Hello Everyone, I am LessLoveLess.
This post is quite long, i have seperated it into..
TLDR - too long didnt read
STLDR - Still too long didnt read
WTLDRAL - Way too long didnt read at all
and JWTKEKTB - Just want to know experiment K thanks Bye.
Feel free to read as you wish and bounce around as you must, much of this is explaining where i come from in hopes some of you out there might understand what im feeling, or know what may be causing this..and the experiment/monitoring ive done to see whats going on so far.
to the post:
So i started vaping about 2 years ago..with the standard ego batteries and the top down atomizers, ViVi Novas..i think they were called. I vaped on that for a long time, and then moved on to a Vamo v2 with a vivi nova on it, then switched to carto's...and some time after that i switched to bottom fed atomizers with a cheap disposable, and then to kangers infamous "pro tank", then my vamo broke and i moved back to a VV Ego style battery, switched between them for a long time. Then came across box mods, and went to the MVP with a Kanger Aero tank 1, switched to the KAnger Aero tank 2, when that broke i moved to Aspire, with the nautilous, and then my MVP broke so i moved to another box mod, and then back to the Vamo, v3. And then to Mechanical mods, with a rebuildable Smoktech RSST, .2 dual coil rebuildable. at this point, i had already gone through every mix in 10% intervals of PG/VG liquid, and every nicotine level from 32, down. This includes 100% PG and 100% VG liquid.
Since where i left off, i have gone through every subohm tank that is not a dripper, and used a every quality level of mechanical mod, and my latest was a Kanger Sub tank at .5 on an Eleaf 30 watt. Currently i am back to an ego style for the moment with an aero tank on top.
I started buying flavorless liquid off of the net from multiple companies and flavoring myself, as i found i can buy essentially a 2liter coke bottle full of liquid for 40 bucks...as opposed to 5-6 dollars per 10ml bottle from a shop. Though ive tried both premium and non premium and pre mixed and mixed in front of me liquid in a shop. The liquid i buy online comes with test strips for all of the bad things you need to look for in liquid before you vape it.
The only liquid i have yet to try is WTA based liquid, or liquid that still contains the MAOI, leading it to be a very mild anti depressant. Its price and the fact that noone talks about whether or not it works without quoting marketing material, is what keeps me away from it. I have tried CBD liquid, and while on a subtank it can calm me down at high wattage, its very unlikely, and has no throat hit. It is not to me, worth its cost. A 30ML bottle here, will buy me 2 2 liter coke bottles full of liquid. To me, it is a scam.
TLDR::
You may be wondering why i just typed out my past for all of this, and for those who are... I explain so you have a comparison to yourself. One thing i left out, is i practically breathe vape. maybe 40% vape to 60% air during the day. though some peaceful days, its more like 20%vape to 80% air.
I have read many forums here, and in other places, and marketing material, and studies relating to vaping. I have also looked up what PG and VG turn into inside of the body after being absorbed, and looked to find others experiencing my problem, and the "Fixes" listed everywhere..
I have tried 100% PG liquid as since VG turns to sugar essentially after being absorbed in the body, i wanted to see if i had developed some sort of extremely low tolerance for sugar, and was having a reaction to constantly putting sugar in my body. I was wrong, that did not resolve the issue, or help.
I have tried 100% VG liquid since that seems to be the GOTO answer for most people, even though it does turn to sugar.. This did not help, and removed a chunk of the throat hit i was getting...as such it lead me to vape more, further increasing my issues, which ill get to in a moment.
I have tried every mix in between, in 10% intervals, of PG/VG mixes, to see which i tended to lean to for slightly reduced symptoms, and it seems 100% PG lessens them every so slightly.
I have tried CBD liquid to attempt an introduction of an antidepressant into my liquid, at every PG/VG mix, and nicotine level. It seemed to have no effect.
I have tried every level of nicotine available to me, in 1MG increments, from 32 (where i started) down. It does seem, like reducing the nicotine helps, it does reduce my symptoms, but not completely unless i am at 0% nicotine, which i cannot maintain, as it does not possess a throat hit.
I have tried pure mixes of PG and VG and Nicotine, as to reduce the opertunity for any other chemical to be inside of my liquid, to no success, and no reduction in symptoms.
