquartered in NJ). i was thinking of starting a thread with the names of the companies in the US and their congressmen so people could write them, informing them of vaping. it would be smart to not even mention ecig, but personal vaporizer, quit smoking etc...
are there any other large ecig companies in the US that employ a significant amount of people here?
if there are a couple of other companies in the united states, especially in other states besides NC and NJ then it may be good to get some personal testimony out there and to inform what appears to be our rather uninformed congressmen. this whole thing could be a long shot, but let me know what you guys think and repsond here or PM me. it might not help to get many emails going, but it couldn't hurt at this point.
a couple of ecig companies are owned by or headquartered in the united states. blu (owned by lorillard of greensboro, nc) and logic (headquartered in NJ). i was thinking of starting a thread with the names of the companies in the US and their congressmen so people could write them, informing them of vaping. it would be smart to not even mention ecig, but personal vaporizer, quit smoking etc...
are there any other large ecig companies in the US that employ a significant amount of people here?
if there are a couple of other companies in the united states, especially in other states besides NC and NJ then it may be good to get some personal testimony out there and to inform what appears to be our rather uninformed congressmen. this whole thing could be a long shot, but let me know what you guys think and repsond here or PM me. it might not help to get many emails going, but it couldn't hurt at this point.
ProVape is probably the most well-respected, but I want to bring up a point that adds to what you're talking about. There are a good amount of people (>100,000 but still a good number) that make their money through e cig business in the US. Many US businesses involved are successful because IP, or intellectual property. The quality of the ProVari coonmpared to something like an L-Rider Lambo (I own both, so I can say from experience) is not only visually apparent but apparent through use. If legislation passes, these products will either be lost or outsourced.
What makes vaping so great is the global connectivity of the practice. I bought an ERA from the phillipines to be used on a ProVari, made in the US, and a GGTS, made in Greece. While Made in China has a certain stigma, a lot of these products carry national pride due to the amount of custom work, planning, and care that goes into them.
ProVape and US companies that build and design their own products may choose to move to Canada or other supportive countries as the restrictions in the US will not stop global sales, but the biggest danger is the FDA not recognizing how vaping can actually kill cancer caused by smoking, create jobs that actually create quality products, reduce cigarette litter, reduce medical costs, and support a hobby that has made me smarter (I rolled a cigarette once, but comparing that to using an RBA is peanuts).
I would go through the vendor list here and write them.
For the record, I voted for Romney.
For those who think there will be no problem getting hardware:
CASAA: CASAA submits comments to the FDA
Just a few excerpts I don't think are a problem to quote:
".....law that the Agency intends to apply to other tobacco products (including e-cigarettes):
Section 201(rr)(4), for example, prohibits the marketing of a tobacco product in combination with any other article or product regulated under the FD&C Act (including a drug, biologic, food, cosmetic, medical device, or a dietary supplement).
This is disturbing, as it indicates that the FDA may continue its efforts to ban e-cigarettes by using the argument that e-cigarette liquid is being delivered in combination with a battery and atomizer."
Tobacco products marketed as of February 15, 2007, which have not been modified since then are considered grandfathered and are not subject to premarket review as new tobacco products. A tobacco product that is not grandfathered is considered a new tobacco product, and it is adulterated and misbranded under the FD&C Act, and therefore, subject to enforcement action, unless it has received premarket authorization or been found substantially equivalent. FDA has already developed draft guidance explaining how manufacturers can request a determination from FDA that a tobacco product is grandfathered.
"....... applying these inappropriate controls would have the effect of outlawing all except for the first primitive models which had leaky cartridges, batteries that died too quickly, and other quality control issues."
CASAA: CASAA submits comments to the FDA
Just a few excerpts I don't think are a problem to quote:
".....law that the Agency intends to apply to other tobacco products (including e-cigarettes):
Section 201(rr)(4), for example, prohibits the marketing of a tobacco product in combination with any other article or product regulated under the FD&C Act (including a drug, biologic, food, cosmetic, medical device, or a dietary supplement).
This is disturbing, as it indicates that the FDA may continue its efforts to ban e-cigarettes by using the argument that e-cigarette liquid is being delivered in combination with a battery and atomizer."
