Hussar Project X RTA Clone (by Coppervape)

[Cool_Breeze]

The only other atomizers I'm currently using are Doggy Styles. I opted to get an X as I liked the deck arrangement. I'm strickly MTL here...moderate wattage (usually), but high nic...flavorless.

Having said that, I find the X takes about 2x the wattage of the Doggies to provide a similar hit. Do others notice that the X takes more wattage than other atomizers to provide your desired level of vape experience?

 

[AngeNZ]

The only other atomizers I'm currently using are Doggy Styles. I opted to get an X as I liked the deck arrangement. I'm strickly MTL here...moderate wattage (usually), but high nic...flavorless.

Having said that, I find the X takes about 2x the wattage of the Doggies to provide a similar hit. Do others notice that the X takes more wattage than other atomizers to provide your desired level of vape experience?

I'm a doggy user too - exclusively until I tried the X. But I know you prefer more TH, whereas I'm doing all I can in the doggy (really low coil) to avoid that.

Wattage wise - I'm exactly the same as I was. I'm using TC mode, but I was using that with the doggy. I did up my preheat wattage a few watts when using MTL clapton coils in the X - but with 6 wrap 2.5mm id ss316l wire, it's the same.

Could it just be that your big coil needs more power to heat it, when compared to a 2mm or 2.5mm id in the doggy?

 

[AngeNZ]

@ShowMeTwice @AngeNZ I watched Klause's vid and now I'm psyched to try the short wick method. I also liked the top cap/fill method on the MTL better than the regular X. I want that top cap on my X.

Yeah - I love the look of the top of the MTL X. I forced @ShowMeTwice to make a FrankenX RTA from his MTL X and regular X

The results were very interesting - if you wanna peep. About the only thing wrong with the MTL version, is the proprietary drip tip

 

[ShowMeTwice]

Having said that, I find the X takes about 2x the wattage of the Doggies to provide a similar hit. Do others notice that the X takes more wattage than other atomizers to provide your desired level of vape experience?

I'm a Doggy user too. I'm at the same wattage with both atty's. Also the same settings in TC mode with both Doggy and X.

 

[ShowMeTwice]

Yeah - I love the look of the top of the MTL X. I forced @ShowMeTwice to make a FrankenX RTA from his MTL X and regular X

The results were very interesting - if you wanna peep. About the only thing wrong with the MTL version, is the proprietary drip tip

I forgot all about FrankenX. That was fun.

I don't get why Hussar went with a proprietary DT on the MTL X. All they needed to do was the deck redesign for the various MTL AF inserts.

 

[Mordacai]

@Cool_Breeze, possibly a combination of airflow and a high mass coil.

It seems the optimal coil ID for the X is 2.5mm.

You could maybe try a Tripod (Ulton)?

 

[Cool_Breeze]

I'm a doggy user too - exclusively until I tried the X. But I know you prefer more TH, whereas I'm doing all I can in the doggy (really low coil) to avoid that.

Wattage wise - I'm exactly the same as I was. I'm using TC mode, but I was using that with the doggy. I did up my preheat wattage a few watts when using MTL clapton coils in the X - but with 6 wrap 2.5mm id ss316l wire, it's the same.

Could it just be that your big coil needs more power to heat it, when compared to a 2mm or 2.5mm id in the doggy?

Hmm...@AngeNZ... I haven't tried everything, but my experience has been the coil 'down' provides 'more' hit...the air is more certain to strike the coil & wick dead on. Going by memory (which isn't that great anymore), the higher the wick, the airier (less dense) the vapor. I've gotten into a routine mode where I don't experiment too much. lol...like my work, when I got to a point where I had forgotten more than I currently knew, I figured it was about retirement time.

Yes, the big wad is no doubt a 'factor,' but I started out with a 3mm ID and it just wouldn't produce 'for me.' I don't fiddle like I used to. I use 3mm in the doggies...'maybe' 3.5 at times. See *below also.

@Cool_Breeze, possibly a combination of airflow and a high mass coil.

It seems the optimal coil ID for the X is 2.5mm.

You could maybe try a Tripod (Ulton)?

What determines 'optimal' for you? Regarding the Tripod, I'm not much into trying new equipment anymore. It was a stretch for me to get the X. I did because I thought the coil/screw alignment would be easier to work with than the doggies as well as the positives people were finding with the X.

*Someone besides myself agreed that they had to up their wattage to get what they were after with the X. I'm not up to digging that post out just now. I may be do for a wick change before long. Maybe I'll find some play time though other matters have most of my attention as of late. As well, using temperature control may lessen the differences between wick/coils and mods(?). Flat-top as it were...

No purchases planned at present, but perhaps new batteries after the 1st of the year. I use all Pico 75's at present. 3 in daily rotation, 1 with CBD in the tank (haven't used it in a while) and 1 with some flavoring...gets only occasional use...parts and pieces of several others about (kind thanks to a benefactor)...future projects if I every get some clear area for that type of work. I use the 'Smart' mode on the Picos...usually in the 10 to 12 watt range on the Doggies. Up to 15 at times (when should probably change the wick(?).

