If the BAN goes into effect?

[Adrenalynn]

>> You can't legally possess any pill you buy on-line that otherwise is not OTC.

That would be wrong.

The FDA's current policy on personal importation permits the exercise of enforcement discretion and to permit entry of an unapproved prescription drug if:

- the product is for personal use (a 90-day supply and not packaged or intended for resale)
- the intended use is for a serious condition for which effective treatment may not be available domestically
- there is no known commercialization or promotion to U.S. residents by those involved in the distribution of the product


>> A real underground/black market, like people on the street, isn't likely to happen because it's not like drugs.

Money = Market
Nonavailability_{[Prohibition]} + Money = Underground Market "people on the street" drink alcohol too. And yet the black market for alcohol during prohibition was near 100% saturation.

>> it's 4000x less unsafe 'compared' to tobacco.

Can you provide properly controlled studies for this unapproved health claim? Unapproved health claims = FDA banning, as we've seen in the supplement and exercise industry.

>> So to the OP just stop reading other forums that are missing the point and you won't worry so much.

Yes - by all means stop reading and educating yourself, using your own discretion, reason, and critical thinking skills to distinguish between hype and third-hand interpretation. It's a shame our educational institutions have not yet managed to stamp out that tremendously dangerous trait!

 

[Xenite]

The one good thing about e-cigs is that any attempted ban is ripe for legal challenges. First the government would have a hard time banning hardware because it can be used for multiple purposes. This is why certain items (not going to use the B word because of a certain over zealous board mod) are still legal in some states under the guise of tobacco pipes.

Second many people use e-cigs with liquid that contains no nicotine at all. Banning this would be up the alley of banning aroma therapy and incense, tricky at best.

The FDA's only real course of action is over the nicotine in the product, and again how can you legally ban a substance that is perfectly legal for adults to buy in other forms such as cigarettes, chewing tobacco, cigars, etc. Truth is, in the long run I believe the best they will end up with is regulation and taxation.

And finally even if such a ban was put into place I would love to see how the FDA plans to enforce such a ban on the DIY crowed or how they would enforce it on products being shipped in from Canada. Do they plan on inspecting every envelope and small package that passes through Canadian customs?

 

[Adrenalynn]

They'll manage to get the 3-15% (depending upon how generous the estimates) that they already get.

 

[mwa102464]

The Govt can even stop the Mexican drug trade coming into this country how the heck would they stop the selling of a PV, which isnt even ilegal and wont be its the Nic juice for that matter and that can so easily be axtracted and sold on the black market, its being sold now in reallity since Nic is actually a drug, think about that one folks, this ban is a big hype if you ask me

 

[Adrenalynn]

can so easily be axtracted

???

 

[mwa102464]

What are you saying Adrenalynn with that Ax

 

[mwa102464]

There are factories set up over seas that extract nic very easily

 

[Ravens Rose]

Ok, well NJ has already banned the use of e-cigs in public places and falls under the no smoking in public areas....

So the purpose of my question was really to see how far the government & FDA are really going to go with all of this. If the ban is just for "not using e-cigs in public places or selling to minors" I am fine with that. The part that I am questioning is about the fact the government is planning on banning the mailing of tobacco products, even though e-cigs contain no tobacco.. they want to include it in the ban.

 

[mwa102464]

Rose,

I think it Will come down to a final ruling with Judge Leon's case, however I still dont see how they would really stop the mailing of a PV seeing its only a tube with Batteries in it so I dont think this will happen, The main concern I have is with the Nic juice not PV's, Atty's or parts. Even if there is a ban on Nic juice I still see people mailing it anyways, if all these overseas pharmacies can mail just about any drug you want with no script and these drugs get through customs like they do it's relentless to think Nic juice wont get through as well. People can throw all the Ax's at me they want but my feelings stay the same that the Govt just wants there cut and is trying to find a way to tax this Vapor thing as tobacco which it isn't, but they will find a way to do it no matter what because they want there cut on this product as the deep pockets of big tobacco and there lobbyist dont like our vaping product digging into there pockets so they will try to ruin it for all of us vapors as much as they can. So sooner or later our great Govt will find a way to tax mist (vapor) what a joke. I mean what about people that dont use Nic in there vape and only vape a flavored mix, will they be paying a tax on there vapor, thats just crazy in my honest opinion but our great Govt will surely find a way to tax them too. It's really ashame that money is more important than saving lives in our Govt's eyes

 

[Ravens Rose]

@ mwa102464

I agree that this is all probably about the government wanting there cut.... I feel they just want to be able tax it to the hilt and get more money from us.

 

[mwa102464]

Rose,

I'm glad that we see eye to eye on this topic, I think it's very unfortunate that more TV Advertising isn't happening and these products aren't getting out there the way they really should be and made much more available to people who don't know about them so they could give this vaping a real try. It would surely be a improved quality of life for many over smoking Analogs. Off Topic: I also disagree with throwing Axe's at people and everyone should be able to have there own views & opinions and make there own choices in life without knocking others.

 

[GrannyM]

.....Off Topic: I also disagree with throwing Axe's at people and everyone should be able to have there own views & opinions and make there own choices in life without knocking others.

mwa,
Before this gets too crazy, I think you totally misunderstood 'lynn's post.

I believe she was just poking fun at the typo in your message:

Originally Posted by mwa102464
can so easily be axtracted (underline by me)

 

[Ravens Rose]

Rose,

I'm glad that we see eye to eye on this topic, I think it's very unfortunate that more TV Advertising isn't happening and these products aren't getting out there the way they really should be and made much more available to people who don't know about them so they could give this vaping a real try. It would surely be a improved quality of life for many over smoking Analogs. Off Topic: I also disagree with throwing Axe's at people and everyone should be able to have there own views & opinions and make there own choices in life without knocking others.