I have tried increading my water intake to extreme and not so much levels, in varying increments, many times reaching more than the daily requirement of water, based on my weight, not the generally accepted folk wisdom. Also taking into account the various dehydration factors inside of my diet to increase the amount of water i am taking in. This reduces symptoms, but not as much as youd think. And the symptom reduction, is determined by my anxiety levels at the time, and is on a one hour timer. No matter how much i consume of water, it remains to be the case, that the symptoms will return in an hour.
STLDR:
Interestingly, switching back to cigarettes reduces all negative symptoms caused by vaping to 0 after 2 hours away from the vape. though, if at any point i switch back to vaping, symptoms return within 5 puffs, and last for 2 hours, even if i put it down after those 5 puffs.
Just as interesting, SNUS, camel, and mint, seems to reduce all symptoms to 0 and keep them there, even if done constantly throughout the entire day, regardless of strength of the snus (lite or large).
Stopping entirely reduces all symptoms to 0 as well.
At any point during any of those three things, all symptoms return within 5 puffs, and last for 2 hours, regardless of tank, liquid, water consumption, flavor (i vape flavorless, no flavor liquid added at all), battery, voltage, wattage, PG, VG, or nicotine level.
Reducing how often i vape (5 puffs vs 10, vs 20, vs 1 or 2) reduces symptoms in kind, though initial symptoms start at 1 puff, and are immediately noticable within 30 seconds as long as nicotine is present, and the symptoms are still negative enough to not be tolerable.
WTLDRAL:
My symptoms are as follows..
Gagging. (this is almost constant)
Coughing.
Extreme Fatigue.
Loss of passion.
Depression.
Anxiety.
Delusional thought processes. (similar to an extreme case of ADHD, i have ADHD)
Feeling of being out of breath.
Feeling of being sick to my stomach.
Being lethargic.
No longer caring about things i used to love doing.
Emotionally numb.
Food cravings.
Delusional Abandonment issues.
Paranoia.
Extreme Social anxiety.
Delusional fear of future events. (paranoia)
Delusional fear of eventual betrayal from once close friends and family.
All of these symptoms have slowly appeared since i began vaping 2 years ago. All of these symptoms vanish when i stop for 2 hours. All of these symptoms come back when i take 1-5 puffs in varying degrees, they are all present, though generally vary in intensity, based on how much ive vaped. No factor in changing my vaping has changed this. And only recently, have i begun to link any of this to vaping. Only recently when i was asked to slow down or stop vaping did i notice that when i did, ALL of those symptoms ive experienced this past 2 years, have vanished. and only when i stopped did i notice that they ALL come back when i barely vape at all.
That lead me to trying a cigerette and realizing they dont come back with that.
and then out of concern for health, to snus, and realizing those symptoms remain absent regardless of quantity of Smoke or Snus, they do not return.
What im here posting.. is a question. Has anyone noticed changes like this, when they were forced to stop. Has anyone experienced problems like these that theyve noticed. Have any of you really looked at any problems youve recently gained, and thought that they may be tied to how much you vape?
Has anyone had these problems 2 years into vaping that im having?
Has anyone monitored themselves like this when they vape, and when they dont.
If not i encourage you to. When you feel that agitation coming on, in wanting to vape, try to change your mind into thinking its energy, like you just had a shot of pure caffiene, and your restless to use it. Not agitation, but energy, and with that, monitor yourself. The changes you feel.
I want to say i do believe vaping is the key to quitting smoking, and in no way am i saying that vaping is a bad thing. I do believe it may be healthier physically to switch to vaping vs other options, and no matter how much i smoke, or use snus, i can return to vaping and immediately quit, with no urge to go back.
If anyone has had these problems, and found what the cause was, i want to know.
To give you an example of a situation i closely monitored, let me tell you of last night.
I was out with my girlfriend, we were doing after christmasy stuff, and while we were running around i was using snus, as she doesnt want me to vape anymore, so i was sneaking snus. We saw Star Wars together in an IMAX, and we ran around getting her a new watch. We ran some errands, and ate out together, and weve been looking for a house together for a while now. We will be moving in together soon..but thats outside of this conversation so ill limit my rambling there.. I truely felt happy, full of energy, i could talk to her for hours, and i felt confident doing so. I had a million things to say to her, and i watched every moment of us together thinking about our future. Thinking about her, and how amazing she is, and how much i truly want to live with her. I was extremely happy, and didnt want her to go.
I took her home after the movie and on the way home we talked about living together, and her work. Things she had to do tomorrow and i was sad for her as she hates her job. I told her id always be there for her if she needed me and kissed her as she got out of my car to go home. On my way out I was still thinking about our future, awake, ready to progress, looking up houses on my way home. Happy..thinking only about her.