Tobacco products marketed as of February 15, 2007, which have not been modified since then are considered grandfathered and are not subject to premarket review as new tobacco products. A tobacco product that is not grandfathered is considered a new tobacco product, and it is adulterated and misbranded under the FD&C Act, and therefore, subject to enforcement action, unless it has received premarket authorization or been found substantially equivalent. FDA has already developed draft guidance explaining how manufacturers can request a determination from FDA that a tobacco product is grandfathered.
"....... applying these inappropriate controls would have the effect of outlawing all except for the first primitive models which had leaky cartridges, batteries that died too quickly, and other quality control issues."
I recently paid $72 for 500ml of 100mg nicotine. Didn't open it, just double bagged it and put it in the freezer. By my calculations, at my current rate of consumption and strength (12mg) I can mix it with 0mg juice and taper my nic over time, and get about 3 to 4 years use from that one bottle. I planned on vaping down to 6mg for the rest of my life, never really quitting nic, but 3 or 4 years for $72? Cheap insurance.
This is where it Starts to get Grey. And Free Market Capitalism collides with Government Regulations.
Say I make a LED with a 510 thread on it. Can I sell it attached to an eGo Battery and call it an "eGo Flashlight"?
Of course, I make no mention of e-Cigarettesor Vaping. And my website has No Mention of e-Cigarettes or Vaping. Just eGo Flashlights, Lavatube Flashlights, Provari Flashlights. And of course, Replacement Batteries for the Flashlights.
There is Really Two Parts to a Regulation. There is the Regulation and then there is the Enforcement of the Regulation. How receptive and on what Legal Grounds would the TTB have to try to go around Closing Flashlight sales on the Internet because the Flashlights have a 510 LED on them?
Atomizers, Cartomizers and Clearomizers are a bit Dicier.
If they are sold to Adults with the Disclaimer that they Can Not be used with any form of Tobacoo, can the FDA / TTB affect their sale. Heck, there are PV's sold online which Vaporize things that are Illegal that we can't talk about here. If they can be sold, how can a Cartomizer and an eGo Flashlight not be sold?
Remember, a Regulation is Only Effective if it can be Enforced. I foresee problems Enforcing some "Hardware" Restrictions.
BTW - Don't Bank on ANYTHING I have mentioned here. Having a Stash of Cartomizer, RBA's and Clearomizers is Not a bad idea.
ya had me.. till ya said Romney...
Ya have a link of where to buy? Thanx, I'm with ya 100% on everything you said... I recently purchased 'bout 70 carto's... every couple of weeks I'll stock up on more of my favorite juices etc.. until March...
The last thing I wanna do is go to a Bad 'hood knock on some door & stick money in hole to get my fix...
Alan
See ya all at the VapeNY thingy with cash in hand
There are cheaper sources, but this vendor was recommended to me by an artisan juice maker as the best of the best for clean, unflavored Nic.
Best Electronic Cigarettes and E-Liquid - MyFreedomSmokes.com
They had a 20% off sale going on for yesterday and today, but sold out. It's normally $80, but they will have another sale soon. At 20%, you'd pay $64. You can watch this thread for it:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/myfreedomsmokes/39257-new-coupon-code.html
Bear in mind that high quality PG based Nicuid generally lasts only two years under normal conditions. So getting a liter is probably not practical unless you vape 24mg.
There are 3 things that degenerate nicotine. Light, heat and oxygen. Light and heat are easy to eliminate. Oxygen is a little trickier, but can be done. Here's how.
Put your empty fill bottle, cap off, a funnel, and your nicquid in a large, clear plastic bag. Use a small vacuum to suck the air completely out of the bag. Use a product called "Private Reserve". It's a wine preserver, basically CO2 and Argon in a can. Fill the bag with only enough inert gas to let you manipulate the stuff in it and seal it tight. Through the bag, remove the cap from your big bottle , and fill your little one. Put the cap tightly back on your nicquid. Putting marbles in it to displace the removed liquid is best to prevent air from getting to your nic, but it'll get trickier to use when it gets low on juice. Argon is heavier than air, so you should be OK without the marbles. Open the bag and put your big bottle back in your freezer. You'll get well more than 2 years from it.
Oh, and since this isn't the DIY forum, WARNING!!!
100mg nicotine liquid is EXTREMELY toxic. 1ml soaked into the skin of a child or animal can kill. 2ml in an adult could do it too. WEAR RUBBER GLOVES, GOGGLES, AND A WATERPROOF APRON when handling this potency of liquid. Seriously, it is majorly dangerous. Read the precautions in the DIY forum before even attempting to handle this stuff.
