Idea for atomiser cleaning (die-hard version)

[kinabaloo]

Sun - get the one which is phosphoric acid.

The ice maker is the cold smoke fog machine ('dry ice'), not real ice.

A quick rinsse under tap will be ok. Then distilled water wash.

Interestingly, found this link advocating vinegar for cleaning a fog machine (a fog machine being closest to a vaporizer as uses PG / VG the same; only the scale is different): Theatre Effects - Cleaning Fog Machines (Not!)
Of course, fog machines for discos etc dont have flavourings and the vinegar is just to wash out sticky VG, not really burned on deposits like we have. Colas, vinegar and lemons only work after a week or two's use, not months.

The cleaner with the high % of phosphoric acid is our best hope.

 

[Sun Vaporer]

Sun - get the one which is phosphoric acid.

The ice maker is the cold smoke fog machine, not real ice.

A quick rinsse under tap will be ok. Then distilled water wash.

Interestingly, found this link advocating vinegar for cleaning a fog machine (a fog machine being closest to a vaporizer as uses PG / VG the same; only the scale is different): Theatre Effects - Cleaning Fog Machines (Not!)

The cleaner with the high % of phosphoric acid is our best hope.

Kinabaloo--I spoke at lenght with this fellow about what I am doing with the product. He said that it is a 75% phosphoric acid and water mix that is run through the entire Ice Maker where the water flows and runs over the heating coils to clean them. He said that it takes the carbon build up on the coils and flushes them right off. The Ice Maker is then purged clean with water and all the gunk runs out. He stated that it is very safe once rinsed as the water is hooked back up and Ice is started to be made again. So it rinses out clean otherwise the Ice would be tainted. I did not know this, but he said if you have ever had Ice out of an Ice Machine or bought Ice--you have come into "contact' so to speak with this product as it is standard in the industry---now lets see if it will work with our coils. It is a 40 minute drive to get it --but well worth it to give it a try--------Hope to report tomm late night----Sun

 

[kinabaloo]

There are some wild claims about cola, such as this one that says 55% phosphoric acid in cola and a ph of 2.6 Clearly wrong : Cola

This site debunks some of the myths and puts the phosphoric acid level at 2.5% which sounds right : snopes.com: Coca-Cola Acids

So the solution you will get tomorrow is about 30 times stronger than cola !! That's why I am hopeful

In fact it's even stronger than a freshly squeezed lime

 

[RjG]

heh?... but an ice maker has no carbon on any coil... I grew up in in the bar/tavern business, and cleaned my ice machines almost monthly for years. The cleaner cleans mineral deposits and other slime off the ice rack, and from the supply and circulation pipes. The heater (which is just the cooling compressor running in reverse) has coils in the rack. The condenser fins (if it's not a water cooled compressor) get coated with dust/grime etc whatever is floating around. But nothing ever gets hot enough to get coated with carbon of any kind though.

Still, even with the misinformation the guy gave you, the strong acid might do the trick, I encourage more experiments

-

on a different note - when soldering atomizer coils, I found you have to use acid core solder (ie acid flux) to tin the nichrome. I was amazed to see the end of the nichrome wire vanish in a flash when the acid core solder touched it. Just mentioning it - since that's fairly strong acid @ 75% - it might make some ( or all, lol ) of the coil disappear eek

 

[kinabaloo]

It's strong in terms of concentration but chemicaly not strong enough to disolve the nichrome i would guess.

But if the only solution (lol) to the deposit also dissolves the wire then the answer is new coils, and RjG is the poneer here i believe. Nichrome is cheap stuff. But it's fiddly work and the soldering with special flux and slver solder means it will not be an easy way forward for everyone if the dreaded ban comes.

 

[Sun Vaporer]

heh?... but an ice maker has no carbon on any coil... I grew up in in the bar/tavern business, and cleaned my ice machines almost monthly for years. The cleaner cleans mineral deposits and other slime off the ice rack, and from the supply and circulation pipes. The heater (which is just the cooling compressor running in reverse) has coils in the rack. The condenser fins (if it's not a water cooled compressor) get coated with dust/grime etc whatever is floating around. But nothing ever gets hot enough to get coated with carbon of any kind though.

Still, even with the misinformation the guy gave you, the strong acid might do the trick, I encourage more experiments

-

on a different note - when soldering atomizer coils, I found you have to use acid core solder (ie acid flux) to tin the nichrome. I was amazed to see the end of the nichrome wire vanish in a flash when the acid core solder touched it. Just mentioning it - since that's fairly strong acid @ 75% - it might make some ( or all, lol ) of the coil disappear eek

RJG--that was my first question about what we are cleaning and he stated that here in Florida the water has very nasty garbage in it--NOBODY in Florida drinks tap water--the mineral and sufpher build up is gross and the stuff that i clean out of my facets is black buit up crude--so I do not think he was blowing me smoke--as a matter of fact, because I am not in the business, he was not even going to sell it to me until i explained what I was trying to do and he has been in the business for 30 years--so I will take his word for it as I know what comes out when I clean my facet and shower heads----Sun

 

[Sun Vaporer]

It's strong in terms of concentration but chemicaly not strong enough to disolve the nichrome i would guess.