I took 2 puffs on my way home.
I was depressed, thinking about all the little things that went wrong during our date, worrying about our future, money issues..whether or not she knew i had snus, whether or not i did all the right things while we were sitting together in the theater, the times we were quiet for more than a minute. Worried about how much time id have left awake when i got home to watch various shows, and how much time i had left to catch up before i went back to work. Also, after those 2 puffs. I was tired. Lethargic. and momentarily, I had stopped thinking of anything good, everything was bad. Everything was stressful, i had so much to, no time to do it, and i was tired, overly so. Wishing i could sleep while driving, tired.
Also, i vaped the whole way home after those puffs, hard to put it down. I didnt care how happy we were during the whole day. I didnt care how much fun id had. I didnt care that the future could be good. Everything was just stress to me, and i wanted to sleep to get past it. I was actually vaping after that about every other breath. Then i went to sleep, woke up ,was happy, took 2 puffs, was tired, rolled over, went to sleep. much of the time while worried, and vaping, i was gagging, and keeping myself from getting sick.
We have a dramatic mind as a people, so when reading this your probably thinking of this as its all a drama, but it was very casual. I was stressed when just moments before i was as happy as i could have been. ITs no hyperbole, I just was, and then was not. I wasnt worried and then i was. I wasnt stressed, and then i was. Thats as simple as i can make it. When im not, im not. When i do, i am. I know now its probably time i should stop...
Any ideas guys, as to what could be causing this whole thing?
JWTKEKTB:
This monitoring ive done, i am curious to see other people do it to.
Just stop vaping, for 2 days. When you get the urge to vape, view it as energy, hype yourself up a little, and imagine youve taken pure energy and thats what your feeling. Dont view it as restless to vape, just restless to do something. And then go do something. and then after 2 days, take 5 puffs, and monitor for the changes in how you feel, monitor coldly, as if your watching yourself from the outside, and tell me what you notice it changes in you. Act as if you have no idea what its supposed to do, and then see what you notice that it actually does to you.
It could be a dumb idea of mine. but i truely would like to know how it effects you all as well, like you now know how it effects me. I may just be a worst case scenario...
This post is quite long, i have seperated it into..
TLDR - too long didnt read
STLDR - Still too long didnt read
WTLDRAL - Way too long didnt read at all
and JWTKEKTB - Just want to know experiment K thanks Bye.
Feel free to read as you wish and bounce around as you must, much of this is explaining where i come from in hopes some of you out there might understand what im feeling, or know what may be causing this..and the experiment/monitoring ive done to see whats going on so far.
to the post:
So i started vaping about 2 years ago..with the standard ego batteries and the top down atomizers, ViVi Novas..i think they were called. I vaped on that for a long time, and then moved on to a Vamo v2 with a vivi nova on it, then switched to carto's...and some time after that i switched to bottom fed atomizers with a cheap disposable, and then to kangers infamous "pro tank", then my vamo broke and i moved back to a VV Ego style battery, switched between them for a long time. Then came across box mods, and went to the MVP with a Kanger Aero tank 1, switched to the KAnger Aero tank 2, when that broke i moved to Aspire, with the nautilous, and then my MVP broke so i moved to another box mod, and then back to the Vamo, v3. And then to Mechanical mods, with a rebuildable Smoktech RSST, .2 dual coil rebuildable. at this point, i had already gone through every mix in 10% intervals of PG/VG liquid, and every nicotine level from 32, down. This includes 100% PG and 100% VG liquid.
Since where i left off, i have gone through every subohm tank that is not a dripper, and used a every quality level of mechanical mod, and my latest was a Kanger Sub tank at .5 on an Eleaf 30 watt. Currently i am back to an ego style for the moment with an aero tank on top.
I started buying flavorless liquid off of the net from multiple companies and flavoring myself, as i found i can buy essentially a 2liter coke bottle full of liquid for 40 bucks...as opposed to 5-6 dollars per 10ml bottle from a shop. Though ive tried both premium and non premium and pre mixed and mixed in front of me liquid in a shop. The liquid i buy online comes with test strips for all of the bad things you need to look for in liquid before you vape it.