I do think that E-cigs need more advertising.... I know that I am new to this but I get a lot of strange looks when people see it. I had heard about e-cigs awhile ago but never looked into it. Just recently my mother was here and I saw a very quick commercial on a game show network, believe it or not. That is when I started to research it.

 

[mwa102464]

OOOOHHHHH GEEEZZZ, YUP I didn't catch that and it went right over my thick head, Thank you grannym thank you a bunch, I couldn't understand why that AX, now I'm laughing at that whole matter if thats what it was, I'm sure it was thx again Granny, and sorry Adrenalynn went right over my head what you where saying there with the Axe. I've been known for forgetting to spell check my postings at time, oops

 

[aubergine]

For anyone interested and who hasn't wandered there, the discussion in the Campaigning forum (E-Cigarette News --> SE, NJoy vs FDA, 2 threads) has been going on for a long while, and there are a few very savvy and dedicated persons over there who post regularly and provide daily updates and informed opinion on the issue as it unfolds (in between various rants).
I actually skimmed the whole damned thing (it's huge, but I speed-read) when I started vaping; it's a complicated issue/process and no one can be certain how it'll unfold, but it's worth following. Might be simplest to just run a search for Sun Vaporer's posts, just to get the gist w/o spending a week at it. Then the daily (slow) unwinding of the thing has context.

 

[aubergine]

Sorry, three threads now - the ones at the top.

 

[KnightStalker]

For anyone interested and who hasn't wandered there, the discussion in the Campaigning forum (E-Cigarette News --> SE, NJoy vs FDA, 2 threads) has been going on for a long while, and there are a few very savvy and dedicated persons over there who post regularly and provide daily updates and informed opinion on the issue as it unfolds (in between various rants).
I actually skimmed the whole damned thing (it's huge, but I speed-read) when I started vaping; it's a complicated issue/process and no one can be certain how it'll unfold, but it's worth following. Might be simplest to just run a search for Sun Vaporer's posts, just to get the gist w/o spending a week at it. Then the daily (slow) unwinding of the thing has context.

Very true and worth going through for anybody interested in what will happen. Either outcome, tobacco product, or drug/device will have a large impact on manufacturers and vendors alike.

 

[GrannyM]

I wasted a lot of money on cartos that are now upgraded and I have no use for anymore because the vapor production & flavor have deteriorated.

Yep, the regular old original cartos. I'm not sure how or why they deteriorated, but I can assure you they did Juice stored in a bottle doesn't expire till than, but I think cartos after awhile don't work as well (others have chimed in on this before). I've been vaping almost a year (I think I really don't keep track) I keep saying 7+ months because that's when I stopped counting. Also, one can assume that the cartos weren't fresh when I ordered them way back when. So that also comes into play. Also, the older batteries work best with the older cartos, which prob comes into play since I use are newer batteries.

If someone wanted to they can clean these out though and refill them as long as the older style regular cartos are satisfying for them. Just not my cup of tea.

Sorry to go OT, but just felt I had to reply here because my experience differs.

I'm wondering how one can measure if there is actual deterioration, or if perhaps it's just a perception? A lot of people have mentioned that once they started using the premium cartos, there was no going back to the regular cartos....just because the premiums (or coolcarts) give so much more satisfaction.

I still have a number of the regular cartos, some engraved with 10/2009 on the bottom. Most generally, I prefer them at 5v or 6v & that was my preference before I ever tried a premium. I have not noticed any "loss" in performance or deterioration in any of my older cartos.

That being said, I know everyone's experiences are different. I just think that maybe what is being perceived as deterioration is actually just less satisfaction now that improved cartos have been developed. And perhaps reason enough not to stockpile....you never know what improvements might be around the corner.

Just my

Now back to the regular program.

 

[LadyPhoenix]

It's already legal. Governor Schwarzenegger Terminates E Cigarette Ban in California


A real underground/black market, like people on the street, isn't likely to happen because it's not like drugs. e-cigs are used by normal, everyday people who want to improve their health @ a cost lower than tobacco suicide sticks. The biggies in tobacco would follow suit because e-cigs are classified as a tobacco product. If not it's discrimination by the choice to refuse to kill yourself. (suicide is against the law & so is complicancy in the suicide of another person - I don't think big tobacco wants that fight to be opened) + there are so many people who hate the tobacco companies whether they vape or not, imho, get rid of anything that requires needles to refill and the gov has a bigger investment in confiscating illicit drugs. And we can all happily get back to vaping.

Just wanted to comment on this remark, because my friend told me something the other day that I find astounding. She went to 'the city', which for us New Jerseyans means Manhattan. As she was walking around Times Square she was approached by some of those 'people on the street' as you put it, which we're used to seeing, trying to sell drugs or knock-off designer bags. But these people were selling cigarettes. Regular packs and cartons of Marlboro, Camel, Parliament, etc. Her friends that she was with were not surprised, because they buy their cigarettes off 'trucks' in Jersey City and pay $4.00/pack instead of $8.00.

So I am just about 100% certain that if there ever was a ban on e-cigs, there would be quite a few black market places to go get your e-cig hook-up.

 

[Xenite]

So I am just about 100% certain that if there ever was a ban on e-cigs, there would be quite a few black market places to go get your e-cig hook-up.

Buying liquid from China makes people nervous enough lol