I've been away from the hobby aspect of vaping for a while. I've just let it become routine as our former activity was.

 

[muth]

@muth, when you have it locked in place and your juice flow open. Pull on the tank section to lift it off the base a little, noticed that if it's pushed all the way down you start getting liquid flow issues.

Okay, I tried that but I don't think it budged. Seems very tight. I tried Klaus's short wick method and I'm not getting dry hits anymore. Seems to be working for me, fingers crossed.

 

[muth]

@muth - Appology offered as that reference wasn't pointed at you. Rather it was commentary on the notion that coil and wicking need to be Zachery Tso for the X to work. While nobody has said precisely that, it seems inferable from some posts. I offered a description of my build as it is very far from Zackery Tso. Then again, it could be that I'm not paying close enough attention.

Ah well thx for clarifying. I was starting to feel like a loser

 

[Mordacai]

No worries @Cool_Breeze, it's just the fact that a 2.5mm coiling rod fits perfectly across the base is a big clue to optimal coil size.

And what I was also thinking that the way that the air hits the coil, affects the experience or quality of the vape. Even I've noticed this with the airflow hitting the side of the coil, it's different but nice.

Tripod is a bottom airflow RTA that can be setup for MTL, DTL or frankenvape. It has a larger chunkier kayfun type deck, airflow inserts for MTL, chamber and chimney reducer.

Got a couple myself and still going through a love hate relationship with them, I love them and they hate me. Just got to get the wicking down right with them, but the way you build is supposed to be exactly like the way you build a KF.

 

[Janusz]

Idk, SMT, I wick it like I wick most my coils and don't have that problem. The only time I wick more tight in the coil is when I use rayon.

I also think that your problem is not too tight wick in coil. More probably too much cotton in wells. But even that is unlikely... maybe it is somewhat contributing a little but I think main problem is too big/fat o-rings that rest outside yellow tank over wicking holes. Those holes are quite small (a little over 2.5mm ID). If those tiny o-rings are too fat and are pressed by tank they flatten and partially block juice flow.

On one of my extension tank JFC was very tight so I decided to inspect those o-rings. On my good extension I could smoothly insert 2.5 id coiling rod but on tight one I felt significant resistance even with 2mm ID coiling rod.
I removed those 2 tiny o-rings for even closer inspection and when I compared them with spare ones that came with regular tank they were visible fatter.

I think I was not getting dry hits because from this (tight JFC) tank because I use short wick method so inside wells there was always reserve liquid but If I would fill wells fully with cotton wicking through partially blocked wicking holes would be too slow. Placing back those tiny "too fat o-rings" is quite chalenging but even the thinner one are not easy.

Another possibility is that holes in metal part do not align with holes in plastic when in position full open...but you can also check this with coiling rod at the same time. Unfortunatelly those are clones I suspect that original X is much better cause nobody would bother spent over $100 for Hussar.

Right now both my extension have smooth JFC and wick like a champ.

 

[Mordacai]

@muth, pulling on the top section only moves it about 1/2 a millimetre off the base. But it's just enough to get the job done.

 

[Janusz]

I use 3mm in the doggies...'maybe' 3.5 at times.

.....

 

[Cool_Breeze]

Do many folks believe that the 'clones' sold by fasttech and such are 'significantly' different from the 'originals?' if so, what do you base that on? Has anyone done a 1:1 comparison?

Could it be that the so-call 'clones' are actually contracted by the original designers? One can only sell so many $100+ 'original' atomizers, but may be able to sell many times more $20 or below 'licensed' (formaly or informally) manufacturer. Perhaps it is easier and thus more economical to set up big runs to be offered by 3rd party vendors.

Does someone have knowledge of just what goes on behind the scenes of design and production of these somewhat expensive Eastern European atomizers and how similar or actual atomizer become available out of China as substantial discounts?

I'll grant that early on, designs were ripped-off. I'm not convinced in all cases that is what is going on today.

If someone has actual knowledge, please enlighten us.

 

[muth]

I also think that your problem is not too tight wick in coil. More probably too much cotton in wells. But even that is unlikely... maybe it is somewhat contributing a little but I think main problem is too big/fat o-rings that rest outside yellow tank over wicking holes. Those holes are quite small (a little over 2.5mm ID). If those tiny o-rings are too fat and are pressed by tank they flatten and partially block juice flow.

On one of my extension tank JFC was very tight so I decided to inspect those o-rings. On my good extension I could smoothly insert 2.5 id coiling rod but on tight one I felt significant resistance even with 2mm ID coiling rod.
I removed those 2 tiny o-rings for even closer inspection and when I compared them with spare ones that came with regular tank they were visible fatter.