The only liquid i have yet to try is WTA based liquid, or liquid that still contains the MAOI, leading it to be a very mild anti depressant. Its price and the fact that noone talks about whether or not it works without quoting marketing material, is what keeps me away from it. I have tried CBD liquid, and while on a subtank it can calm me down at high wattage, its very unlikely, and has no throat hit. It is not to me, worth its cost. A 30ML bottle here, will buy me 2 2 liter coke bottles full of liquid. To me, it is a scam.
TLDR::
You may be wondering why i just typed out my past for all of this, and for those who are... I explain so you have a comparison to yourself. One thing i left out, is i practically breathe vape. maybe 40% vape to 60% air during the day. though some peaceful days, its more like 20%vape to 80% air.
I have read many forums here, and in other places, and marketing material, and studies relating to vaping. I have also looked up what PG and VG turn into inside of the body after being absorbed, and looked to find others experiencing my problem, and the "Fixes" listed everywhere..
I have tried 100% PG liquid as since VG turns to sugar essentially after being absorbed in the body, i wanted to see if i had developed some sort of extremely low tolerance for sugar, and was having a reaction to constantly putting sugar in my body. I was wrong, that did not resolve the issue, or help.
I have tried 100% VG liquid since that seems to be the GOTO answer for most people, even though it does turn to sugar.. This did not help, and removed a chunk of the throat hit i was getting...as such it lead me to vape more, further increasing my issues, which ill get to in a moment.
I have tried every mix in between, in 10% intervals, of PG/VG mixes, to see which i tended to lean to for slightly reduced symptoms, and it seems 100% PG lessens them every so slightly.
I have tried CBD liquid to attempt an introduction of an antidepressant into my liquid, at every PG/VG mix, and nicotine level. It seemed to have no effect.
I have tried every level of nicotine available to me, in 1MG increments, from 32 (where i started) down. It does seem, like reducing the nicotine helps, it does reduce my symptoms, but not completely unless i am at 0% nicotine, which i cannot maintain, as it does not possess a throat hit.
I have tried pure mixes of PG and VG and Nicotine, as to reduce the opertunity for any other chemical to be inside of my liquid, to no success, and no reduction in symptoms.
I have tried increading my water intake to extreme and not so much levels, in varying increments, many times reaching more than the daily requirement of water, based on my weight, not the generally accepted folk wisdom. Also taking into account the various dehydration factors inside of my diet to increase the amount of water i am taking in. This reduces symptoms, but not as much as youd think. And the symptom reduction, is determined by my anxiety levels at the time, and is on a one hour timer. No matter how much i consume of water, it remains to be the case, that the symptoms will return in an hour.
STLDR:
Interestingly, switching back to cigarettes reduces all negative symptoms caused by vaping to 0 after 2 hours away from the vape. though, if at any point i switch back to vaping, symptoms return within 5 puffs, and last for 2 hours, even if i put it down after those 5 puffs.
Just as interesting, SNUS, camel, and mint, seems to reduce all symptoms to 0 and keep them there, even if done constantly throughout the entire day, regardless of strength of the snus (lite or large).
Stopping entirely reduces all symptoms to 0 as well.
At any point during any of those three things, all symptoms return within 5 puffs, and last for 2 hours, regardless of tank, liquid, water consumption, flavor (i vape flavorless, no flavor liquid added at all), battery, voltage, wattage, PG, VG, or nicotine level.
Reducing how often i vape (5 puffs vs 10, vs 20, vs 1 or 2) reduces symptoms in kind, though initial symptoms start at 1 puff, and are immediately noticable within 30 seconds as long as nicotine is present, and the symptoms are still negative enough to not be tolerable.
WTLDRAL:
My symptoms are as follows..
Gagging. (this is almost constant)
Coughing.
Extreme Fatigue.
Loss of passion.
Depression.
Anxiety.
Delusional thought processes. (similar to an extreme case of ADHD, i have ADHD)
Feeling of being out of breath.
Feeling of being sick to my stomach.
Being lethargic.
No longer caring about things i used to love doing.
Emotionally numb.
Food cravings.
Delusional Abandonment issues.
Paranoia.
Extreme Social anxiety.
Delusional fear of future events. (paranoia)
Delusional fear of eventual betrayal from once close friends and family.
All of these symptoms have slowly appeared since i began vaping 2 years ago. All of these symptoms vanish when i stop for 2 hours. All of these symptoms come back when i take 1-5 puffs in varying degrees, they are all present, though generally vary in intensity, based on how much ive vaped. No factor in changing my vaping has changed this. And only recently, have i begun to link any of this to vaping. Only recently when i was asked to slow down or stop vaping did i notice that when i did, ALL of those symptoms ive experienced this past 2 years, have vanished. and only when i stopped did i notice that they ALL come back when i barely vape at all.
