I have an idea, can YOU tell me how to make it?

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WillyB

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... Yes, you need a draw-down resistor (about 2-4 meg would be fine) between the source and gate, to draw it down when yer not pushing the tac switch. Also, add a 1K resistor in line with the tac switch to control current thru the switch.


Alan
I don't think that's the way to go. You need a pulldown of about 1 - 10k, no larger, and there is no reason to "add a 1K resistor in line with the tac switch to control current thru the switch", the pulldown will do that. Similar to the way a single resistor on the negative leg of an LED limits current.
 

xLowEndx

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I don't think that's the way to go. You need a pulldown of about 1 - 10k, no larger, and there is no reason to "add a 1K resistor in line with the tac switch to control current thru the switch", the pulldown will do that. Similar to the way a single resistor on the negative leg of an LED limits current.

I guess I'll try both maybe, I wish I knew more about this stuff lol
 

asnider123

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I don't think that's the way to go. You need a pulldown of about 1 - 10k, no larger, and there is no reason to "add a 1K resistor in line with the tac switch to control current thru the switch", the pulldown will do that. Similar to the way a single resistor on the negative leg of an LED limits current.

You are right, I just personally use the same basic circuit, no matter whether it's a tact switch or touch-switch circuit. There's no harm in using a larger pull-down resistor, works fine in my experience and besides I bought a whole bucket full of them :) Besides, I may be wrong, but I think it may limit the Source - Gate current, improving battery life (though probably not very much). Your whole goal is to pull your gate back to B- to unlatch the FET.

Regarding the resistor on the tac switch, I have built them with and without. Seem to work equally well either way. Again, the resistor would limit B+ to gate current, which may improve the life of the switch. The important thing to consider is that, if you DO use the switch resistor, then your pull-down resistor must my way higher (like 2-4M) or the FET does wierd things (it doesn't completely activate)

Well, that's my 2 cents anyway :)
 

jrm850

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You're both right. In a higher performance circuit with fast switching speed requirements, like a pwm vv mod, I would choose the lower value resistors and put a gate resistor in line to prevent "Ringing". I generally use a 10ohm for my gates but only becasue that's what I have read as a good value over the years. I don't know how to calculate the appropriate value, and I don't have a fast enough scope to actually see this phenomenon. The texbooks say it has something to do with a 2nd order response but that's where my eyes glazed over. :) Maybe one of the EEs here can explain it. In this application the switching speeds are on a geological scale compared to what the mosfets are capable of so just about any pulldown value should eventually get the gate closed, and a gate resistor probably doesn't make any percievable difference. A 1k pulldown will draw 5ma while idling so the battery life would be slightly shorter and your circuit a little warmer. Either way works for me.
 

jrm850

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I guess I'll try both maybe, I wish I knew more about this stuff lol

There is a great book that someone gave me years ago called "Practical Electronics for Inventors". It's a good blend of dumbed down, but thorough, explanations. Its laid out well and easy to find whatyou are looking for. I recommend it highly to anyone just getting started.
 

jrm850

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So is there any way to make that 5ma less to improve the battery life? more resistance?

Actually, I'm wrong about the 5ma at idle. It will only draw that when the switch is closed. Sorry about the bad info. To answer your question, just use ohms law. Plug whatever voltage you are using and the resistor. It's a direct short through the resistor when the switch is closed.
 

CraigHB

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A bunch of different topics brought up so far. I'd like to discuss all of them.

The draw from your gate drive is going to be insignificant compared to the draw of an atomizer. So, whatever the value of your pull up/down, it's not going to have any noticeable effect on battery life. It's really a non-issue in that regard. The main thing you want to concern yourself with is any current draw while the device is inactive. A full time current draw of even a few mA will have a noticeable impact on run time.

For a simple mod circuit, there normally would not be any idle draw on the battery since the switch opens the circuit completely. The leakage of the MOSFET gate is a barely measurable current. If you bypass the switch with other electronics, then you have a different situation. That's not typically the case for a basic atomizer circuit, but for more complex circuits such as those that utilize a micro-controller, idle current draw becomes a major concern.

Several of the N-channel touch switch diagrams I've seen here show a 1k resistor in series with the touch pad and pull down resistor. I don't really seen any function for that resistor. It's going to have zero effect as ESD protection and is redundant as far as operation of the switch. I don't understand why it's located there. To protect the positive pad from shorts for an N-channel touch switch, the 1k resistor needs to be between the the battery and the pad. For a P-channel touch switch, there's no reason to add any resistor other than a pull up.

Employing a PTC fuse allows you to safely run an unprotected IMR cell. Some people are under the mistaken impression that IMR cells are perfectly safe. They are not. They can vent the same as a regular ICO cell. The difference is that it takes a much more severe condition for that to happen.

Ideally, an IMR cell should be protected from short circuits. A PTC fuse is a quick and easy way to do that. Atomizer and cartomizer shorts are actually not that uncommon. I've had a couple myself. You want the fuse as close to battery positive or negative as practical to protect it from as much of the wiring as possible. You might as well cover wiring faults as well. Positive or negative doesn't matter, but conventionally, the fuse would be located on the positive battery terminal. Personally, I feel the presence of a fuse negates the need for a master switch, but that's also a matter of preference.

MOSFETs have an amount of capacitance at the gate terminal. Since it varies with current flow, the value is given as gate charge instead of capacitance in the data sheet. It can be a primary consideration for some applications. Since the effects of capacitance become more pronounced with higher resistance, it's been mentioned when using the very high value resistors required for a touch switch.

Gate capacitance dampens switching response making it look like a ramped up and ramped down delay. For a switch that has to turn on and off quickly, gate capacitance can slow down response enough to make a circuit non-functional. However, we're talking about reductions in the hundredths of a second. Maybe a tenth of a second for a worst case. I really don't think that is going to be an issue for turning an atomizer off and on with a touch switch.

Ringing is another consideration that is related to gate capacitance, but doesn't really apply here. On a scope, circuit ringing looks like the sound waves of a ringing bell, hence the appropriate name. It's a type of response that has to do with a circuit's resonant frequency and is characterized by a combination of resistance, inductance, and capacitance. All circuits have some amount of resonance, even if very small. Ringing can become an issue even at fairly low frequencies. In the case of a touch switch, it's not going to come into play. When limited in consideration to the step input of a manual switch, there's not enough inductance in the circuit for ringing to become an issue.
 
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asnider123

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Craig, excellent information, thank you very much.

Regarding the touch-pad resistor, I was told (maybe incorrectly) that without it, you may have pocket firing in a pocket with change or keys in it. Now that I think about it, it would still fire in the pocket even with the resistor :) That is a good reason for having a master switch, to prevent accidental firing.
 

xLowEndx

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Sorry it took so long to post :facepalm:

This was just a trial to see if my set up would leak, AND IT DOESN'T! Not even a little!
I consider this my prototype which I gifted after about a week of use. Today and tomorrow I'll be constructing my on-board charging juice feeder for my gf. The attached pics are the prototype:

first juice feeder.jpg
first juice feeder internals.jpg


Please don't hate on the soldering / epoxy / wiring. One more time, it's just the test for the feeding system. The "push hole" was enlarged to make it a little easier to push.
 
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