But if the only solution (lol) to the deposit also dissolves the wire then the answer is new coils, and RjG is the poneer here i believe. Nichrome is cheap stuff. But it's fiddly work and the soldering with special flux and slver solder means it will not be an easy way forward for everyone if the dreaded ban comes.

Kinabaloo--It says right on the bottle and in the specs that it will not hurt any metal parts so you are right on point there-----Sun

 

[kinabaloo]

Nobody should drink tap water. It kills tropical fish. That's just the chlorine; killing all your friendly gut bacteria, but it keeps big pharma in work.

 

[RjG]

oh, without a doubt it will dissolve ALL mineral stuff - for sure, I agree 100%

I also have high hopes for your chemical as well !

Just there's no carbon buildup in ice machines - that was my only point )

 

[StoneE4]

Stone--I found a vendor that has this product and am going to get it tommorrow--I plan on not heating it as I do not think it will need heat to remove the residue--just a soaking and a full and long rinsing. ----I think that this might work. I did not know that they cleaned ice makers--so it has to be safe to use otherwise the ice would be tainted ---we will see Tomm when I report---Sun

Sounds good.
I agree, this product shouldn't need any heating in order to break up the gunk on the atomizer coil. My main concern about the heat was making sure the cleaner is completely rinsed out of the atomizer before anyone takes a toke off of it.
Hopefully, this stuff will work as well on the atomizer gunk as it does on the scale deposits in ice makers. If so, we may be in luck.

Just so you know, most of the Nu-Calgon products, including the Liquid Ice Machine Cleaner should be readily available at any HVAC/Refrigeration supply store and maybe even at some Appliance Parts stores (as many of them sell parts/supplies for ice makers). I figured I'd metion this in case you have one of those stores a little closer to your location than the place you plan to purchase it from.

 

[kinabaloo]

But remember than the only known solvent for carbon is liquid iron - and that would be difficult to rinse off!

The phosphoric acid will react with the minerals in the gunk and hopefully thereby weaken it enough for he rest to fall off when it is fired up again. So dont worry if the gunk appears still there at first. Use aworking atomizer because heating up the coil afterwards is required to break off the weakened gunk.

 

[Sun Vaporer]

Sounds good.
I agree, this product shouldn't need any heating in order to break up the gunk on the atomizer coil. My main concern about the heat was making sure the cleaner is completely rinsed out of the atomizer before anyone takes a toke off of it.
Hopefully, this stuff will work as well on the atomizer gunk as it does on the scale deposits in ice makers. If so, we may be in luck.

Just so you know, most of the Nu-Calgon products, including the Liquid Ice Machine Cleaner should be readily available at any HVAC/Refrigeration supply store and maybe even at some Appliance Parts stores (as many of them sell parts/supplies for ice makers). I figured I'd metion this in case you have one of those stores a little closer to your location than the place you plan to purchase it from.

Thanks for ringing in Stone--I called every place i could to find this stuff --everyone else sells a much stronger version that has the phosphoric acid and another product in it as the water is so bad here in Florida that they all told me they need a stonger version called Super Cool made by Specialty Chemical (Diversitech Corp)--I only want to use the FDA food grade appoved one--found a store 40 minutes from me that had it --that is the reason for the long haul tomm.-----Sun

 

[StoneE4]

heh?... but an ice maker has no carbon on any coil... I grew up in in the bar/tavern business, and cleaned my ice machines almost monthly for years. The cleaner cleans mineral deposits and other slime off the ice rack, and from the supply and circulation pipes...

That's the whole point of me mentioning this product in the first place... It cleans scale (aka mineral deposits) and may also clean this carbon off of the atomizers.

*Edit* - Disregard this post... You covered it in post #89, RjG.

 

[Kendra]

I'm sorry-- I may have missed it, but what's VG?

 

[Sun Vaporer]

I'm sorry-- I may have missed it, but what's VG?

Kerry--Vegatable glycerin--Sun

 

[Kendra]

Thank you-- I never would have guessed.

 

[Kendra]

This may not be a good suggestion, but what about a petroleum based product like goo-gone or some other residue/adhesive remover? My mother used to work for that company years ago and I had so much goo gone and it worked on everything, it seemed. I'd be afraid to try it on my atomizers, though, because they're too valuable (!!!) and I don't know if someone here would immediately say no to anything petroleum based.

When I was looking something else up, I came across this. It says non-abrasive. . . do you think this would work?

 

[kinabaloo]

There is also mineral glycerine. Chemicaly identical but from petrochemicals and it is the minute amount of other chemicals that remain after processing that mean that VG is the G to use. IMHO

OAO

 

[Sun Vaporer]

This may not be a good suggestion, but what about a petroleum based product like goo-gone or some other residue/adhesive remover? My mother used to work for that company years ago and I had so much goo gone and it worked on everything, it seemed. I'd be afraid to try it on my atomizers, though, because they're too valuable (!!!) and I don't know if someone here would immediately say no to anything petroleum based.

kendra--we need something that is safe to use so that the atomizer is safe to use after we clean it--that is what we all are shooting for---Sun

 

[Kendra]

I understand. I just thought we could rinse it or cook it out. But it makes sense not to risk inhaling it.