That lead me to trying a cigerette and realizing they dont come back with that.
and then out of concern for health, to snus, and realizing those symptoms remain absent regardless of quantity of Smoke or Snus, they do not return.
What im here posting.. is a question. Has anyone noticed changes like this, when they were forced to stop. Has anyone experienced problems like these that theyve noticed. Have any of you really looked at any problems youve recently gained, and thought that they may be tied to how much you vape?
Has anyone had these problems 2 years into vaping that im having?
Has anyone monitored themselves like this when they vape, and when they dont.
If not i encourage you to. When you feel that agitation coming on, in wanting to vape, try to change your mind into thinking its energy, like you just had a shot of pure caffiene, and your restless to use it. Not agitation, but energy, and with that, monitor yourself. The changes you feel.
I want to say i do believe vaping is the key to quitting smoking, and in no way am i saying that vaping is a bad thing. I do believe it may be healthier physically to switch to vaping vs other options, and no matter how much i smoke, or use snus, i can return to vaping and immediately quit, with no urge to go back.
If anyone has had these problems, and found what the cause was, i want to know.
To give you an example of a situation i closely monitored, let me tell you of last night.
I was out with my girlfriend, we were doing after christmasy stuff, and while we were running around i was using snus, as she doesnt want me to vape anymore, so i was sneaking snus. We saw Star Wars together in an IMAX, and we ran around getting her a new watch. We ran some errands, and ate out together, and weve been looking for a house together for a while now. We will be moving in together soon..but thats outside of this conversation so ill limit my rambling there.. I truely felt happy, full of energy, i could talk to her for hours, and i felt confident doing so. I had a million things to say to her, and i watched every moment of us together thinking about our future. Thinking about her, and how amazing she is, and how much i truly want to live with her. I was extremely happy, and didnt want her to go.
I took her home after the movie and on the way home we talked about living together, and her work. Things she had to do tomorrow and i was sad for her as she hates her job. I told her id always be there for her if she needed me and kissed her as she got out of my car to go home. On my way out I was still thinking about our future, awake, ready to progress, looking up houses on my way home. Happy..thinking only about her.
I took 2 puffs on my way home.
I was depressed, thinking about all the little things that went wrong during our date, worrying about our future, money issues..whether or not she knew i had snus, whether or not i did all the right things while we were sitting together in the theater, the times we were quiet for more than a minute. Worried about how much time id have left awake when i got home to watch various shows, and how much time i had left to catch up before i went back to work. Also, after those 2 puffs. I was tired. Lethargic. and momentarily, I had stopped thinking of anything good, everything was bad. Everything was stressful, i had so much to, no time to do it, and i was tired, overly so. Wishing i could sleep while driving, tired.
Also, i vaped the whole way home after those puffs, hard to put it down. I didnt care how happy we were during the whole day. I didnt care how much fun id had. I didnt care that the future could be good. Everything was just stress to me, and i wanted to sleep to get past it. I was actually vaping after that about every other breath. Then i went to sleep, woke up ,was happy, took 2 puffs, was tired, rolled over, went to sleep. much of the time while worried, and vaping, i was gagging, and keeping myself from getting sick.
We have a dramatic mind as a people, so when reading this your probably thinking of this as its all a drama, but it was very casual. I was stressed when just moments before i was as happy as i could have been. ITs no hyperbole, I just was, and then was not. I wasnt worried and then i was. I wasnt stressed, and then i was. Thats as simple as i can make it. When im not, im not. When i do, i am. I know now its probably time i should stop...
Any ideas guys, as to what could be causing this whole thing?
JWTKEKTB:
This monitoring ive done, i am curious to see other people do it to.
Just stop vaping, for 2 days. When you get the urge to vape, view it as energy, hype yourself up a little, and imagine youve taken pure energy and thats what your feeling. Dont view it as restless to vape, just restless to do something. And then go do something. and then after 2 days, take 5 puffs, and monitor for the changes in how you feel, monitor coldly, as if your watching yourself from the outside, and tell me what you notice it changes in you. Act as if you have no idea what its supposed to do, and then see what you notice that it actually does to you.
It could be a dumb idea of mine. but i truely would like to know how it effects you all as well, like you now know how it effects me. I may just be a worst case scenario...