There are 3 things that degenerate nicotine. Light, heat and oxygen. Light and heat are easy to eliminate. Oxygen is a little trickier, but can be done. Here's how.
Put your empty fill bottle, cap off, a funnel, and your nicquid in a large, clear plastic bag. Use a small vacuum to suck the air completely out of the bag. Use a product called "Private Reserve". It's a wine preserver, basically CO2 and Argon in a can. Fill the bag with only enough inert gas to let you manipulate the stuff in it and seal it tight. Through the bag, remove the cap from your big bottle , and fill your little one. Put the cap tightly back on your nicquid. Putting marbles in it to displace the removed liquid is best to prevent air from getting to your nic, but it'll get trickier to use when it gets low on juice. Argon is heavier than air, so you should be OK without the marbles. Open the bag and put your big bottle back in your freezer. You'll get well more than 2 years from it.
Oh, and since this isn't the DIY forum, WARNING!!!
100mg nicotine liquid is EXTREMELY toxic. 1ml soaked into the skin of a child or animal can kill. 2ml in an adult could do it too. WEAR RUBBER GLOVES, GOGGLES, AND A WATERPROOF APRON when handling this potency of liquid. Seriously, it is majorly dangerous. Read the precautions in the DIY forum before even attempting to handle this stuff.
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I guess you could do all that?
But one of the Retailers here on the ECF tested Nicotine Base after 6 months and found a Very Small drop in Nicotine mg’s when stored in a Cool Dark place.
Maybe my 100mg will be 95mg after one year. And only 90mg after two years.
I’m not too worried about it. I’m doing the Ramp Down to 0mg or near that anyway.
I said CAN be done. I didn't say SHOULD be done, or MUST be done. Seriously, pay attention.
As someone who lives in a country where the sale of liquid nicotine is illegal (I think it can still be bought by farmers as a pesticide) it is possible that you could face stricter regulations.
Outright ban? Nope, nicotine is used in a bunch of different products for various uses.
Tighter regulations essentially killing off the pre-nic'd e-juice market? Possible, not likely, but possible.
Read someone saying "taxes on PG and VG." Impossible. Both are used in food, medicine, shampoo, toothpaste, cupcakes, the list is enormous.
The possibility of a pseudo ban is real. Making the sale of nicotine liquid require a pharmaceutical license, or some other form of document. They could regulate the strength of nicotine sold (like the EU is attempting.)
These things could become a reality. As for the amount of possible tax on nic liquids: You haven't experienced insanity until you've paid $22 for a pack of cigarettes because your government has decided that a $4 pack of cigarettes needs to cost 5x that amount because you put a strain on public healthcare.
If e-juice containing nicotine gets some sort of tax levied against it, you'll pay an extra few cents to $2 for a bottle of juice. Isn't that better than not having the option to buy it? I would welcome a nic juice tax in Australia if it meant I could buy nic here and I didn't have to import it from the US and China.
I don't think a lot of these things will come to pass, but there is no harm in buying a few bottles of 100mg nic and shoving it in the freezer just in case.
Outright ban? Nope, nicotine is used in a bunch of different products for various uses.
Tighter regulations essentially killing off the pre-nic'd e-juice market? Possible, not likely, but possible.
Read someone saying "taxes on PG and VG." Impossible. Both are used in food, medicine, shampoo, toothpaste, cupcakes, the list is enormous.
The possibility of a pseudo ban is real. Making the sale of nicotine liquid require a pharmaceutical license, or some other form of document. They could regulate the strength of nicotine sold (like the EU is attempting.)
These things could become a reality. As for the amount of possible tax on nic liquids: You haven't experienced insanity until you've paid $22 for a pack of cigarettes because your government has decided that a $4 pack of cigarettes needs to cost 5x that amount because you put a strain on public healthcare.
If e-juice containing nicotine gets some sort of tax levied against it, you'll pay an extra few cents to $2 for a bottle of juice. Isn't that better than not having the option to buy it? I would welcome a nic juice tax in Australia if it meant I could buy nic here and I didn't have to import it from the US and China.
I don't think a lot of these things will come to pass, but there is no harm in buying a few bottles of 100mg nic and shoving it in the freezer just in case.
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