I think I was not getting dry hits because from this (tight JFC) tank because I use short wick method so inside wells there was always reserve liquid but If I would fill wells fully with cotton wicking through partially blocked wicking holes would be too slow. Placing back those tiny "too fat o-rings" is quite chalenging but even the thinner one are not easy.

Another possibility is that holes in metal part do not align with holes in plastic when in position full open...but you can also check this with coiling rod at the same time. Unfortunatelly those are clones I suspect that original X is much better cause nobody would bother spent over $100 for Hussar.

Right now both my extension have smooth JFC and wick like a champ.

Bingo! I appreciate your observations. I was having similar suspicions and looked at the JFC holes. I'm glad you had the patience (and the courage) to remove the o-rings! And reinstall! For now, the shorter wick is working much better but I still suspect there are plenty other issues going on with this clone. Next time I have it apart I'll look at the things you mentioned. I might have more questions after that.

 

[muth]

Do many folks believe that the 'clones' sold by fasttech and such are 'significantly' different from the 'originals?' if so, what do you base that on? Has anyone done a 1:1 comparison?

Could it be that the so-call 'clones' are actually contracted by the original designers? One can only sell so many $100+ 'original' atomizers, but may be able to sell many times more $20 or below 'licensed' (formaly or informally) manufacturer. Perhaps it is easier and thus more economical to set up big runs to be offered by 3rd party vendors.

Does someone have knowledge of just what goes on behind the scenes of design and production of these somewhat expensive Eastern European atomizers and how similar or actual atomizer become available out of China as substantial discounts?

I'll grant that early on, designs were ripped-off. I'm not convinced in all cases that is what is going on today.

If someone has actual knowledge, please enlighten us.

I can answer in brief and then I have to run off to work but it's a great question and I suspect your answer could be found on the FT forums.

Some clones are 1:1, some attempt but screw up on the tolerances or just plain bad machining/materials. Some are purposely designed with some changes (as in the old KF line of clones), and some are better than the OG as with the SJMY KF V5 and the copper Pegasus by Vapetech . I have the last two and can attest for that. So can certain reviewers.

I wouldn't know about contracts between the original designers and the Chinese clone factories but I suspect that when an atty is designed in EU, US and commissioned to be manufactured in a Chinese factory, they would have all the designs at their disposal anyway. Whether they have an agreement with the OG or they steal them, Idk. But I think your guess is the most realistic. As for the OGs that are actually manufactured in the country of origin, how do they work with the cloners. Expensive OGs have limited runs. How can they possibly make a profit if they don't set up agreements with the cloners?

I'm late, gotta run!........

 

[Cool_Breeze]

I suspect that many atomizers are done to a large part on automated milling, etc. machines. If that is the case, might files be provided by the original producers? That is spectulation on my part as I know little of the machining realm. Some parts, such as orings may not be exactly the same as originals, but hey...I really don't know. A lot of Chinese manufacturing is done on contract. Does that apply to atomizers..?

 

[Cool_Breeze]

No worries @Cool_Breeze, it's just the fact that a 2.5mm coiling rod fits perfectly across the base is a big clue to optimal coil size. ...

...Tripod is a bottom airflow RTA that can be setup for MTL, DTL or frankenvape. It has a larger chunkier kayfun type deck, airflow inserts for MTL, chamber and chimney reducer.

Perhaps key is the understanding of 'optimal.' Surely, as you illustrate the fit of a 2.5mm coiling rod is a convenience for building.

I think of 'optimal' coil size as that which best provides the particular user's experience while vaping. As well, 'for me' the vaping experience seems to be enhanced by the directness (shortest distance?) of the air onto the coil/wick assembly, though there may be additional variables in the air-coil/wick assembly part of the matter.

As far as the Tripod is concerned, I've been quite enjoying the simplicity of the Doggies. ...few parts, ease of use, not very fiddly though as I've expressed elsewhere, the coil/screw arrangment doesn't seem (for lack of a better term) optimal.

 

[stols001]

I am going to bet a lot of the clones are based on (or even made from) similar equipment. Maybe not all of them. I will say the worst clone I ever bought was a Kabuki clone (didn't need it, was curious) and I must say it was fairly evident that it was made in the good old USA and the did not do a good job. To put it mildly.

I have paid a lot for a lot of things and I have paid my dues I think. I just can't buy original EVERYTHING. I mean, I wish I could and etc.. But it's hard.

Anna

 

[muth]

I suspect that many atomizers are done to a large part on automated milling, etc. machines. If that is the case, might files be provided by the original producers? That is spectulation on my part as I know little of the machining realm. Some parts, such as orings may not be exactly the same as originals, but hey...I really don't know. A lot of Chinese manufacturing is done on contract. Does that apply to atomizers..?

You would think so and you would also think that the Chinese would be good at running CNC machines. From what I've seen of Chinese factory operations, they seem quite militaristic but maybe the vape factories are more fun and relaxed